<p>But as I said earlier, it appears that the whole idea of teaching is not really appealing to him. It was a thought - a place to start in college. He was good at math and people were telling him that schools need math teachers. </p>
<p>I believe he has to think beyond college to a degree. While you take classes in college to PREPARE for later, ultimately your happiness comes from being happy on a daily basis at your job. Right now, he doesn’t picture himself in any one occupation. </p>
<p>I kind of feel like he’s stuck in the perpetual student stage. He’s so “class-oriented” he can’t see beyond class to “job”.</p>
<p>I know that schools will hire math teachers who don’t have a strong background in college-level math, gained by majoring in math or some mathematical subject like physics. But I’m not in favor of it. I want math teachers to know a lot more about math than their students. I want math teachers to be able to understand the unorthodox ways of problem-solving that their students come up with, and why they are right or wrong. A math teacher who struggled with calculus wouldn’t have the mathematical imagination needed, I don’t think.</p>
<p>ABasket, your son is hardly stuck! He’s a Freshman! Right now he knows about the grownup world based on the occupations he’s seen living in your world- so if your friends are dentists, teachers, and engineers, those are the options he’s familiar with.</p>
<p>Does he know any actuaries? Does he know anyone who works for the Federal Reserve bank monitoring capital requirements at commercial banks? Has he ever met someone who develops the models behind pharmaceutical clinical trials? Or someone at the Center for Disease Control who assesses pandemic and epidemic risk in different parts of the country for various infectious diseases? Or someone who figures out traffic patterns for different times of day and months of the year to identify which lanes on a highway should be HOV? Or someone who calculates the profitability of a sports venue doing a deal with Coke vs. Pepsi?</p>
<p>All of these are careers for people who are good in math (but don’t need to be highly conceptual, abstract math majors.) None of these require certification in K-12 teaching. And I’ll bet your S is so ambivalent about disappointing his father that he isn’t even getting aggressive about identifying his options.</p>
<p>I know 30 year olds who are still in school, so the idea that you think your S is stuck is comical.</p>
<p>I think he needs to pick some classes for next year that interest him, do well in them, start talking to lots of grownups and reading like crazy. And the next big idea will emerge.</p>
<p>Growing up, the guy next door to our house owned an egg and dairy warehouse. The guy across the street had a small carpet store which also sold light fixtures. His wife was a librarian who kept his books. My parents were teachers as were most of their friends. Any wonder that I got to college thinking I’d be a world-famous anthropologist? (and no, I’m neither famous nor an anthropologist. One semester measuring primate skulls as a Freshman knocked that out of me!)</p>
<p>I always think my kids are stuck. And then, one day, I look up and they are miles ahead. There are stages for everything, and god do we worry, as parents.</p>
<p>Good luck. Try not to get too trapped in your head about it. Oddly, the major frequently “chooses” the student. fwiw</p>
<p>There are counselors at every college to help a kid through these issues. He should make an appointment with a career counselor and talk through his options – what happens if he continues on this path, switches to that path, or blazes his own trail? There are personality tests to determine what kind of fit certain careers would be which may make him feel more secure in his choice. </p>
<p>I’m hoping now that dear old Dad has had a chance to get over his surprise, he’ll start realizing that it really isn’t about him. Parents have to surrender their dreams for their children all the time – ‘my daughter the ice skater’ whose ankles can’t support her on the ice, ‘my son the doctor’ who faints at the thought of blood, ‘my boy the math teacher’ who really doesn’t much like math any more. Better a good lawyer than a bad teacher. </p>
<p>It’s not like your son is planning to go live in the woods on mice and moss. He’s a freshman…he doesn’t even have to declare a major yet. The best gift your husband can give right now is time, time w/o pressure. Tell him he can vent to you and you’ll listen but that he should bite his tongue when it comes to ladling guilt onto the boy.</p>
Bingo.
I missed this.
Of course the guy should not teach! It is difficult enough and there is so much flack for those who are called to teach.</p>
<p>This young man is a freshman. He probably does not need to declare a major until the end of his sophomore year. There are a few majors for which courses freshman year determine the possibility of graduating in 4 years: engineering occurs to me. I am sure that there are others, but I don’t know which they are.</p>
<p>But my point is that these are early days. He has SO many choices. And time.</p>
<p>Well if your son does not want to teach then by all means he should not.</p>
<p>As far as majors - a pretty large lead into sports business or pre-law. </p>
<p>If he has a good background in math and is stuck on Cal-3 then perhaps another major is a good idea - I would ask him what he would get out of the sports degree - pre-law - well one does not need to do pre-law to go to law school. Although I hope he is a good reader and good at remembering names. </p>
<p>now onto the topic of dropping courses - Remember college is an investment and my advice to your son would be to make a quick determination on a class. Is the teacher good, can you understand them - do they take time to answer your questions? I spent 12 years in college (Studying on my PhD - which I do not even work in the field of anymore). And the one thing I learned was if you do not have a good fit with the professor then look elsewhere - it is your money don’t waste it. </p>
<p>Although I will stick up albeit slightly on husbands behalf - and agree that he needs to find out what he enjoys doing and what type of career he might be interested in. Look into summer intern programs where he can get a taste of a field he has interest in. It might peak his interest more or make up his mind that field is not for him.</p>
<p>abasket, I think we have H’s who are similar, sadly. The first thing I need to say about my H is that he hates change. Really, really hates it. Likes everything to stay the same. When the kids change their minds about things, it drives him crazy. He also thinks that the best major is engineering. You can do anything with an engineering degree, go to medical school, get an engineering degree and you will have a backup. Want to be a writer, be an engineer because an engineer who can write is rare! He really believes this and will give this advice to anyone. It’s annoying, seriously.</p>
<p>Anyways, our D was having problems last year. She was not doing well in her classes, socially things were not good and she was really homesick. She wanted to come home and transfer to her brothers school. She didn’t want to change majors but felt that her U was too hard and too far and wanted to come home. Her dad was so proud she had been admitted to her university and would brag about it to all. (He loved it that our D was admitted to fancy U and his brother’s kid, who is a genius to everyone, is going to local directional u). My H was very upset and after much discussion she decided to stick it out at her original u. My H feelings were that she would hate her brother’s school for the reasons that she never applied there in the first place. Her school believed that she would be able to handle the school because they admitted her. That changing schools would add a year to her schooling when she didn’t want to change majors, just schools.</p>
<p>You know what. My H was right. Here it is a year later, she moved out of the dorms and into an apartment and is much happier. Her social life is fine. Her grades are much better. She had a bad semester and it did pull down her GPA but every other semester has been consistently the same and her GPA is back to acceptable levels. She’s going to graduate in time. Does she love school, no but does any engineering student love school?</p>
<p>Am I saying your H is right? No but maybe he has his points. That you don’t give up on something the first time things go wrong. That maybe you need to really think about what you are going to do and have a plan. Not just flail around and pick whatever. Maybe your S is good at math but maybe he needs to pick a different track but one which uses math is some way. I think men look at things differently. Mine thinks that whatever you do, it needs to be useful. Our S is graduating this year. He has a job, one he can live on without us helping him. No graduate school, no helping from his parents. I think he might be the only one from his group of friends from HS. And he was the one who had the worst grades of anyone he hung out with.</p>
<p>You know what my D has changed since she was unhappy last year. She’s working harder, she going to office hours. She talking to her professor and the TA all the time. She’s studying with other people. She talking to people in her classes and making friends. These are not hard things but she’s shy and it took her awhile. She also figured out that she can’t party every weekend and still take 18-19 hours. She can’t study with a hangover. </p>
<p>Abasket, I do not think that your S has these problems. No but I’m just telling you that our D made some changes and it worked for her. I think that your S has decided that being a math teacher is not his thing. He just has to decide what his thing is.</p>
<p>Deb922, yes, as you describe your husband, I read “my” husband! </p>
<p>I don’t feel like he has given up too quickly. Almost a whole year of Calc 2 and Calc 3 nightmare is not a quick fleeting thought. </p>
<p>Being that I am NOT a math person, I am not sure what other math disciplines might be a better fit for him and his way of enjoying/learning math. He STILL voices that he thinks he enjoys math, but not the Calc variety. I don’t know much about accounting math, business math, etc. </p>
<p>He is going to a meeting today for students interested in sports business. We will see what kind of vibe he gets there. Last night, working on his fall semester, it sounded like he was leaning towards a varitey of classes - environmental science, sports management, a government class, maybe Calc3 again and maybe a communications class. That would give him a “taste” of lots of things and meet some gen ed requirements. Crossing fingers.</p>
<p>abasket, you S could take a look at economics. Some universities offer the major as both a BA and a BS depending upon how much math you prefer. I recently read a study that econ majors are consistantly one of the top scorers on the LSAT.</p>
<p>deb922 – Great story! So glad things are going well for your daughter.
We had the opposite experience, though. Everything our daughter said freshman year told us she was unhappy with the major, but we firmly believed in sticking it out, learning your lessons, getting help, all that. I still believe all that. But she knew it wasn’t for her; she just continued to feel miserable and conflicted until midway through sophomore year. She stayed at her university and changed majors and is doing great and will still graduate on time. But sometimes I wish we had encouraged her to switch out earlier.
There are no just no easy answers!!</p>
<p>I think there is some anxiety (his and ours) with the worry that a delay in selecting a major will = a delay in graduating in 4 years, which means extra $$$. At the private school level, an extra semester can mean ALOT of extra $$$! </p>
<p>I have told him to try his best to have the classes he takes to “explore” at least most of the time “count” towards something (a gen ed requirement).</p>
<p>While I do not side with your H on this, I do think there is a requirement for a bit of tough love here. My kids KNOW that they get 8 semesters of funding from me, and that is it. They are free to change majors, but they have to finish in 4 years. If they don’t, that last semester (or more than 1!) is on their own dime. That is some incentive for them to be careful when planning their classes/deciding on a major. I realize this would place some extra pressure on your son now, but you should make sure he is considering the course requirements when he makes a change to a new major so an extra semester is not required. </p>
<p>I personally would make an exception to this rule for some obvious reasons (illness, family issues requiring temporary withdrawal, etc.). Or possibly if my kid was an engineering major (but I wouldn’t tell 'em ahead of time that I might pay for an extra semester :)). Also, I would consider funding a summer class at a local college if they needed it and could squeeze it in around their summer job (which they need to earn spending/textbook money).</p>
<p>I think his plan to try a bunch of different things sounds great. I hope he likes the sports management meeting. I think he will be successful in life, because he sounds like a go getter. That’s what’s important.</p>
<p>We are a math family, my Dad did graduate work in math, and worked in computers when they took up an entire room. My kids were always in the top math class on the math team etc. They see themselves as math people.</p>
<p>DD was considering math as a major (along with several others as she was truly undeclared), but by the time she hit multi variable calc at Berkeley she realised that she prefers math with one right answer, she likes the certainty of math. When you get to the higher level creative math, that is just not her thing. No worries, no judgments, just checking out options. Once she decided not to be math major, she switched that class to P/NP so she could avoid the stress of working for an A. She’s doing fine, in med school now, so it was not a problem. I can see some parallels in experiences, but the reactions are what made the difference. We figured it is her life and her degree and were not invested in what she chose, just wanted to help her choose well.</p>
<p>On the other hand, DDs cousin did a math degree at a lesser ranked school, a CSU, which means the competition in the classes was less intense. Cousin is not any more gifted and creative in math than DD, but did end up with a different math BS experience. </p>
<p>So, could the school make a difference? Yes, it could. A less competitive environment could allow someone who will not be pursuing a math PhD to still feel successful in math; is that right for your DS? I don’t know, it is something to talk about. Would be be happier in math in a different environment or would he prefer to stay where he is and not do math? What is he learning about himself?</p>
<p>Talked to S this morning. He had a “presentation” ready for me on the phone. (cute :)!)</p>
<p>He worked last night to develop a schedule for fall and talked to his sister - they get along very well - who is a college senior and who is GREAT at advising - this scheduling thing was right up her alley!</p>
<p>He is turning in a fall schedule today that will NOT include Calc 3 again. He MAY consider taking it winter semester. His rationale was to take a variety of classes fall 2011 that will expose him to some other academic subjects - he will take a sports business class (to explore this interest), a business/professional speech-presentation class (his love for public speaking and will apply to ANY profession), and an educational psych class (which will not rule out the education option yet and still fulfill a gen ed class) among other classes. He will have 18 credit hours. THEN, he hopes to have a clearer vision of where he wants to head. Does he miss math? Feel ready to tackle Calc 3 again? </p>
<p>He felt that if he took Calc 3 again fall 2011, he would have to take less credits because it would/will require SO MUCH time and effort. If he took it fall, and couldn’t be any more successful, he would be in a bind credit hour wise. This way, he uses fall semester for a math break, classes to explore and a full credit load with lots of “checks” on the gen ed list - thereby not falling behind credit wise. </p>
<p>I think these are all wise decisions. Good job S! Now, he will still have to present this to Dad - he will, and I know it is important to him to have his dad’s approval of sorts. He is not ruling anything out. This will give him some time to also explore other math courses of action - that might not involve Calc classes. </p>
<p>Most of all, he feels very good about this schedule and feels he has classes lined up that sound INTERESTING and which he can feel eager about. </p>
<p>abasket, I’m glad your son came up with a plan he feels good about. The problem for many kids is that they just don’t know about the great variety of jobs out there. They just see teacher, doctor, lawyer, etc. It seems your son is good with numbers, is a logical thinker, is interested in business and loves public speaking. What pops into my mind is joining the consulting arm of a Big 4 firm. Nice thing about the Big 4 (and other large firms) is that they also have extensive training for their new hires. They like bright, hard-working, logical, personable kids graduating from good schools. This isn’t auditing or accounting; it’s working with people and having some bit of knowledge about systems (although they usually do their own training, so that’s not essential). It’s a terrific training ground. He sounds like a perfect fit.</p>
<p>I heartily support taking a break from math and then taking another look at it. I did something similar in college. I loved math through high school, but in my freshman year took classes in film, literature, and western civilization. By the 3rd quarter, I decided to try math again. I was re-energized and realized I really did love it. </p>
<p>If it wasn’t for the time spent trying other things, I wouldn’t have made an informed decision.</p>
<p>I did NOT want to teach (you know the 70’s, feminism, and all that) and so I decided to couple math with computer science.</p>
<p>There is at least one thread devoted to accounting. Try to bone up on that. It sounds like your son would do well w/that major, and would be better qualified for eventual management jobs than others. My niece is a very personable young lady w/an accounting degree, is auditing and enjoying it.</p>