<p>Thank you Giants. You have proven my point in a postive way. I just wish that most kids going to a CSU would come to the same realization as you have . Most people I know (especially ones going to the CSUs) hate the GEs and cannot understand their necessity. Bless you for your imput. </p>
<p>And as I posted above, the college you go to is in no way a label. One just helps you get you where you want to be more efficiently than another.</p>
<p>As long as I am on this subject, I like to take the opportunity to address a few things I've not gotten a chance to reply to in my absence.</p>
<p>For those of you who failed to catch the satire of my post on page 2 (I think that's the right page) then you've failed to catch the little deposit of humor, and, in turn taken a very serious stance and accuse me of being serious when I was in fact being very lighthearted. Also, I find the notion of other people telling how I should or should not behave on an internet forum, of all places, to be rather amusing. </p>
<p>Secondly, now that this post has ascended a level and it has been quite a few pages since we last saw the bickering of two teams badmouthing the other's school, I have a few positive things I'd like to concede about SDSU. Of course, just about everything west of the I 5 in San Diego is nothing short of paradise. But SDSU is still not in a premier location like UCSD. I spend my childhood in La Jolla, and my teenage years in a peaceful suburb. I find difficulty in thinking of the chaotic 30,000 student campus, and its bustling city surroundings as a likable college atmosphere. From SDSU, it's still hard to get to the nice part of San Diego unless you own a car, have friends who drive, or are willing to tough it out on public transit. Just being relatively close to the beach is not the world. And on the other side town, I will not budge on my stance that East San Diego County is not a pleasurable destination. </p>
<p>As for Fashion Valley, I cannot understand why this is a commodity for a college student. You've named one of the most expensive shopping malls in all of California. The few times I go there a year, I usually never see college students except for the rich few who sport their 400 dollar sunglasses and thousand dollar watches. And admittly, I am biased in thinking that for those kids, college is really a vacation rather than work.</p>
<p>I've taken Latin (taught be a renowned doctorial academic across the country)...i've taken a political science class taught by a guest professor, who is an Oxford Don. I've taken an writing rhetoric class taught by an ex marine, who has written many books on the subject of war (he now teaches at UC Berkeley). To make a long story short, i've had great professors at SDSU and I believe my "craving" has been satisfied. Next winter I'll be studying at Oxford through a study abroad program San Diego State has. So in terms of an education outside of business, I feel SDSU has fulfilled all my needs.</p>
<p>Is there area surrounding SDSU really bad? Is there a lot of crime? Is it dirty? Are the houses in poor condition?</p>
<p>If you drive like 5 miles south of San Diego, down the hill we're on, its bad. But the campus area isn't that bad at all. And when I point out that something is nice, near by, it gets discredit immediately, because appearently it's only for the "rich" college kids. I go to marine street beach in La Jolla about 3 times a week..its a 15 min drive.</p>
<p>since i've been a professor in both the UC and CSU systems and see some familiar handles above here are a few additional insights:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>any state university, both UC or CSU, have a WASC qualifying amount of general education or core classes in areas such as arts, humanities, social sciences, and so called hard sciences. as giants says--and we frequently end up agreeing on almost everything here and the cal poly boards--you are not deprived were you to study humanistic things on a CSU campus.</p></li>
<li><p>since the UC system has the greater focus on graduate programs many of which lead to the doctoral degree, generally speaking students on these campuses get a bit richer variety of core classes from faculty with a greater density of publications in major journals of that field.</p></li>
<li><p>further, again as a general rule, those who major in these core areas typically get a better education at a UC campus. of course there are exceptions where distinguished departments emerge from within a CSU campus, but rarely an entire college.</p></li>
<li><p>since the mission of the CSU is more oriented toward applied undergraduate fields such as nursing, agriculture, architecture, communications, business and engineering, there may be an advantage for undergraduate students to go to CSU units where these types of majors are particularly distinguished. however, since there are 23 campuses one should be considerably more selective in picking majors from this rather large list.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>as mentioned elsewhere, california offers college prospects more than forty state university choices. that means one should do a lot of homework before you decide where to go if an instate public is your goal.</p>
<p>There's a great deal of good things in San Diego. It's a good place to live in. But that's San Diego as a city. You can't just name San Diego State and automatically attach it to everything good in San Diego. Like I stated before, unless you own a car, the campus can seem very isolated from most of the finer aspects of the city. Can you imagine a freshman at SDSU, who's does not own a car, trying to figure out how to get to Point Loma or Coronado or Torrey Pines from SDSU? Should the subject be successful in plotting a course, think of the costs associated with having to switch bus to trolley to bus again with their first ticket most likely expiring in the middle because the trip could take more than two hours. </p>
<p>Riverside's campus has much more green. The campus is really full of trees everywhere you go. I don't mean the useless tall coconut trees found at SDSU. UCR keeps big trees that make up endless lines of green and provide a great deal of shade and beauty to the campus. Alot of trees at UC Riverside are not even native to Southern California. At SDSU, my overall impression of the campus is that it's mostly concrete, paint, and a few tree samples here and there that doesn't even affect the campus the least bit. </p>
<p>Aside from that small stuff that I hardly care about, I'm sure both universities are good choices. Seeing some of posts on these forums has got to be scary towards established industry leaders. It seems for alot of people, they just care about what is the fastest road to a series of promotions and which college/degree they exploit the best for their personal gains. Just explore the forums and you see an overwhelming amount of questions concerning which university offers the degree that pays the most, which university has the best connections and where the highest paying workers get their MBAs from. Yet, very few questions are asked about the jobs themselves and what the nature of the work asks of each individual. I just hope that whereever someone goes to college, they will have had the exposure to real world experiences that actually serve to stir passion for that line of work rather than serve has a resume booster. Whether through classroom instruction, research, or work experience, if a college can make a student to desire to be a champion of their industry rather than a gold digger, then that college has done its job.</p>
<p>thats so funny about how you try to make a valid argument defending your case about how riverside is better because it has more, and better trees. thats the lamest thing i have ever read.</p>
<p>anyways i have always thought sdsu to be superior to ucr</p>
<p>Walnuts:</p>
<p>The San Diego Trolley (a light rail system) has a stop at SDSU which means the students can travel extensively in the county (Mission Valley, Downtown SD, Seaport Village, the TJ border, the Santa Fe depot with connections to coastal cities, LA, Bay area, etc.) without a need for a car. From the Old Town transit station, there's a also a bus route that heads north towards UTC past La Jolla shores beach and UCSD. I don't think SDSU students without a car are isolated at all.</p>
<p>IF you want to work in Investment banking (70% ivy league graduates) or top tier consulting (Bain, BCG, McKinsey) either school sucks. These business positions require a great deal of quanitative and analytical skills that students not from Ivy league or top 15 schools lack the academic pedigree for these jobs. In fact, going to a targeted school is only one aspect of the getting the interview, the other is having a high level of academic achievement and displaying the communication skills necessary in a business environment. Many firms in either field would rather hire an engineering major like from friend from caltech than a 4.00 phi beta kappa from SDSU or UCR based on pedigree.</p>
<p>Much of your post is right, but there's one big problem. Students who go to schools such as UCR or SDSU lack academic pedigree, yes, but skills? I do not believe that if someone went to a non-Ivy or non-top 15 (I'm not sure if you mean this would add up to 23 or if the Ivies are in the 15 schools of the top 15), they somehow necessarily must lack the skills because of that fact. Just as you can find standout students at the best schools, you can find them at lesser schools. Assuming that they must lack the skills is baseless and elitist.</p>
<p>Yeah, but you can also get that same 150k education at your local library and become a CFA. </p>
<p>Take a look at where these folks graduated, i'm not seeing any IVY's and I saw a few of them came out the SUNY system. But truthfully, I can see where your statistic of 70 percent is coming from. Did you take into account that the east coast, specifically New York is essentially a Mecca for investment banking. How is someone at SDSU or UCR suppose to make contacts with anyone working in the World Financial Center? Most jobs are seemingly gained via contacts and networking. That is what makes the Ivy Leagues so valuable, NOT the quantatative or analytical skills that a student possesses based on a Harvard over an SDSU education. You have to absolutely be joking me with your Cal Tech vs. 4.0 SDSU student analogy. I'm going to take a wild guess (HINT: SARCASM) that the SDSU student would be more social and could inherently market a pitch book to a company better than your average Cal Tech engineering major. If you don't have any financial skills whatsoever, there is no way you could be a financial analyst, so once again they would probably take a 4.0 SDSU finance major over a 4.0 Cal Tech engineering major, even if the "name" of the degree holds more clout. Frankly, we could sit here and argue all day, because there are way too many variables that need to be factored in to the job equation. You sounded like a broke down tape recorder repeating over and over the typical misconceptions and preconcieved notions of prestige whores. Guess what buddy, most management teams of fortune 500 companies are loaded with guys from the likes of the SUNY, the UC/CSU system and many other various state college systems, so becareful with your misleading information.</p>
<p>SDSU Class of 08'</p>
<p>What I meant by top 15 is schools outside the ivy league but are often still recruited by the big firms. Schools such as Cal Tech, MIT, Northwestern, University of Chicago, Stanford, certain liberal arts colleges and public schools like Berkeley, Michigan, and UVA. While it is possibly to get a job coming from a non targeted school in such firms, you are looking schools that are just outside of their recruiting circle like UCLA and Texas which usually have a strong business program and are schools within the top 50 nationally. A top student at Jackson State or SDSU which is 4th tier will not stand a chance no matter what unless they did something extraordinary because there are far too many qualified candidates with superior pedigrees which they won't even interview ahead of them. </p>
<p>Top students at any university have skills, however, in terms of ibanking and consulting you can't learn what they learn in class except for basic concepts which are the foundation of them. All these firms are looking for is the aptitude (high grades) and pedigree (top university).</p>
<p>Yes, I have a friend who was a Mechanical Engineering major at Caltech and works as an investment banking analyst for Credit Suisse. I did forget to mention that he also minored in Business Economics and management as well but nevertheless it still is a minor. </p>
<p>Even if most finance is on the east coast, they are plenty of satellite offices in LA and SF. I have yet to meet or hear of any SDSU grads working in I-banks or private equity shops.</p>
<p>to equate jackson state with san diego state is an insult.
you might want to do a bit of homework on the aztec business programs before you make such wild comparisons, mike.</p>
<p>check, for example, how many accounting programs are accredited by AACSB.
you might notice that san diego state is one of a very few.
check, for example, san diego state's faculty.
you might notice that it is considerably more credentialed in every way than jackson state and most other cal states for that matter.</p>
<p>and as a business professor i personally know dozens and dozens of alumni from non top 15 programs, or even top 50, at the top tier of every field of business.</p>
<p>saved rings the bell again.</p>
<p>Quit frankly I don't care about how good SDSU accounting program is. How many SDSU alums work for a Bain, Boston Consulting Group, McKinsey, Goldman Sach, KKR, or any top tier consulting, Investment banking, or PE shops where the "real money" is made.</p>
<p>the thing about prestigious universities is that they basically get a headstart if they play their cards right. Its next to impossible to get into a BB ibank or consulting firm out of UCR or SDSU. However, i do know some people who do eventually end up in top banks but after acouple years of work experience working for a smaller bank while their counterparts in prestigious uni's go off to their mba programs.</p>
<p>I'd say SDSU just because of the better weather and atmosphere.</p>
<p>The only investment banking firm, that I know something about and have connections at is Merrill Lynch, take a look at the management profiles, and take note of where ALMOST everyone did their undergrad work, I think I saw 2 IVY's and about 10 fourth tier schools. I can't really speak about the other firms, because i'm not ALL knowing like you are. There are probably about 200 Finance grads each year from San Diego State and probably about 150 of them stay in San Diego, where those firms are not very abundant, San Diego primarily focuses in the bond market. As for the other 50, you scatter them across the United States, so your "NUMBERS" of SDSU alums at those firms are inherently not going to be in BULK NUMBERS, but when you research a firm who has a headquarters near, lets say Cornell, those cornell grads will stay in New York and thusly there numbers will be higher, inherently. </p>
<p>Take a look at Brandes Investments, it's almost all SDSU alumni. Or Nicholas-Applegate. </p>
<p>But don't get me wrong, I agree it's easier to get in the door to many of those bulge bracket firms with a degree that has more clout. Although, when your 50, and you seem like an intelligent guy. That degree you carry with you, won't matter as much, as your IQ and how you carry yourself. The application gets you the interview, the interview gets you the job. But the bottom line is there are ways of getting the job, the don't involve having to be in pretentious environments driven on high priced education. </p>
<p>Just some facts you probably didn't know:</p>
<p>SDSU has the 5th best CPA pass rate in the nation</p>
<p>International Business program is ranked in the top 10 by US NEWS</p>
<p>We are ranked number 60 overall by US NEWS (not 4th tier in business) and we are building a new business school by 08', so look for the rankings to continue a positive trend.</p>
<p>Enterpreneur Magazine ranked SDSU one of the top 25 schools for Enterpreneurs (ALUMNI include Jim Sinegal Founder/CEO of Costco, the CEO of Jack In The Box, COO Qualcomm just to name a few)</p>
<p>you don't need to cite the stats, bell. anybody who knows top business programs has a high regard for san diego state. you guys have national leaders in every field of business. to pick a very narrow area of business like investment banking, pick a few elite firms, and then make sweeping conclusions on program quality is exactly what our business students are taught NOT to do in their bus stat classes--which is one i am currently teaching.</p>
<p>i'd love to see hard data that shows jackson state as a peer institution. that's laughable.</p>