SAT II Chinese subject test & native speakers

Test Preparation SAT Subject Test Preparation
1

<p>I just have one question: WHY???</p>

<p>Going back through older threads regarding the SAT II Subject test in Chinese, the overwhelming majority are by native speakers of Chinese discussing their success or failure taking the SAT subject test in Chinese. The very rare post is from the student who's NOT a native speaker, who's actually studied Mandarin for years, and who's damn near failed the test because the curve is skewed by all the native speakers taking the test.</p>

<p>So, I ask, WHY would any of you who are native speakers of a language imagine that there's any value whatsoever to be had from proving that, after living your whole lives either in China or with parents who speak Chinese, you actually speak the language? Does speaking your native language qualify you in some way to attend a university?</p>

<p>My question applies equally to native speakers of Spanish who take the Spanish subject test, native speakers of French who take the French subject test and so on . . . although I suspect that the skewed test curve is more of a problem on the Chinese test, due to the relatively large number of Chinese students applying to U.S. universities and the relatively small number of American students who have the opportunity to study Mandarin in high school.</p>

<p>What exactly do you think you're accomplishing by taking the subject test for your native language? Do you really think that admissions officers will be swayed by the results? Do you honestly anticipate that they even consider the results?</p>

<p>Meanwhile, the kids who've worked for years to learn your language get screwed. Explain to me how this makes sense.</p>

2

<p>If you haven’t heard, it is actually wise to take any subject tests that a student is skillful at, including the native language that the student speaks.
However, that particular native student who is taking his or her own language as a subject test should be aware and should view that test as an “extra” subject test.
Meaning, if the university requires applicant to take two subject, the subject test should be seen as the third.</p>

<p>I assume you are talking about the language plus the listening test.
There is also option of non-listening language tests, which plentiful of non-native speakers take.
Also, language test is not the only test that has harsh curve; it can be comparative to Biology.</p>

<p>Hope this answer some of your questions :)</p>

3

<p>Simple. Because it’s the easy way out.</p>

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<p>The easy way out of what? Are you suggesting that a native language subject test could be used to fulfill a school’s subject test requirements?</p>

5

<p>Yes. (11char)</p>

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<p>wow . . . remarkable!</p>

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<p>You seem surprised.</p>

8

<p>Yes, actually, I am amazed that any school would use the results of a native language subject test to assess a student’s academic ability and, hence, ability to succeed in college.</p>

<p>That an applicant is native born Chinese is a diversity factor that the college may or may not consider, as it sees fit. Having declared, however, that one os native born Chinese, the student should not need to back that up by proving fluency in the student’s native language . . . fluency should be assumed. (And isn’t it also indicated on the application itself: “What language(s) are spoken in the student’s home?”)</p>

<p>In the unusual circumstance that a student was born and raised in China, but grew up speaking Yoruba, for example, that would be interesting . . . and would certainly merit mention in the student’s application. But I still wouldn’t expect or require the student to prove it. I’d simply expect that if the student made such a claim, he or she was being truthful. (After all, schools don’t require third-party verification of any of the other personal stories that are part of an application. If you say you suffered an illness when you were younger, no one asks for hospital records!)</p>

<p>Is there, in fact, a different standard for native speakers of English? Yes, but that’s because the language of instruction in this country is English. So if a student can’t read, write, and speak English, that’s going to be a problem.</p>

<p>SAT, ACT, and SAT subject test results are used to predict a student’s performance in college. Strong performance in an academic subject such as biology, literature, or history provides an indication of the student’s academic prowess. Strong performance on a foreign language test can also demonstrate a student’s academic ability, but the key word is “foreign.” The student studied a language and mastered it; that’s significant. Proving that you can speak the language you were raised with shows . . . nothing.</p>

<p>I’m curious . . . can you provide examples of schools that accept native language subject tests to fulfill SAT subject test requirements? I know that MIT is not on the list . . . but I’d be interested in knowing which schools are.</p>

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<p>All scores accept native language tests because proving someone is ‘native’ is extremely diffucult. How can a college prove that someone speaks ,say, french or chinese at a native level? A student can always say that English is his or her first language.</p>

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<p>I don’t understand. This presupposes that all native speakers (including those that actually apply from China) are lying and saying they learned the language in school. You’re not saying that’s what the native speakers are doing, are you?</p>

<p>That would be grounds to have not only ones test scores rejected, but ones entire application!</p>

<p>Besides which, applicants ARE required to state what their native language is . . . as well as required to take the TEOFL if it’s not English!</p>

<p>Perhaps I misunderstood . . . ?</p>

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<p>I thought you were referring to say American Born Chinese who have fluency in chinese or hispanics who have fluency in spanish.</p>

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<p>Well the thing is in life, different people will always have that different advantage. If a 6 foot basketball player beats a 5 foot basketball player, is the 5 foot basketball player suppose to complain that he’s too tall? Similarly, Native Speakers have the advantage when it comes to the SAT language exams, but in a way you have more of an advantage in English literature. I am sure foreigners have more right to complain at how you guys have the advantage in English.</p>

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<p>I’m sure they do. But that problem is easily solved by not applying to an American university, isn’t it? Sorry, but if you don’t feel comfortable using English, then this probably isn’t the best place to go to school.</p>

<p>And I’d have to agree . . . native speakers have the advantage when it comes to the SAT language tests. My question - which remains unanswered - is what the native speaker proves by taking this test. Stated otherwise, how does a native speaker’s “800” on a test of his or her own language demonstrate the academic ability needed for success in college?</p>

<p>Think about it, the tests were designed for non-native speakers whose only exposure to the language has been a few hours of language class every week, for a period of time probably not exceeding 3 or 4 years. So a kid who grew up speaking that language every day of his or her life for 17 years can do better on the test . . . big surprise! My question remains . . . what does it prove?</p>

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<p>In reality, all the subject tests are going to be skewed towards the high end. That’s b/c students can take the subject tests they’re best at. I got 800 on Math II w/out any prepping b/c math is my strongest subject. Likewise, a native Chinese speaker is allowed to take the Chinese subject test.</p>

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<p>Yes, but you’ve demonstrated academic ability by performing well on the Math II test. I’m still waiting for someone to tell me what a native speaker demonstrates by performing well on a test of their native language . . . especially when the test was designed for students who are not native speakers of the language. Of what value is the test in this context?</p>

16

<p>So, should native speakers be prohibited from taking that respective language subject test? Likewise, should those people whose native language is English be prohibited from taking SAT II Lit?</p>

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<p>Really, are you suggesting that a literature test and a language test are comparable? A test taker can have perfect mastery of a language without being familiar with the literature in that language.</p>

<p>Your argument would be better if you suggested that native speakers of English be prohibited from taking the TOEFL.</p>

<p>And the answer, of course, is "no.’ Anyone should be permitted to take any test that he or she wants. The question (still unanswered) is what value the test results would have.</p>

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<p>I realized that the foreign language subject tests may not be as biased as you think. I took several CB Chinese practice questions (I know some Chinese, but not a native speaker) and got about 2/3 right. So students who studied Chinese for a few years could also achieve 800 pretty easily.</p>

<p>On the native speaker’s perspective, scoring 800 doesn’t really show much other than, “This guy can speak Chinese.” At the same time, I took Math II; colleges know through my application that I qualified for USAMO, got perfect score on AMC10, so in this case getting an 800 on Math II doesn’t show much either.</p>

<p>Any way you look at it, all the subject tests are going to be biased towards native speakers and math or literature or science prodigies.</p>

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<p>So, back to my question . . . what value does this have? What does it tell a college that the college needs to know?</p>

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<p>Your response telling “students to not apply to America university is invalid” because you probably don’t know about college education in other countries. You don’t realize that in many countries such as Asia competition is very high so many people cannot make it to big universities and so have to come to America to study. In other places such as Africa, education may not be as developed and so foreigners come to America for college.
To answer your question, by taking a test in a language it demonstrates fluency in that language. Language is a very valuable skill, and perhaps many foreigners are thinking about studying languages.
Read the section under ESL and international students directly quoted from collegeboard: [About</a> the Tests - SAT Subject Test Why Take](<a href=“The SAT – SAT Suite | College Board”>What were SAT Subject Tests? - College Board Blog)
It shows that these tests were not necessarily designed for non-native speakers but rather for all students in general, natives or foreigners.
The value of a high score on the language exam shows proficiency, foreigners can take these exams for the same reason you are taking it.</p>