<p>I will be applying to either the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill or Duke (NOT BOTH) for the Robertson Scholars Program. Since I am an international student seeking financial aid, I can't be applying to two schools that give little, if any, financial aid (at least for international students).</p>
<p>I understand that Duke is more selective (13% vs. 28%) and more prestigious, but does this apply for the Robertson Scholars Program? Would I have more chances if I applied to UNC?</p>
<p>Btw, these are some of my stats:</p>
<p>SAT - 2,020 (WILL BE TAKING IT AGAIN, WILL BE RAISING IT)
Math - 710
Reading - 660
Writing - 650</p>
<p>SAT SUBJECT TEST:</p>
<p>Math I - 730
US History - 700
Spanish - 800</p>
<p>AP's:</p>
<p>Psychology - 5
Spanish - 5
US History - 4
English Language - 4</p>
<p>EXTENSIVE EXTRACURRICULARS... Not worth listing... (i.e. Sports, student government, community service, nhs)</p>
<p>For FA purposes, without merit, I would encourage you to look at your aid packages without merit. To be blunt and honest, if your ECs aren’t worth listing, you are probably not a strong candidate for the Robertson. Robertson scholars that I’ve met are extraordinary (and humble!), but they distinguish themselves in a significant way.</p>
<p>FA-wise, for those who qualify, Duke offers better packages (for a family in the 70k range) than UNC. However, UNC, in my opinion, offers a wider range of merit scholarships. At Duke, merit scholarships exist, but you have to be a HYPS-level prospect.</p>
<p>Don’t be fooled by Carolina’s 28% overall admit rate. The in-state rate for NC residents is around 35%, but OOS is pretty close to Duke’s in the low teens.</p>
<p>UNC will not give internationals much, if any, need-based aid. Duke might provide some, but its sticker price is obviously much higher.</p>
<p>Frankly, based on the OP, I would say admission to either school is a reach. Merit scholarships are highly unlikely unless you happen to fall in a unique targeted group.</p>
<p>UNC OOS acceptance rate for 2013 was about 15%. The 28% quoted above includes in state students. My guess is that acceptance rate for international students at UNC is probably in the single digit range.</p>
<p>Isn’t the germane question the aggregate quality and potential of the relevant applicant pools, not the acceptance rate per se? X percent of mediocrity is not as compelling as Y percent of excellence, even if X < Y.</p>
<p>The extracurriculars are a rather important part of what the Robertson program looks at - they want folks who are not only going to excel in the classroom but who are also going to make an impact on the campuses, the state, and frankly, the world. Legitimate, significant contributions to your school and community seem to me to be somewhat of a pre-req for that program.</p>
<p>@TopTier - I agree that your proposed comparison is more compelling, but I have no idea how to measure it. Adcoms typically publish data on admitted students and enrolled freshmen, but I have never seen any school put out data concerning the applicant pool.</p>
<p>Your question also relates to the “qualified candidate” versus the “competitive candidate”. Even after adcoms at selective universities throw out all the unqualified candidates, there are still going to be many remaining applicants who are non-competitive. How big is the competitive pool at any highly selective university?</p>
<p>@rmldad: The issues you highlight are very important. I can only discuss Duke, not its relatively few peer institutions. However, perhaps 85+ percent of the approximately 32K undergraduate applicants for each recent class are entirely qualified – they would generally succeed at Duke if matriculated. I base this conclusion on decades of senior volunteer leadership experiences – and directly pertinent detailed briefings – including years as an Admissions interviewer, as an Alumni Association VP, and as a member of the Annual Fund Executive Committee. Approximated, but relevant, numbers follow:
31.8K applicants
27.0K qualified (roughly estimated, but satisfactory to illustrate the pattern)
3.65K accepted
1.73K matriculated</p>
<p>Duke is committed to an undergraduate class size of approximately 1,725 students. This is quite unlikely to change, especially in the near term. The size and especially the quality (for the Class of '17, ~11 percent accepted and ~45.5 yield) of each subsequent application-pool improves, with hundreds of valedictorians and/or 2400 point SAT achieves denied admission. This creates a situation where MANY exceptional high school seniors are not accepted, simply due to the foregoing, mandatory “arithmetic,” rather than to any real deficiencies.</p>