<p>It’s a big deal because it’s a college campus and this is a discussion forum for college-related topics, so we tend to get a little more invested than just the normal,unfortunate crime statistics that we all see in our respective cities/states. </p>
<p>The good thing about Twitter was that the Daily Pennsylvanian was reporting on it almost instantaneously. I agree that the Penn Alert system should have been used, too.</p>
<p>My son does love his school and has found a lot of things he loves about the city, but he does not even try to claim it is safe at or around Penn. And- he is pretty fearless.</p>
<p>Although clooeges must report crimes, crimes like this particular case are NOT included in their reports because it is not ON the campus. </p>
<p>It makes it more difficult for prospective students & parents to evaluate. IMO it isn’t easy to carve out urban crime stats by neighborhoods & types of crime in the off-campus housing area.</p>
<p>College years are also about growing up and learning how to be adult. Of course, none of us wants our kids to ever be a victim. It is a learning experience of sorts to be around where these things occur and to understand the need to take precautions etc… </p>
<p>I grew up in the inner city of Chicago and I feel the hard lessons of life growing up there have been valuable to me. My kids however, have grown up in really nice suburbs and seem so innocent and naive for their ages. As HS seniors, they are now chosing colleges and I cringe at the idea of them going to urban areas. Right now, one wants to and the other doesn’t (twins). This is where we take a deep breath and let our kids live and try to have some faith in humanity. I’m doing my best to help them grow up and make them “street smart” but that’s not an easy thing to do.</p>
<p>I was thinking that it almost sounds like the neighborhood of my daughters high school. Shootings occur on the streets surrounding the school, including teens being killed in the parking lot of the community center next door. It may discourage some from the school but despite the neighborhood, or should I say the criminals that are attracted to that area, most who do not live in that area, the school has one of the largest wait lists in Seattle, for its strong programs , instruction and inspirational students.</p>
<p>For instance one alum, was just on the front page of the Seattle times yesterday, for something quite wonderful and compassionate. He and his wife were in Haiti before the earthquake ( he is a laid off schoolteacher, his wife is an AIDs educator ), and now they<br>
find themselves essentially running a MASH unit. I
(incidentally- he didnt major in education in college but after college spent time in D.C. Schools with Teach for America, which then inspired him to get his teaching certificate)</p>
<p>Just like upenn or uchicago or Columbia that is in a very urban environment, I don’t think that students are going to stop wanting to attend Garfield because of where it is.</p>
<p>I grew up in the suburbs across Lake Washington. Rarely went to Seattle except to visit relatives or to go downtown shopping or to the museums at the UW.</p>
<p>But I like cities and we moved to Seattle after D was born. However when we were looking at middle schools, I almost asked for an escort back to my car in a neighborhood adjoining( but much safer) the one where Garfield is.
I was still a little wary of her sister attending Garfield, but I also think the skills she learned in that neighborhood helped her to get through her travels in India and England unscathed.</p>
<p>I would concur that NYU is not in a remotely bad neighborhood (basically, the Greenwich Village area). The streets in that area are crowded pretty much 24/7.</p>
<p>And Columbia is much safer than it was 35 years ago; there was a time when it was unsafe to walk in Morningside Park even in the daytime. No more.</p>
<p>When I was in high school, one of the major perceived drawbacks of Penn was that it was considered to be in an unsafe area. I guess that hasn’t changed nearly as much for Penn as it has for Columbia.</p>
<p>I think what bothers me about this is that the “normal” cautions would not have prevented a Penn student from getting caught up in this incident and possibly shot. It was NOT 2am in an isolated place. No doors were unlocked. It was 7pm at a movie theater. No matter how street smart and careful you are, you would not have expected gunfire at an early evening movie.</p>
<p>Not sure what your comment means dreaming, but yes I think the skills my daughter learned traveling with public transportation in the city during high school helped her to have confidence while traveling by public transportation by herself as an 18 yr old through Abu Dhabi, Mumbai and London.</p>
<p>( of course the trip she took with her school classes to NY/DC, & Dunkwa , I’m sure helped as well. BTW did anyone see her on tv Thursday night, they apparently repeated the report on her school trip on channel 5. Imissed it the first time they showed it too cause we were at the airport when she left for India - don’t know why my kids have been on tv so much, I never even got to be on romper room, cause my mom didn’t want to drive to Seattle ;). )</p>
<p>I was trying to say that you can hardly compare London to Mumbai in terms of safety. I have never for a second felt physically harassed in London or any Western city (bar Philadelphia, in fact…funny) whereas I’m sure that it’s a completely different kettle of fish in India. I just don’t think any kid from the USA needs to be worried about travelling in England. It’s practically the same place, except that you need to be careful which way you look when you cross the road.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, violence is far to0 common in all locations - urban, surburban and rural. I would not be surprised if stats on gun and knife violence on, and in immediate proximity to, college campuses are just as high at suburban/rural campuses as urban ones. The stats may have already been done…but stats are meaningless when it is your loved one who lives in a spot where a violent incident took place.</p>
<p>The stabbing of the football player on the UCONN campus this year, the abduction and killing of the UNC student body pres a couple of years ago and the Va Tech incident were not in urban areas. They were all areas where administrators proclaim student safety and I’m sure parents thought their kids would be much safer than an urban location.</p>
<p>I don’t agree that suburban and rural locations have higher violent crime rates. Here’s a link to a annual study on metro areas and cities:
[CQ</a> Press: City Crime Rankings 2009](<a href=“http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2009/CityCrimeRankings2009.htm]CQ”>http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2009/CityCrimeRankings2009.htm)
Might be helpful to check this out if you’re considering an urban area. Remember, kids who go to an urban school tend to use the whole city, not just stay on campus.<br>
Philly does not rank well (Camden NJ is the worst!)
Another interesting tidbit: State College in PA is rated as one of the safest metro areas. Well, I can say from experience, that there is a lot going on in that college town. But most of it boils down to relatively small stuff like public drunkeness and vandalism. Bar fights too. Drunk kids do stupid things. But you’re not going to see roving gangs with guns, and armed robberies…as a rule.</p>
<p>I think my daughter actually felt more comfortable in India because of the friendliness of the people even though the signs weren’t usually in English.</p>
<p>In any case my example was to show that urban skills can be transferred to other environments, not to say that Seattle has the same crime rate as philadelphia or that heathrow is easier to negotiate than the airport in Mumbai.</p>
<p>RE post #31
I didn’t say suburban/rural college campus would be higher…but could be just as high.</p>
<p>Per the info. on methodology in the study referenced, nearly 60% of the crime in that study is non-violent crime.</p>
<p>Parents, and students, put some level of trust in the security of most schools we send our kids to, and the area around the schools. Unfortunately, violent crimes are happening in and near schools in all types of locales.</p>
<p>2boys…you are correct. This one study is just an indicator.
And it does include some heavy-duty crimes:
“The crimes tracked by the UCR Program include the violent crimes of murder, rape,
robbery”
For example, I believe I would hesitate to go to school in Camden NJ (Rutgers has a campus there). There’s a reason it’s ranked number 1! I have to go there on a regular basis for my work…it’s a scary spot for sure.</p>
<p>MoWC - Boy, there is just no time limit on worrying!!! I know you are a pretty positive individual who looks at the big picture, but things like this shake us to the core. Makes us wonder why we wanted to raise such independent, self-reliant kids!</p>
<p>As Roseanne Rosannadana used to say, “It’s always sumthin’”</p>
<p>MoWC- I’m very, very glad that your child is OK. My thoughts go out to those who were not. </p>
<p>Campuses can be scary- there was a woman who was raped and beaten to death by an exboyfriend right in my sister’s hallway at her dorm room (at 2 AM- someone let him in behind her). </p>
<p>I live on a pretty safe campus, but I’m still scared from time to time. Luckily, there is on average, less than 1 murder in the entire city where my campus is. I always know thought that that can change in an instant. It was one of the reasons that I chose to go to a school with a more enclosed campus rather than one that was more integrated into the city around it.</p>
<p>I think criminals have learned that students are good rich soft targets. Today the average student walks around with a few thousand bucks of tech equipment and credit cards. In my day we had a few bucks and maybe a sliderule. do the math.</p>
<p>Yea, I had very little that was worth pawning or stealing when I was in college or law school. My kids bought bikes that are very unattractive to thieves (they were $10 or less apiece) and try to dress very inconspiciously so that they are less attractive as targets.</p>
<p>We & the school reminds the kids to be safety conscious. You’re right that the electronics make students more attraactive targets thtese days. The intoxication & drug use also makes students easier targets, since their guard is down when they are under the influence & much less likely to remember or ID much of anything.</p>
<p>My D’s room mate says their apartment is near a high violent crime area, tho so far, the kids have not reported anything.</p>
<p>Tiresome to hear, but these things can happen anywhere, to varying degrees. Sure, gun fights are unlikely in suburban/rural areas, but there were two girls abducted and mudered last year from campuses in NC and let’s not forget about the young researcher killed in her lab building at Yale. The problem of crime is all pervasive and it’s easier to blame “society” rather than hold the criminals, often young people too, responsible for their actions. I felt safer on the streets of Tokyo at 3AM than I did in lower school classrooms in the inner city in which I taught; had a knife pulled on me by a 3rd grader- the Principal’s response was, “She’s had a hard life”! My cell phone was stolen right out of my skirt pocket by a charming little 2nd grade fellow; the Principal there refused to search him or order him to return it to me (other kids knew he had it, and they were correct) or to call the police in to speak to the child and tell him what the penalties of theft could be. Another youngster in the class “stole” it from the kid and returned it to me, minus a special item on it which my own children had purchased while we were at Disney World. When I demanded that the school administration order him to return that, I was told," He’s never been to Disney World, so ‘giving’ him that would make him happy"!! And we wonder why these kids grow up to go on to bigger and better crimes later on?</p>
<p>Wow, MM! It does make you wonder about what is going through these folks minds! It would be very confusing to the kids who WANT to have predictability in their lives. Sounds like your principal was worse than useless, a poor role model for everyone!</p>
