<p>I did not say NYU was twice or 3 times as much. I said it's almost twice as much as many of the schools. I don't have time to pull all my files and post. I just don't have the time for this forum that some do. But, you can check the websites. This isn't personal opinion. It's a simple fact. Easily proven. I have no problem with NYU. It's a wonderful school. I don't understand why anyone is defensive over it.</p>
<p>Soozievt, as a college counselor (not to mention a woman with two kids <em>in</em> college), I have no doubt you know far more about the whole "how people pay for expensive college" thing than do I. But this discussion about the expense of schools such as NYU reminded me of a few articles I have read recently that state that about 60 percent of undergrads borrow to pay for college, which (according to Nellie Mae, a Sallie Mae subsidiary) that the average they owe upon graduation is a whopping $18,900!! According to the statistics, graduate students borrow even more -- usually more than $30k! The whole idea of my kid graduating in that kind of debt scares me. But you gotta go what you gotta do, I guess. </p>
<p>I also read that the College Board estimates that the average cost for tuition, fees, room and board at public colleges is now $12,127 a year at public colleges and $29,026 at private colleges. </p>
<p>That certainly does put NYU in the more expensive category, but frankly, from what I have been able to ascertain, not that much more from than, say, CMU, etc. </p>
<p>L</p>
<p>My research came up with (approximately) an EVERYTHING MT cost of:</p>
<p>NYU - $49,500
Syracuse - $43,900
CMU - $44,300
UMich - $39,500
CCM - $22,000 (In-state)</p>
<p>Some of these numbers are rounded, some of these numbers are for 05-06 and some of 06-07. Everything often includes both room, board, tuition, books as well as personal costs (laundry, extra food, entertainment, etc.) and transportation. If anyone is interested, each school's site has a breakdown.</p>
<p>nyu IS rediculously expensive. there's no way around it. but, it really makes you wonder. obviously not everyone can afford to attend all of these "top schools" (which all are very pricey)... so there must be good theatre education at the state level for all of the kids who need it.. so if you are a prospective who feels like you won't be getting the calibur of training just because you can't afford nyu, it's not necessarily true. i visited kent state's campus because i knew of a girl who went there for a BFA in Musical Theatre (very very talented), and was curious to see what they were up to. I had never heard of their program, and figured that just because it's not a "top ranked" school that the quality wasn't going to be up to par. i was wrong. what i learned was that Kent ends up getting all of the wonderfully talented Ohio kids who cannot afford to attend NYU or Syracuse or Michigan ect. and that's a lot of talented kids! and i saw Into The Woods there and was FLOORED. It was incredible. And the girl I know who just graduated was cast as Maria in West Side Story at a Professional Theatre. </p>
<p>so, i guess what i'm saying is that everyone might be talking "top school".. "best education".. but there's no way that all the best actors in the world who are going to succeed come from backgrounds which enable them to afford NYU. And don't get me wrong, I love NYU. I most likely will be attending. I consider myself very lucky to be able to do that, because there is great talent who could be in my place, but can't. But, I just wanted to share my Kent State story because I can understand why a person who can't afford to go to these schools would become worried... but there really is no reason for it!! There are great programs at the state level.</p>
<p>And the other thing is GRAD SCHOOL!! Excell in Undergrad... and try to get a free ride to a prestigious grad school (ehem.. NYU!)... I think that's where people really refine their skills. That's what I've heard anyway!</p>
<p>I guess that's one of my peeves about this forum. It seems to focus on only the big schools and the kids that get into them. Some people are left feeling that it has to be one of those schools or nothing. And the people who are planning to attend these non-biggies don't post because they feel inferior. The story about Kent State really brings that point home. There is excellent education to be found many places. In the end, it's the talent and the person underneath that. It's things like integrity, perserverance, ambition, work ethic, attitude, etc. And, I'm not implying that those characteristics exist only in any level of school. I'm just saying that, no matter where you graduate, these are the things that will make or break you......assuming the underlying talent is there.</p>
<p>college IS so expensive. the prospect of how much debt i'll have leaving school (if i get into the school i want to) is daunting.</p>
<p>it's frustrating, but it's almost tempting to stay at a school i don't like just because of the tiny amount i'm paying to attend. at this point there's no chance of that happening (i just don't "belong" here), but man, it would be nice to have so little debt getting out.</p>
<p>I was discussing the cost of NYU with a friend whose D is waiting to hear from them now (though not for MT) and she commented that parents need to keep in mind that it is not just the cost of the tuition and room and board that they need to consider, but also the cost of pocket money. This woman's older D attends a small, private college in Ohio and she said "My D can go out to eat several times in her little Ohio town on about $20 a week. That wouldn't cut it for one meal in New York City."
Whether that figure is correct or not, the point makes sense. It simply does cost more to live in the middle of NYC than it does to live in, say, Yellow Springs, Ohio.
But the bottom line is that parents and their students applying to college have to sit down and figure out whether they can swing a school like NYU or whether they can't. Some can't. That isn't fair, but life isn't fair. We all just have to do the best we can with the resources we have.
L</p>
<p>Here are the out of state tuition and room & board at some more that I applied to.</p>
<p>Otterbein - $28,000
Florida State - $25,096
Ithaca $35,144
Hartt - $32,476
Roosevelt $25,430
Juilliard $33,900
NCSA $22,310
SUNY Purchase - $20,465</p>
<p>Even if you get their biggest $20,000 scholarship, NYU is STILL more expensive than most of them WITHOUT any scholarships and some like Otterbein, FSU and Hartt are VERY generous. This is one of the reasons the teachers at my performing arts high school don't recommend NYU. Nobody from my class even applied this year because of the cost.</p>
<p>While I agree with the general discussion here that parents/students have to be realistic about cost ANY school, I do not agree that NYU students cannot eat out a couple of times a week for $20. There are countless wonderful low cost places in and around NYU that cater to NYU students. They offer authentic cuisines from around the world at very reasonable prices. Also note that NYU has options of apartment style dorms with kitchens even for freshmen, and there are supermarkets and green grocers all around. Maybe the "best of NY" restaurants are saved for visiting days but I suspect that is true at most schools.</p>
<p>Since razorback doesn't have the time to pull out her files, I pulled out mine. Granted, I don't have the details on every single school discussed here on CC but that's part of the reason I asked her for her information so that I could learn. Anyway, here is the information I had for the schools which I investigated for a few kids this year. The figure is for tuition only, but it gives a good representation of some of the various schools which are discussed here:</p>
<p>$34,780 NYU
$34,180 CMU
$28,285 Syracuse
$26,832 Ithaca
$24,700 BoCo
$24,064 Emerson
$22,629 CCM
$22,000 PSU
$20,171 Elon
$18,686 MMC
$17,900 OCU</p>
<p>I knew I had about a dozen different schools discussed here. I can't find my file on UMich (perhaps theatermom can fill us in on what their tuition is). So I think that's a fairly good representation of schools which are often under discussion here. This is the reason I inquired of razorback which schools she was talking about when she said that NYU was "almost twice the cost of many, many of the schools discussed on this forum". I'd really be interested to know what those schools are, I asked that in all sincerity in my previous post. </p>
<p>While NYU is obviously very expensive, everyone knows that, it isn't a big surprise, or shouldn't be. However, it's not double the cost of ANY of those schools. To make such statements is not useful to anyone who is in the process of learning about admissions to these programs. Certainly, financial considerations have to be a part of the decision-making process in any college admissions hunt. Not everyone is going to be able to afford every college, that's a given, not just for theatre kids. That's why if it's necessary to compare financial aid packages that kids not apply E.D., and there's nothing wrong with kids applying to schools which are more expensive. It happens all the time in college admissions, for every possible major. You never know what kind of financial aid you're going to be awarded, and for the price of an application fee, you can take your chances and see what you get. I know many kids who applied to many of the schools on that above list, got financial aid packages from all of them, and some of these kids ended up with more aid from a few of the more expensive schools than they did from some others. Sometimes it's hard to predict.</p>
<p>Lots of kids graduate with debt, and certainly no one wants that, but sometimes it's inevitable. The amount of debt, again, is a personal choice that we and our children all have to determine to fit our own personal situation. As a parent of four Ds, I'm just happy that my next D chose to go to school in Canada, where it is much less expensive. :)</p>
<p>The spending money issue is not as clearcut as some have indicated. My D at NYU can easily eat out for less than $20. There are innumerable small restaurants in the city where a good meal can be eaten for less than $10. Students are resourceful at finding them!</p>
<p>stgmom24, it's great to know that there are low cost restaurants and carry outs that cater to NYU students and that students <em>can</em> eat out a few times a week on $20. I must say that that comes as a pleasant surprise, as on my own infrequent but always very much enjoyed trips to New York to attend a Broadway show, we have been lucky to get a meal at MacDonald's for three for a little less than that amount! It's good to know that there are cheap places for kids to get pizza, etc. Of course, students can (and I am sure, do) eat on their meal plans at the University. I was just passing along a comment made to me by the mom of a prospective NYU student.
Please note that none of this talk of expense is in any way meant to disparage NYU. Far from it! It's a terrific school for students whose families can swing the cost and who want to experience life in a large university in a huge city. I have no doubt that my own D will apply there. But if she ends up being fortunate enough to be accepted when the time comes, we will go in with eyes wide open as to the costs, not just of tuition, but of doing things in the city, including eating, transportation, etc.
L</p>
<p>Again, I said ALMOST double the cost. And there are several there that approach that. And fortunately, there are numerous other schools not as expensive as these. We are looking here only at the most elite and most expensive. I really don't know why the disagreement. No one is dissing NYU for being expensive. It just is. And I don't think anyone who has ever set foot in New York would dispute the fact that it's a very expensive city. We have TGI Fridays in Texas. We ate at Fridays in NY and prices were at minimum, doubled. Our hotel, not a luxury hotel, was easily twice what we would pay elsewhere. That doesn't make them evil. It's just a fact of life. We're just talking about economies here. You can probably find a cheap meal anywhere. But if we're discussing the cost of living somewhere, you've got to compare apples to apples, not compare a normal meal at an average restaurant in Ohio to a cheap little place in NY. Your gotta compare the prices on 2 Applebee's or Chili's menus. There really is no argument here. The posts showing the costs of the schools make it apparent what the differences are. It just has to be each family's decision how they deal with the education cost. People have different philosophies on how to handle their finances. Some people feel strongly about having debt while others feel it is justified. My husband is one who hates it and so it's not an issue of affordability, although that is a factor. It's a choice of where we want to find ourselves in 4 years. Age plays into it as well. If you're approaching retirement, do you want to saddle yourself with that. But, if you had your children young and feel good about taking that on, then you're in a different position. There are just a number of factors.</p>
<p>My older son was accepted to CAS and its honors college a number of years ago. He did not attend, as he went to an Ivy, instead. But the financial aid from NYU amounted to almost a full ride, between merit and need; very little of it was loan. NYU was exceptionally generous to him and in fact the aid was just as good as the offer from the Ivy he now attends. I do not know if Tisch will be as generous, but my fingers are crossed.</p>
<p>Razorback wrote:
"I did not say NYU was twice or 3 times as much. I said it's almost twice as much as many of the schools."</p>
<p>I did not say Razorback said that. I was responding to a post by Sanity who wrote:
" In some cases NYU costs two or three times as much as other fine BFA and BA programs."</p>
<p>I am aware that Razorback wrote "almost two times as much."</p>
<p>There ARE colleges that cost way less than NYU. And there are many that are just under NYU's fees. The ones my D applied to were not that much lower than NYU's. I am aware that there are schools that cost even less than the ones she applied to. She did not apply to the ones being mentioned that were significantly lower. Some of those schools I had not heard of until I read CC, though I am very glad I have learned of many more options that exist. In fact, this forum discusses a wide range of schools. </p>
<p>Cost of a college education is a factor that most families must weigh. Some can pay full freight, some get aid, some have to apply to schools with lower costs. It is different in each situation and for some it is a matter of what they can do or not, and for some it is a choice of how they wish to deal with education. </p>
<p>The original questions asked about if the school was "worth" the money. That is a different issue than if someone can afford it. I was speaking to the so called "worth." A good education can be found at many many places. As well, a person can be a success no matter the school he/she attends. It is the person who succeeds, not the name of the school they came from. More expensive schools are not necessarily better than less expensive ones. Each student must weigh which school is the best fit of their options. As I wrote before, a family must decide where to have the student apply based on what they can and are willing to pay or wait until the aid packages come and then decide. Some shy away from applying to more expensive schools thinking they will cost the most but sometimes that is not true and sometimes a student can get merit aid or a better need based package and so should apply and see what happens. With respect to paying back loans, the family must discuss how much they are willing and able to take on and who will be responsible for paying those back. Our children will not be paying back the loans, we will. We must take out loans as we don't have college tuition saved up nor earn enough to afford the cost of college at the time of attendance and thus must spread it out over many years. That is a personal decision. </p>
<p>Each family has different circumstances. A student can and should go to whatever school is within their means and within their desires. For instance, my kids likely would have benefitted from going to prep schools which would mean boarding schools given where we live. I'm sure my older one would have enjoyed prep school and my younger one a performing arts high school. My older one may have liked a ski academy and one is even in our town. We cannot afford private school for high school and it was never an option. My kids made due with where they could attend school and have no complaints. They still got to reach their college goals. Likewise, college aged students can get an education at thousands of different colleges and still reach their goals. </p>
<p>Initially, a student named "Sanity" raised the "worth" question and appeared to be saying that NYU was an option for her but she was wondering if it was worth spending more to go there vs. a cheaper option. That is talking of worth, not which you could afford to pay. In my view, the worth of the school is not tied up with the cost. On pure worth, it is worth it if that is the school that interests you, where your needs could be met, and so forth. That is an individual question. </p>
<p>About college costs.....there is tuition, room, board, books, transportation, and spending money. My own kids get both an allowance and they both have earned a substantial amount of money by WORKING and they use those funds for addiional spending money in college or to do summer things, etc. Yes, a kid in NYC has more to spend money on as there is more to do than a kid going to school in the middle of nowhere. It isn't so much that food costs more but simply there are more things to spend money on. We pay for our children's books. But our children have worked in summers and during the school year and so they also earn money. Other students can work summers as well to help with the costs. </p>
<p>Razorback writes: "I guess that's one of my peeves about this forum. It seems to focus on only the big schools and the kids that get into them. Some people are left feeling that it has to be one of those schools or nothing."</p>
<p>If that is how you feel when you read the forum, then you own those feelings but that is your choice and is not how I perceive the posts on the forum whatsoever. I have read CC for almost four years and never felt that if my kids didn't get into certain schools, that it was lesser or "nothing". I only cared that my kids found schools that met their personal criteria and where they would be happy to attend. I certainly don't see the forum only discussing schools with the most well known reputations. This forum has discussed a wide spectrum of schools be it NYU, CCM, Otterbein, Elon, Montclair State, Muhlenberg, Oklahoma University, College of Santa Fe, American, Webster, Baldwin Wallace, SUNY Buffalo, Marymount Manhattan, UArts, Hartt, UMich and so on. We have 30 individual college forums and I have learned so much about all the options out there. I counsel students and have suggested a WIDE spectrum of schools to them. I have clients who go for NYU, CMU or UMich and others applying to UMiami, Wagner, Muhlenberg, Arizona, Marymount, Circle in the Square, Roosevelt, or BOCO (to name JUST a few). I certainly don't think it is all certain schools or nothing, by far. Some schools don't even fit certain candidates, money aside. Money is a factor still for other candidates. </p>
<p>I don't think anyone is defending certain schools. I think people speak merely of their own experiences. I don't think anyone should walk away feeling that their own choices were lesser but merely different. As well, when it comes to cost, everyone's situation is different. Some families can pay full freight anywhere, others must be on financial aid, and still others may not be able to go anywhere but to an instate school due to tuition costs. But ANYONE can make it. Life isn't always fair when it comes to opportunities but rather than wallow in woe, make the most of your situations and anyone can be a success. As parents, we all want the best for our children and we all do what we can. And whatever THAT is, is good enough for our kids. My kids don't have what many of their friends do, but they ain't complain'. They made the most of their rural upbringing and public schooling and got where they wanted and if they couldn't go where they are now, they'd have survived and still worked toward their goals. It is about the person, not the school.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>While on the subject of cost, I'll share the amount we were given without financial aid for tuition, room and board, and spending money used for a typical nyu student. The amount was approx. $50,000.00, but that includes computer, laundry money, supplies, books, etc. NYU does give financial aid, and to some people is is generous. What they do is give you a package. My package consisted of 2 scholarships, a set amount for work study, and 2 federal loans. So, the financial aid will be different, someone could get more loans than me, but no work study, as it is tailored to the person. </p>
<p>Chris</p>
<p>Undergraduate tuition for the School of Music (home of the Musical Theater Department) for academic year 2005-2006 is as follows</p>
<p>In-State: $8932 (oh, to live in Michigan.....)
Out of State: $27,320</p>
<p>Housing costs vary widely but we found freshman dorm/meal plans to be considerably less than our son's costs at Cornell (about 25-30% less). Off campus housing is readily available and can be less than University housing or significantly more - depends on your child's tolerance for grime........ </p>
<p>There are also very few unexpected expenses and even ancillary expenses were/are considerably less than we saw at Cornell. A single comparison: at Cornell we were charged $44/month for the required high speed internet connection in the freshman dorm room (this was in '02-'03). UM charged $55 for the entire year's connection last year ('04-'05).</p>
<p>There is an additional UM benefit I WOULD pay for but fortunately don't have to: the quality of "customer service" at UM. They are the NICEST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET!!! Nothing is too much trouble, they are polite, helpful and so friendly. Interaction with administrative folks at UM is a total pleasure, always. Cornell? Not so much..........</p>
<p>Cloverdale, I don't obviously know what your child will get from NYU but we were very happy with their package. The Trustee Scholarship was $20,000 and then there were loans and other parts of the aid. Thus, the cost for my child to attend NYU is not $48,000 but way less. That is why I think before people rule out an expensive college, they may wish to apply and might be pleasantly surprised that the aid might be substantial, thus cutting the costs down by a lot.</p>
<p>I didn't realize that colleges charge for internet connection as neither of my kids' colleges do. That is a new one to me. </p>
<p>As theatermom suggests, certain aspects of a college are also priceless :D.</p>
<p>Susan,</p>
<p>Trust me, ALL colleges charge for in-room internet connections. It is just a matter of whether it is itemized or buried in some other expense.</p>
<p>Theatermom, I'm laughing cause I know what you mean. I'm SURE we are paying for it SOMEwhere. I just have not seen that as an itemized fee on the bill. There is plenty else! Each school must delineate the charges differently.</p>