<p>Thanks so much! However, none of the colleges (The U, UNT, NYU, Oberlin, UT) you suggest has a contemporary popular music program. Depending on which university, several of which have music conservatories, they do have wonderful programs for those wishing to pursue jazz studies, opera/art vocals or jazz vocals. Re: Tennessee, I’d also heard that Middle Tennessee State might have a pop music program, but no, jazz. But thanks again.</p>
<p>You’re mistaken; Miami does indeed have a popular music program. </p>
<p>[Bruce</a> Hornsby Creative American Music Program | Bruce Hornsby Creative American Music Program | Frost | Frost School of Music](<a href=“http://www.miami.edu/frost/index.php/hornsby/]Bruce”>Frost School of Music - University of Miami)</p>
<p>Hi, and thanks! Always glad for the double check. This thread is devoted to finding all colleges offering, as noted in post #14, “popular music, non-jazz-focused, voice performance, degree programs.” None of the programs at Frost–however wonderful they are, and including the Hornsby–qualifies. Voice Performance: “Love orchestra, opera, chamber music, or jazz?” Jazz: “Studio Music and Jazz Vocal.” Hornsby (only a minor offered): “a groundbreaking new songwriting program” (writing, not vocals) “…interdisciplinary by nature, with courses from areas such as musicology, theory/composition, performance, media/industry, and jazz” (no primary focus on rock and pop vocals). Ramone Project (also not a major): “special residency program where the legendary producer, Phil Ramone, works with students from across the entire Frost School of Music to create a brand new musical.” So, for musicians <em>not</em> interested in “popular music, non-jazz-focused, voice performance, degree programs” (pop + non-jazz + voice performance + degree program, must have all four elements), Miami/Frost should be given prime consideration, as they cover almost everything spectacularly–just not popular, non-jazz-focused, voice performance. Which is what this list is restricted to. Its point is not to list those far-easier-to-find programs that provide alternatives to a voice program that focuses on rock, pop and contemporary, at most touching on other styles, or to find schools where you could “also” get some study in popular; it’s to locate those few, hard-to-find programs that provide just that course of study. I’ve found through looking at a couple hundred schools that, if your degree is in opera, that’s pretty much what you study, opera. If you’re in jazz, that’s pretty much what you study, jazz. Certainly in those programs there’s the occasional study of another style or two, and general music topics; similarly, here, the goal is to find the voice performance programs that might have the occasional study in another style or two, and includes general music topics, but pretty much focuses on popular.</p>
<p>Actually they do. A friend of mine just got back from Tennessee and Miami. Miami is the Bruce Hornsby Contemporary Performance Principal. </p>
<p>I made a mistake about Tennessee - it’s Tennessee State, not UT: The Commercial Music program at TSU is first and foremost a music degree, in which students study various careers and business practices of the music industry. Upon completion of the program, students receive a Bachelor of Science degree in Music with a Concentration in Commercial Music.</p>
<p>Also, I forgot Azusa Pacific in California. The others I didn’t save, so I’ll have to look it up later.</p>
<p>Even Pop/Rock performance degrees will have some music theory and a class or two of other types of music, and/or instruments - otherwise it is not a music degree but just pop/rock vocal training.</p>
<p>I’m a student at UMiami…I can personally attest to the fact that some of my classmates haven’t a classical bone in their body. 
Most I’ve met are guitarists, but I do know of a few contemporary vocalists. The only stipulation is that you must also be a songwriter and must major in either music engineering, music business, or commercial music production. Otherwise, creative American music students take contemporary studio lessons and a set of special songwriting classes in addition to their classical theory, etc.</p>
<p>Just chiming in to say that the Clive Davis program at NYU does indeed qualify as a contemporary performance program for students on that particular track within it - my son (USC) is friends with a couple of them.</p>
<p>But I also wanted to add that my son recently purposely left his USC career (that he’s enrolled, period) OFF a resume for a fairly major touring gig he’s up for. He felt in this instance (and in others) it could hurt more than help him to be seen as a music “student.” In the world of rock/pop music, my son has convinced me that nobody really cares about a piece of paper or where it’s from. Rather, it’s the experience, music education and connections from the place the paper came from that can make a difference. Any great opportunities the kids in his program (Raddad’s included) have gotten have come from their “having the goods” and perhaps some connection/contact/exposure from program itself, not just saying they attend or graduated from this program. (Although the touring gig mentioned above came from a non-USC referral.) There’s definitely a distinction from this and more traditional career tracks where the “piece of paper” opens doors. I hope that makes sense!</p>
<p>^Jazz/shreddermom – I agree with your assessment of Clive Davis program, as it was one of the one’s my son considered and seemed very well suited to contemporary musicians ;)</p>
<p>I’m a little uncertain about what brednan’s dad is trying to “narrow out” of this program list. Eg. I think his criteria is a “pure” rock VOCAL concentration as opposed to a degree that includes production elements such as Clive Davis.</p>
<p>Do I have that right, Brendan’s Dad?</p>
<p>If that’s the case, however, I think some schools on your list are in error. For example, you simply don’t get out of Humber without exposure to production experience and there’s really no such thing as a degree that’s rock vocals only WITHOUT other contemporary elements, as I understand it.</p>
<p>I guess one question I have is what TYPE of degree do you mean? BA with vocal major? BMUS with vocal perf major? BFA?</p>
<p>I predict you might also find that true of Belmont, USC, Berklee and Columbia, so in THAT case…not sure why some very highly regarded contemporary music programs like Miami and NYU/Clive Davis wouldn’t be included on the list…perhaps I am confusing an issue here.</p>
<p>Hi, thanks all. Yes, this list is for vocals–the primary purpose of the degree has to be vocals. So again the essentials are:</p>
<ul>
<li>voice track</li>
<li>performance based</li>
<li>degree (or certificate) program</li>
<li>with the huge majority of classes focusing on popular music (primarily rock and pop, but other contemporary styles like hip-hop, world, usw can be included)</li>
<li>and so has minimal or zero jazz required</li>
</ul>
<p>I’m not picking on jazz; it’s just that at jazz schools that say they’re 'jazz and contemporary" the ‘huge majority’ of classes are on jazz, not rock/pop.</p>
<p>The list is also focused on performance degrees–so programs focused on mogul studies or on songwriting aren’t fits. You can have mogul studies, and you can have songwriting–in small number.</p>
<p>Again, the purpose of the list is not to find alternatives to rock/pop vocal programs, programs at which you could “also take rock and pop, or have a band on the side”; it’s to find those few degree programs at which a singer can <em>focus</em> on performing rock and pop, and–secondarily–take the other usual music classes. If you take opera, you take opera courses, and secondarily music courses. If you take jazz, you take jazz courses, and secondarily music courses. So this list is to provide users with that little list of schools at which you can take rock and pop <em>vocal</em> courses–and secondarily other courses.</p>
<p>And thanks kmcmom13!</p>
<p>Hi, jazz/shreddermom. Interesting about your son. Could you look at post #18? Just scan for a post that seems interminable–that’s the one. In a way, your son’s decision to de-list his USC credit could put at rest my worries that, if a pop/rock vocalist attends one of the lesser-known, small-market programs, they’re at a sizable disadvantage to someone who can say “Berklee” or “Thornton”. (The USC program.) If the parchment doesn’t matter, then what’s the diff.</p>
<p>On the other hand, your son’s experience might be particular to playing in a band, not, say, working at UMG, BMG or EMI. (Which have vocalists working for them in goodly number, in the corporate ranks.) Or being a teacher at a high school or college. Usw. And, for a student who attends a lesser-known, small-market program, would they have had those connections similar to those that the USC students have right there in town, the labels up in Hollywood, the Whisky/Troubador/Roxy on the Strip. All of which would go to reinforce that worry.</p>
<p>I’d love to think it comes down to talent, smarts and abilities, but the first step is not showing off talent, smarts and abilities–it’s getting the chance to do that, getting the door to open. So what are your thoughts? Given the “exactly what are you going to do with that pop/rock vocal degree after college” problem almost all of such graduates will face, and the long odds of making it in any creative profession, do you think students–these contemporary vocal students overall, not just particular uber-talented students–who attend the “small schools” on the list are adding to their challenges? If a student–say your son–was accepted at Berklee or USC at $60K/yr. but also at Plain Label U for $25K/yr., what would your advice be?</p>
<p>Thanks again so much for all your posts, several of which have been critically valuable to us.</p>
<p>Hi, RoKr93, and thanks for your posts–from the inside, as it were. Although, yes, I am focusing on programs that are primarily (first and foremost) vocal (in rock/pop) programs, your post about Hornsby (like those about Clive Davis) have made me think that perhaps I should develop a split list. One part would fulfill the main intent–finding those few <em>vocal,</em> <em>performance,</em> <em>rock/pop,</em> <em>degree</em> programs that exist. But, though non-vocal, Hornsby in its way and Clive Davis in its present vocalists with unique definitely contemporary musical opportunities they might find intriguing. As vocalists.</p>
<p>Hi, megansmom, and thanks. Super. I’m adding Tennessee State. At least for now… :-)</p>
<p>As kmcmom13 notes: “I think some schools on your list are in error.” As I noted before, this is a tentative list; I’m hoping students at some of the schools will see this thread and say, “Yep, we’re a <em>vocal</em> <em>performance</em> <em>rock/pop</em> <em>degree</em> program.” Or say, “We’re not.”</p>
<p>And as I noted before I’m continuing not only to try to expand the list, with quite a few schools looking promising in the U.K.–but I’m also continuing to try to further vet those I’ve tentatively included. Using Tennessee State as an example: When I look at Tennessee State, I find it offers a Bachelor of Science degree in Music with a Concentration in Commercial Music. Promising. And then the site notes that students in the program can “pick one of three emphases: Business, Technology, or Performance.” Very promising. And then you come to the course of studies itself, at <a href=“Page Not Found”>Search Results - TSU. And it’s usually at that level that I become unsure. It’s not that all the courses are supposed to be pop/rock vocals; it’s that the majority of <em>vocals</em> classes are to be pop/rock. And at that level one can’t tell without the course catalog, to be able to look up each course number to see what that class covers specifically. But for now it seems like it could be a fit. And what regardless looks to be a tremendous music program for sure.</p>
<p>Likewise, Asuza Pacific has a Bachelor of Music with commercial music emphasis–and, even more promising, that emphasis offers a commercial vocal performance track. And four of the courses in that track are “commercial styles.” But, when you click through to those courses, one is jazz; another Broadway/pop; a third country, folk and Christian; and the fourth rock and R&B. Now, there are also four applied voice courses–two are opera/church music, two are sacred and secular. And there are two jazz vocal courses. So despite how the program looks at the high level once one drills down it does not seem to be a fit. Though a fine program to be sure.</p>
<p>I expect schools now in the list will drop out, too. I just need time–but in the meantime I want rising seniors and their parents to have the list of potential schools so they have something they can refine down. It’s so easy to find a bevy of opera voice programs to consider, a whole lotta jazz vocal programs to consider, a name-your-style voice program to consider. But not rock/pop. This is a “Little List” not meant for those contemporary music vocalists that would be happy enough in one of the other music programs, pursuing their pop/rock efforts primarily outside the classroom; it’s meant only for those that are determined to focus on rock/pop vocals outside and <em>inside</em> their classes, add to that the general music courses, and come out as best armed they can be to achieve their dreams as a rock/pop vocalist.</p>
<p>Updated list of ‘rock voice’ schools offering performance degrees:</p>
<p>Colleges:</p>
<p>Berklee College of Music, Boston, Mass.
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, Calif.
University of Colorado Denver, Denver, Colo.
Academy of Contemporary Music @ U Central Oklahoma, Oklahoma City, Okla.
Catawba College, Salisbury, N.C.
Santa Fe College of Art and Design, Santa Fe, N.M.
Belmont University, Nashville, Tenn.
McNally Smith College of Music, St. Paul, Minn.
Tiffin University, Tiffin, Ohio
Johnson State College, Johnson, Vt.
Western Oregon University, Monmouth, Ore.
Columbia College Chicago, Chicago, Ill.
Tennessee State, Nashville, Tenn.
Canada: Humber College, Toronto, Ontario
UK: Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts, Liverpool, England
UK: Leeds College of Music, Leeds, England
Down Under: University of Melbourne, Melbourne, Australia</p>
<p>Career Schools:</p>
<p>L.A. Music Academy, Pasadena, Calif.
Musicians Institute, Hollywood, Calif.
UK: Academy of Contemporary Music, Guildford, England</p>
<p>Updated list of ‘rock voice’ schools offering performance degrees:</p>
<p>Colleges:</p>
<p>Berklee College of Music, Boston, Mass.
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, Calif.
University of Colorado Denver, Denver, Colo.
Academy of Contemporary Music @ U Central Oklahoma, Oklahoma City, Okla.
Catawba College, Salisbury, N.C.
Santa Fe College of Art and Design, Santa Fe, N.M.
Belmont University, Nashville, Tenn.
McNally Smith College of Music, St. Paul, Minn.
Tiffin University, Tiffin, Ohio
Johnson State College, Johnson, Vt.
Western Oregon University, Monmouth, Ore.
Columbia College Chicago, Chicago, Ill.
Tennessee State, Nashville, Tenn.
Five Towns College, Dix Hills, N.Y.
Cornel School of Contemporary Music at Shepherd University, Los Angeles, Calif.
UK: Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts, Liverpool, England
UK: Leeds College of Music, Leeds, England
Down Under: University of Melbourne, Melbourne, Australia</p>
<p>Career Schools:</p>
<p>L.A. Music Academy, Pasadena, Calif.
Musicians Institute, Hollywood, Calif.
UK: Academy of Contemporary Music, Guildford, England</p>
<p>Unique Programs:</p>
<p>Clive Davis Institute of Recorded Music, New York University, New York, N.Y.
Bruce Hornsby Creative American Music Program, U Miami, Coral Gables, Fla.
Canada: Humber College, Toronto, Ontario</p>
<p>I think one of the problems I keep running into when thinking about this list is that its a bit like saying one wants to find a bfa program dedicated to the study of writing 20th century poetry, but not wanting course requirements in any other epoch or style of poetry, and then kind of lumping together schools on the opposite ends of rigor that have offerings called 20th century poetry, but that also vary wildly in actual curriculae. The specificity of the label gets in the way. (Or for a more concrete example, like saying you want to learn to code Python, but you don’t want to study C in a computer science degree…the two are intertwined although very different, and one needs first to master the concepts of object-oriented programming.)</p>
<p>To find one’s “voice” in poetry, however, is usually best-served by a provocative mentor and exceptional peers, which can be found in a variety of settings where a rigorous university has breadth and depth in English…plus a bfa degree. Or you can take an online course that “teaches you poetry.” Both, or neither, may become famous poets, but in the case of the former, there is a good deal more foundational and transferrable education and hopefully, connection.</p>
<p>So I think a singer who is a top student, for example, might want to find a a program that’s at a top music school with breadth, depth, and yet still offers the capability to concentrate in contemporary styles, because the prowess of faculty and caliber of peer offers opportunities that should in theory be more valuable than a lesser know vocational type program that is more focused in terms of style but less foundational in curriculum.</p>
<p>That said, two very smart female vocalists come to mind, neither of whom stuck around their top schools to graduate despite being top students:
Lady GaGa, for example, quit NYU/Tisch’s CAP21 program at the end of her sophomore year.
And Madonna left her dance scholarship at UMich SMTD to strike out in NYC 
</p>
<p>Or a student whose not quite as academically inclined but is serious about their vocation would do well at a program like Humber that is well known for its seriousness in its approach to producing contemporary musicians, right down to having a sr thesis/portfolio produced when you leave. But the curriculae that program feels is essential includes production and songwriting classes, plus the first two years of music degree prereqs…very similar to Clive Davis.</p>
<p>So a student who doesn’t want to have courses in songwriting and production that tends to go along with “contemporary” programs might almost be better off with a straight up BMus perf from a school of music despite the jazz. Because foundationally speaking, there may be more focus on voice.</p>
<p>Back to the poetry analogy…to write the best poetry, you need to hone the foundational skill of writing to masterfully manipulate the imagery to execute the expression. The voice, as an instrument of expression, likewise needs some foundational exposure the same way a talented jazz trumpet player benefits from playing in a wind ensemble.</p>
<p>Back in the Stone Age, I was in a casual rock band that gigged out a bit and won some local notoriety :). At the time, I had a fully developed career in journalism that ultimately conflicted with the band’s wider touring opportunities, so I abandoned the project after a couple of years. But over the course of those intervening years, we had three different singers, each whom audiences found entertaining, if outrageous. We performed only original music.</p>
<p>My favorite, the most professional to work with, and the best when it came to recording was a very well-trained jazz singer Had we gone forward, she’d have been the one. So perhaps I have a natural bias toward those trained in jazz, but it seems to me unnatural to exclude jazz from an ideal curriculum for a contemporary singer who is tightly focused on voice.</p>
<p>I think its great to form a list of suggestions for those seeking contemporary programs of one sort or another, but in the end, I thing one needs to form highly individual lists that still focus on teacher/studio and peers despite what the curriculae might say about a program.</p>
1 Like
<p>The points kmcmom makes are excellent; a good education in music has a foundation of music theory and a core curriculum, and to me, jazz music theory is the foundation for contemporary pop music. To ignore jazz history and be a popular musician is practically insulting the history of music. D has a poster in her apartment that shows the history of the jazz story in the USA. I can’t remember all the details, but google it and you’ll see that jazz and its many styles are the trunk, and more modern forms of contemporary pop and other modern music is in the upper branches. An excellent snapshot of music history for any future musician to have in their dorm or apartment.</p>
<p>For this forum, I can understand that a young music thinks they want to study only contemporary music, but to encourage them to avoid schools that have jazz as the base is a fundamental flaw in guidance as they define an optimum music education path that allows them to grow broadly as well as deeply. When they are 40, are they really going to be a pop musician? With a strong base, they can evolve their songs and styles as they mature and change.</p>
<p>So, this list is important, but I still think it should include schools that focus on jazz, as the top jazz students can most easily migrate to and from modern contemporary styles.</p>
<p>Does anyone have any reviews about the L.A. Music Academy? I know it’s for-profit, but I was wondering if anyone has any positive and/or negative experiences…thanks! :)</p>
<p>Hi! Re: LAMA…one thing I do is take ‘virtual tours’ of campuses and their environments by using Google’s Street View. If you do that with LAMA, you find yourself on an alley, making its location look goshforsaken. But LAMA is actually right on a main street in downtown Pasadena, just at the start of the quite cool Old Town. The staff at LAMA seem very proactive, and like GIT (now known as Musicians Institute) they have pro performers give open concerts every month or two, in case you’re ever headed L.A.-ward. It is smaller than GIT, but everything inside seems quite fine. LAMA is also a career school–it offers an AA and diploma in voice, so although it’s a college there are no liberal arts courses; it’s just straight voice, voice, voice…and you won’t have to learn to sing an oratorio. But, of course, what you want to know is, is the music education there good, and do students from LAMA find success in their profession? I’m hoping some LAMA students/grads will chime in to provide an inside view. Although it doesn’t have the right-in-Hollywood location of Musicians Institute, it’s just a short ride up the 110 freeway, so LAMA is within easy distance of the industry scene.</p>
<p>Thanks SO MUCH, brendansdad! Would you recommend someone to the MI or LAMA? Thanks!</p>
<p>brendan’s dad, it was actually post number 18 that I was responding to. I think it’s risky to think that it’s the piece of paper or where it’s from that does anything in contemporary music. If in fact students from specific schools seem to have a track record of “breaking in,” I don’t believe the degree or where it’s from has much to do with it. I believe it’s because whatever they’ve got, they were well on their way to having before their acceptance and studies while in college. And while in college, they dug in, made connections, developed, expanded their “tool box,” and stood out with both their peers in college and those in the local music scene. </p>
<p>I say this looking back with some hindsight and watching many kids get some great gigs and, yes, jobs at companies as well as gigs. </p>
<p>Music is simply not a “degree” driven field. You simply can’t say a degree from Berklee is to music what a degree from Harvard is to… whatever. At least that’s my opinion, my son’s opinion, and probably the opinion of most of his peers. </p>
<p>I do, however, take some comfort, in knowing my son will have that piece of paper from a highly regarded university. But not so much because I believe it will garner him a “music job” so much as God forbid he needs to end up with a non music job someday.</p>
<p>While USC or Berklee, because of the faculty they have, might offer some stronger connections than other schools (and I’m biased, but I think USC is tops in that area), it’s at least ias important (in contemporary music, mind you, I’m not talking classical) to grow some roots and make connections in a city where the music business lives, to meet and develop relationships with other amazingly talented musicians, to develop relationships with well-connected faculty. Yes, some schools have better connected faculty - no doubt. </p>
<p>But my son has friends who are beginning seemingly great careers with NO DEGREE in music. (Granted, some dropped out, but others never went.) So again, it isn’t the paper.</p>
<p>And I agree with kmcmom that to have laser focus on studying only within a very strict “popular music” curriculum only is very short-sighted. I honestly can’t believe the growth my son has had due to having to learn things he didn’t even know he needed or wanted to learn. But USC “made” him!</p>
<p>I’m sorry I didn’t organize my answer better. I hope it makes sense.</p>
<p>Hi! If at all possible, I’d suggest visiting these or any schools you’re considering, and using social media to find what other current and former students have to say. Take into account I might be too much the scholastic–I personally find the four-year collegiate programs (or three year in England) the more provocative. But if you are interested in a very fast track–just one or two years–I’d look at MI and LAMA. They’re right here where the music business is.</p>