<p>um, thanks, GreekLife, for that fabulous post revealing my name, affiliation and how much you believe in the crap you claim to be against. </p>
<p>I argue that because of my srat, I have more reason to love Greek Life. After all, I've definitely experienced some of the negative sides (the stereotypes, a change in attitude after I joined), but honestly, I never really wanted to pledge anywhere else. The girls in my srat are honest, accepting, intelligent and genuine. We go through Rush Week looking for girls we genuinely like. We are changing our stereotype (look at our frosh!), have multiple mixers already lined up for this semester and do a lot of work for the school and area.</p>
<p>I agree that we have very few girls with eating disorders in the srat (um, is that a bad thing?) but I do know enough girls in other houses with such problems. Generally, I think we have such a high number merely because W&L tends to attract the type of person who has that sort of problem. Does that make sense? It's early.</p>
<p>no, mostly people I didn't know. everyone I was already friends with were fine, it was more guys in frats I didn't know who judged me based on the letters I was wearing. This happens to everyone. I do it, too. It is the main drawback of W&L, but it mostly doesn't bother me. The frat or srat you're in gives a first impression, but such an impression is easily changed (or reinforced) by talking to that person.</p>
<p>I think it would be wonderful for W&L to hhave more upperclassmen on-campus housing. I'm amazed at how many different dorms there are at my new school. There are just as many options as in W&L, but they are options that pretty much everyone chooses from, not just those who don't live in their frat/srat house. I have a group of about 10 really good friends, guys and girls, and we hang out a lot together, plus we make it a point to eat together several times a week (which would be nearly impossible at W&L). My friends have such diverse personalities and interests that I'm sure we w ould have all pledhed different frats & srats, had we been at W&L, yet we all still get alog so well. In hindsight, I find it a shame that it is so difficult, as some posts have mentioned, to mingle with the opposite sex, or make new friends from different "groups" than your own. When I was first considering transferring from W&L, I talked to a favorite professor of mine, who tried to talk me into staying. He told me he thought of me as a minority student. Not because of my race, but because of the way I thought. Now that I've transferred to a new school, I know exactly what he means. Though I always thought W&L was homogeneous, it never bothered me. Once I left however, I realized how many kinds of people I was missing out on getting to know, by being at a place like W&L. </p>
<p>Okay, I know I went off on a tangent. Deal with it.</p>
<p>As a parent, I would like to see kids live in dorms for 2 years, THEN move into their Greek houses for junior year. I am not thrilled with the idea of students living in the country houses or in the downtown apartments. When decision time came for accepting a school's offer, the lack of upperclass housing was a big negative to my H and me (although not necessarily for my D). Obviously there were many other positives that outweighed the housing issue.</p>
<p>BTW, the girls at Duke and Wake look much unhealthier than the girls at W&L.</p>
<p>I believe the Greek houses are considered campus housing, and sophomores are not allowed to live in country houses or downtown apartments. I think only juniors and seniors do that.</p>
<p>They are considered campus housing. I think there needs to be more campus housing available for junior and seniors instead of forcing them off-campus.</p>
<p>Motherdear, you hit the nail on the head. The school does recognize this need but the change is slow to come. Until more dorms are built, these problems we're discussing will only continue. I'm in such a freaking tough position because I have a lot of really good friends here, but as HereWeGo points out I don't think it would be very hard to make new friends elsewhere, and the positives brought by that environment would outweigh the negatives of leaving W&L. Just tonight I was trying to hang out with my friends in another house and one guy was ****ed off at me for no apparent reason, but I think it's because he thought I was trying to steal their pledges or something. Crap like this just pollutes the environment here and makes normal healthy friendships hard to maintain.</p>
<p>And Marsden, the happy student body you see at W&L is a mask. Not to say there aren't happy students (there are plenty); but there is a significant percentage of students who are not so happy because of the problems mentioned earlier in this thread.</p>
<p>Considering so few juniors and seniors want to live in the current on-campus houses, what makes you think the school building more houses will convince them to go for it?</p>
<p>The school has more upperclass housing than upperclassmen who want to live in university housing, not the other way around. No one is "forced" to live off campus. Everyone wants to do it.</p>
<p>And btw I've found that the vast majority of students love the way things work here at W&L and would not trade it for any other school in the country. There's a reason our retention rate is so high.</p>
<p>When we first learned how many juniors and seniors live off campus at W&L, I was pretty concerned. But my husband reminded me that he lived off campus at Wake for 3.5 yrs, with fraternity brothers, and felt strongly that prepared him well for living independently during summers, law school, and beyond. Paying bills, making repairs, stocking the frig, dealing with landlords and neighbors and unreliable cars, getting to classes on time are all "life skills" that he learned from the experience.</p>
<p>I think I would have wanted to live off-campus as a junior and senior too, but I don't like the fact that nearly EVERYONE does. It really separates the classes.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Normal interaction between the sexes simply fails to exist at W&L
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</p>
<p>This ludicrous assertion, part and parcel of a series of jeremiads Morgan has posted in this thread, is simply breathtaking. We are painted a picture of a hideous, lawless jungle, rife with rampant drugtaking, sexual assault, alcoholism, depression, and eating disorders. Why on earth hasn't the Health Department shut down this festering den of iniquity? </p>
<p>Extrapolating from your own psychological issues is an irresponsible way to characterize W&L, or any school. I'm sorry that you have had unhappy experiences at W&L, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that you have unhappy experiences everywhere, whether or not you admit to it. </p>
<p>The vendetta you've pursued against W&L here tells us far more of you than it does of the school.</p>
<p>Marsden, you are correct that that was a much exaggerated statement. I should have chosen my words more carefully; that was a definite use of hyperbole. I am, however, not extrapolating from my "own psychological issues" (which is quite an unwarranted ad-hominem attack, and not at all what I am doing); I am citing empirical data that is readily available if you look for it (here's one link: <a href="http://journalism.wlu.edu/rrarchive/01-13-2005/azodi.htm%5B/url%5D">http://journalism.wlu.edu/rrarchive/01-13-2005/azodi.htm</a> ). My experience at W&L has been more positive than negative; I am simply answering questions that people have asked me about what I have seen, AS A W&L STUDENT. Not as a prospective student who doesn't actually attend the school. </p>
<p>All I'm saying is that the current housing and Greek system does undermine the qualities that a small liberal arts school is supposed to have by nature--and it is just not what I wanted from a school. There are plenty of people who absolutely love it, and that is great for them. I just wanted to let other people who want the same things that I do out of a school that maybe W&L isn't the best place for them to attend. W&L is a fine institution; I have learned an incredible amount here and made a ton of great friends (although it HAS been hard to maintain them because of being in different fraternities), but the things I mentioned do stand. I decided to apply to small schools because I wanted to have a good amount of pretty good friends (as opposed to a big school where you tend to have a small group of extremely close friends), but W&L turns out to be more of the latter. If this is what you want, then you will get it. But, please note that the administration understands these concerns and plans to build new dorms within the next ten years. Obviously I am not the only one who has these sentiments.</p>
<p>This is the last post I am going to make on this forum because I feel my anonymity has been compromised and some people are not taking my comments at face value; if you have any specific questions for me please email or PM me. I just want my final words to be that W&L is STILL A GREAT SCHOOL, but you need to know that it is right for YOU before you go there.</p>
<p>(Also, please note that I repeatedly defended W&L's Honor System in the long, controversial thread started sometime last Spring, thus weakening Marsden's accusations of a "vendetta" against W&L.)</p>
<p>For a number of reasons, the first college I went to didn't suit me. So guess what? I transferred. One of the best things I ever did. I didn't spend 100 hours on internet message boards trashing the first college, I simply went out and found a better place for me, applied, and was accepted. </p>
<p>At *both *colleges, I enjoyed rush, but concluded that the Greek life wasn't for me. So guess what? I didn't join a fraternity. I didn't spend 200 hours online trashing the Greek system, I just moved on. It wasn't for me! BFD! </p>
<p>Morgan, you're obviously an intelligent person, and I think you can see why I am posting about my *own *personal experience for once. Extrapolate from that, will you? It's true that I'm asking you to get beyond your negativity for the sake of W&L, but I'm also hoping you'll do it for your own sake. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, I have a feeling you'll be back in a day or two with a new username, so we can continue the conversation as you'd like :)</p>
<p>Marsden, will you please stop with this attitude. I keep getting emails that say "reply to [insert topic]" with a specific question geared to me. Do you not want me to answer it? And if you truly read my posts, you can see that I am not <i>trashing</i> W&L; I am citing the problems as I see them. I have mentioned positives as well, and have openly stated that I agree with others' positive assessments of the school. Is it a problem if I want to help other people who have specific questions about what it's <i>actually<i> like at my institution? I'm sorry if I don't work in admissions and perpetuate the same rhetoric on a website devoted to getting true student perspectives on their schools (I'm not accusing anyone specifically, but I do know of at least one regular poster who does work for admissions). </i></i></p><i><i>
<p>It seems you have shifted your argument from saying that my statements are <i>wrong</i>, to saying that I should completely forget about it and not help out others for whom W&L may not be the best choice.</p>
</i></i>
<p>You would be correct that your anonymity has been compromised. It has been ever since you chose an e-mail with your first name and middle and last initials. However...</p>
<p>I don't want people around here to think that W&L is the cesspool Morgan makes it out to be, because it absolutely is not. There is, actually, normal contact between the sexes, and quite a bit of it, actually. </p>
<p>Perhaps it's the Winter term slump setting in. I know I feel it a little bit. It's cold, there's pledgeship, harder classes, and nothing but stress for right now. It's a fact anyhow that cold weather and lack of sun makes people a little more depressed. Maybe that's why you feel this way, Morgan? ;)</p>
<p>I agree that sometimes the parties get tiring. But they would get tiring anywhere else. Try to find things to do during the days and weekends... concerts, Outing Club trips, rafting, tubing, snowboarding, paintballing, whatever. Drinking isn't everything and will never be. We realize that.</p>
<p>I ask that anyone considering W&L would be much better off visiting the school and seeing for him/herself before taking any of our words as fact. I feel that for every negative voice about W&L, there are 10 positive ones. Opinion is just that... opinion.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't want people around here to think that W&L is the cesspool Morgan makes it out to be, because it absolutely is not. There is, actually, normal contact between the sexes, and quite a bit of it, actually.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Thanks, it's a relief to encounter a voice of reason in this discussion.</p>
<p>BTW, if anyone is troubled by notification emails, all you have to do is visit "My Control Panel" and turn them off. Simple, huh? It's your own choice--your own option-- it's not some evil predicament that you have to rant about. Hmmm... a pattern?</p>
<p>OK, one final post. Like I said, I do not want to make W&L out to be a "cesspool." It is not. Stop putting those words in my mouth. And also like I have said, people who are freshmen (see: Sottilde) have a much different view than people who are upperclassmen (especially with the whole interaction between sexes thing). Our views are naturally going to differ. I was entirely ecstatic about W&L until the end of last year. </p>
<p>As far as doing things other than partying, I do tons of it (especially concerts). Problem is, Chartlottesville is a long drive away to see shows every week. It would be nice to have concerts every week like many schools do but our GAB likes to only do three big shows a year. </p>
<p>And Marsden, I never said that notification emails were an evil predicament. Please stop trying to insult my intelligence. I simply want to help people by sharing my experiences, which should of course be balanced with others'. I couldn't agree more with Sottilde's final paragraph. For God's sake, stop making this a black-and-white argument and actually read what I have posted. I have expressed why W&L is not perfect for ME, and other people like ME. Obviously a lot of people like it. The fact remains, though, that there are some unnecessary divisions in the student body which lead to a more hostile social environment than you would expect (of course on the plus side, this tends to create even closer friendships within respective social groups). </p>
<p>BTW, what is the deal with the HTML formatting on this site? I kinda missed the ball on that last post, haha.</p>
Nice Morgan, very nice. Cleverly point out that there is a poster who works in admissions (namely: me) to put doubt on any positive commentary espoused on this forum. Conveniently leave out that I work in admissions as a WORK-STUDY! I am NOT an admissions officer, I am NOT paid for, or even asked to, monitor CC for admissions, it does not affect my life at all how many applications W&L gets this year or any year (nor do I really care that much). The only reason that I am on this forum is that I want to help people make informed decisions by answering questions not effected by bitterness or personal vendettas like so many forums seem to full of (simply because people need something to take their anger/bitterness out, you don't hear of people going to forums to take their happiness out). I assume you don't want me to get personal about your issues and why you might have so much negativity, don't cleverly impy that I am biased because I "work for admissions." When you have to resort to personal attacks, perhaps it is time to move on. </p>
<p>I apologize to all who have had to read through this ridiculousness. You can look through all my posts, I do not get angry often and never make personal posts but there was a direct attack on my impartiality that I had to answer. I hope you don't turn down what is a wonderful school because of the personal bitterness of a very small fraction of W&L students who didn't get into as "elite" a fraternity or sorority as they wanted to and decided they were better than everyone and too good for this school.</p>
<p>Every school gets problems that can be easily magnified and focused on by bitter people. W&L has its problems as well but the VAST majority of W&L students are happy with the housing situation. You can talk as much as you want about the school needing more dorms but you don't address the fact that there are plenty of dorm rooms that stay EMPTY because there is not enough interest in living there. </p>
<p>Prospective, easily influenced, students and their parents deserve honest answers about a school they are thinking about, not ones affected by personal issues. If you can't do that, either state your honest issues at the start of your post or leave the forum out of respect/fairness to prospective students.</p>
<p>PS: I am a sophomore. I agree that there is nothing quite like fall term freshman year, no term at any other school at the country can match the fun of fall term frosh year anyway. Personally, I loved Spring Term and look forward to the other three spring terms I have left like nothing else.</p>