<p>I have no energy for this thread but to say you're right drummerdude, shame on them. But it certainly sounds like you come from a community with racism is alive and well all the way around. Sad but typical in much of our Country today. Racism is nowhere near dead and one of the key ways we can combat it is to bring people together at colleges.</p>
<p>Yes ccaddit, drummerdude never typed anything that said I was incapable, but both he and you imply it.<br>
The ignorance you share with similar racist makes replying to your argument futile and not worth anyone's time.</p>
<p>Suze, you're negative in almost every single one of your posts. The only thing I agree with that you probably also agree with is the fact that there is racism in the world today.</p>
<p>We never implied that... The only thing that we've actually implied and stated over and over is the fact that black people do have a hook just because of the color of their skin. PERIOD.</p>
<p>Oedipus: Listen to me right now, and listen good. The ONLY thing I know you are not capable of is having the world evaluate you as a person amoung the whole crowd, and I NEVER told you otherwise. You will always be 'the top Hispanic' or 'the best minority'. Everything you do, people will believe that you only got there through affirmative action. As mentioned above, you will never know what would have happened if you weren't a URM. Perhaps you would have done everything you did with the benefit of AA, perhaps not. That doubt is destroying good people. I believe, as you most likely do, that that is terrible, that it is disasterous to everyone. It breeds racism. There you have it, AA breeds racism.</p>
<p>Did racism evaporate? No, not totally. But you know what did happen? Racism became hated by society, and rightfully so. People now despise racism, they get very angry at people who they deem racist. That is what is happenig here. You are proving my point that racism has become unacceptable to an overwhelming majority of America. That means that the racism you do experience is trivial in hwo it effects you. I would enjoy hearing some of the racist things that have been done against you, I really would. If there is a sizable pocket of America that is still racist against blacks or Hispanics, I want to know, and I want to help change that. But as of now, that wind has blown decidedly against racism, and I cannot believe anyone who says otherwise.</p>
<p>Oedipus, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Drummerdude admitted that discrimination happens but he argued that it isn't nearly as prevelant as it once was. Btw, I agree with you Drummerdude, I hear my latino friends being racists against whites WAAAAAAAY more often than my white friends are racist against latinos. Oedipus, you probably SEE more racism than is actually there because you seem to be actively looking for it. NOBODY is doubting your ablities! You competely made them up out of thin air because you're SO convinced that everybody's racist against you. I'm not arguing racism exists--I can attest that it does from my own experience--but I don't think it's nearly as prevelent as you make it sound, or in my life it hasn't been.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Funny that you say that, sense my town is pretty much in the dumps right now. We have a good size population of Hispanics, and a few blacks.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Why do you feel that your town is pretty much in the dumps? </p>
<p>White 13,035 84.4 %
Black or African American 347 2.2 % </p>
<p>American Indian and Alaska native 63 0.4 % </p>
<p>Asian 125 0.8 % </p>
<p>Native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 1 0.0 % </p>
<p>Some other race 1,517 9.8 % </p>
<p>Two or more races 363 2.3 % </p>
<p>Hispanic or Latino 2,973 19.2 %</p>
<p>Thanks, semi. I also think that Oedipus' definition of racism might be radically different than ours. Sure, we all agree that denying blacks service or using racial remarks in a serious matter is racism. But some very left wing people try to define racism as anythings that they don't like. I mean there are some lunies out there who wonder "why are undershirts white? That's the most racist thing I'ver seen!"</p>
<p>Sybbie I think my town is in the dumps because the steel plant that was most of our economy was shut down a few years ago, and our school district is practically bankrupt, charging us $50 for every extra-curricualr just to stay afloat. Wal-Mart has fixed some of our problems. Also, we have th ehighest teen pregnancy rates in IL except for the Chicago area. We have gangs in the steets, a rampant drug problem, and there are areas of town that most people just don't feel safe in.</p>
<p>Racism is any attitude, action or institutional structure which systematically treats an individual or group of individuals differently because of their race. The most common form of racism in North America is in the form discrimination against African-Americans.</p>
<p>Racialism is a form of discrimination based on race, especially the belief that one race is superior to another. Racism may be expressed individually and consciously, through explicit thoughts, feelings, or acts, or socially and unconsciously, through institutions that promote inequality between races.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Racism is any attitude, action or institutional structure which systematically treats an individual or group of individuals differently because of their race.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>sybbie, by that definition, Affirmitive Action is racist.</p>
<p>Exactly! Those definitions in themsleves prove that AA is racist!</p>
<p>"Racism may be expressed individually and consciously, through explicit thoughts, feelings, or acts, or socially and unconsciously, through institutions that promote inequality between races."</p>
<p>AA! (promotes inequality between races)</p>
<p>"Racism is any attitude, action or INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURE which systematically treats an individual or group of individuals differently because of their race."</p>
<p>AA! AA! AA! </p>
<p>"The most common form of racism in North America is in the form discrimination against African-Americans."</p>
<p>So wrong, so wrong. Even if there was a good group of people still racist against blacks, the amount of people effected by AA is much larger. It includes everyone who is not a URM that has applied for a college or job that openly uses AA policies.</p>
<p>To everyone here who believes there is still a lot of racism in the US: Doesn't the fact that we are basically arguing or the best way to not be racist sort of go against your claims that people are so racist? I mean everyone is arguing AA vs. no AA. You don't see anyone defending racism itself, or yelling racial insults, do you?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sybbie I think my town is in the dumps because the steel plant that was most of our economy was shut down a few years ago, and our school district is practically bankrupt, charging us $50 for every extra-curricualr just to stay afloat.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So when you apply to college you SAT scores grades are going to be taken in context of the opportunites that you have had offered to you, right? </p>
<p>So while you may have good grades, scores etc, do you want to be discriminated against because your come from a place that is experiencing economic hardships and may not offer the courses or opportunites that a the rich suburb in proximity to you offers.</p>
<p>Drummerdude,
Keep in mind that people are a culmination of their experiences and their limited frame of reference. Right now you are 17/18 and haven't experienced much, so in that I say live on a few more days. The saddest thing about racism and most other isms is that they usually are based in ignorance as people are afriad of what they do not understand so it is easy for them to form misconceptions and sterotypes. If you think that the cost of education is expensive, try the cost of ignorance.</p>
<p>As you expand your frame reference and come out side of your comfort zone you gain understanding. Compassion, empathy compounded with a little bit of grace will take you a long way in this life. Education takes place both inside and outside of the classroon so that we know better, we do better and hopefully become better people.</p>
<p>What's the average SAT score of URMs at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, NYU, and Cornell?</p>
<p>The concept underlying affirmative action, asserts that civil rights laws alone are not enough to remedy discrimination</p>
<p>"You do not wipe away the scars of centuries by saying: 'now, you are free to go where you want, do as you desire, and choose the leaders you please.' You do not take a man who for years has been hobbled by chains, liberate him, bring him to the starting line of a race, saying, 'you are free to compete with all the others,' and still justly believe you have been completely fair . . . This is the next and more profound stage of the battle for civil rights. We seek not just freedom but opportunitynot just legal equity but human abilitynot just equality as a right and a theory, but equality as a fact and as a result." President LB Johnson</p>
<p>"The most common form of racism in North America is in the form discrimination against African-Americans."</p>
<p>False. The most common is discrimination against white people. Do you know how black, indian, and hispanic people talk about white people? Hmm.. They can call us niggers, but we can't call them that. Something's wrong with that picture. As my parents say, we, the whites, are becoming the minority.</p>
<p>Am I the only here that thinks that the URMs that got in, got in by merits?!</p>
<p>Are you tryin to portray me as against economic AA? This is not true. I know I will be considered diffently than the rich suburban kid. That is a good thing, for me and for the college as a whole. This is not, in any way, discrimination. The college expects both of us to do the most with our situation. So he might be expected to fill his schedule with as many APs as possible, but I might only be expected to take the 6 offered by my school. That is not discrimination because we are held to the same standards. Discriminetion would be if I was expected to take the 8 or 10 APs thast he took, without the ability to do so. It would be discrimination if he was expected to take 20 APs if his school offerd 15. This policy that the college has is no more discrimination than sales tax. The rich person pays 6.25 percent tax, and the poor person pays 6.25 percent. Is that discriminating against the rich person because he has to pay more? No. If I could take more APs, I would, but I can't. There is nothing in racial AA that can compare to that. But with if the rich suburb kid is black? Than all of a sudden it is assumed that he had a terrible time dealing with racism, and he gets advantages he doesn't deserve. You are totally steering around the problem.</p>
<p>So you have a different defense. You can't tell me why I am wrong, you just say "You'll understand when you are older and more experienced". It is like the dad trying to avoid talking about sex wiht his kids!</p>
<p>"As you expand your frame reference and come out side of your comfort zone you gain understanding. Compassion, empathy compounded with a little bit of grace will take you a long way in this life. Education takes place both inside and outside of the classroon so that we know better, we do better and hopefully become better people."</p>
<p>Ahhh, we've come across another form of discrimination. Age discrimination. I can't be right, I'm only 16, I haven't experienced enough yet to come to the 'correct' liberal conclusion. So you really think that over time, I will realize that everyone is racist against blacks and that they should get my job, because, well, because they're black? There's nothing compassionate about AA. I consider myself a compassionate person. That's why I oppose abortion. There is nothing compassionate about treating people unequally, ok. I see that all I need is a little liberal indoctrination, errr, 'education' to fix that disease called equal rights. Well, I hope that never happens.</p>
<p>Affirmitive action does nothing to remedy the problems faced by minorities today. The reason that so few minorities continue on to college is because their high schools do not adequately prepare them for it. If we really wanted to fix the problem and 'even the playing field', we'd start by improving the high schools.</p>