<p>herestothenights, did you get accepted?</p>
<p>Even though Providence College is SAT optional they will probably reject you if you don’t submit SAT’s. My neighbor was rejected with a 1600/2400.</p>
<p>^ I got waitlisted at Wake and accepted to Providence… my SAT scores are terrible, but my gpa was decent</p>
<p>Unless there was a bubbling error (doubtful), I think trying to find a way to get around the score either by taking the ACT (which probably won’t provide much of a boost) or by finding SAT optional schools is doing a huge disservice to the student. That low a score indicates someone who is not ready to succeed in most competitive colleges.</p>
<p>My cousin is also a 3.7 + GPA student taking a mainly college prep load with a couple of honors classes mixed in. She got in the 1200s (out of 2400) on her first try at the SAT, and that was after some tutoring. On her PSAT, she scored in the 1100s. I don’t think she has a learning disability, I think the score reflects the fact that her high school is pretty weak - maybe one kid every few years goes to an Ivy-level school, the top 10% of the class goes to Rutgers or other comparable schools, and the rest go to lower tier state schools or CCs. My cousin, whose CR + M score is about 950, is now looking at Montclair State and Westchester University in Pennsylvania - her SAT score is on the low end, but she thinks the grades will compensate. I think Kean is probably a safe four year option for her, but I think she has a real shot at the others as well.</p>
<p>If I were the OP, I would get my daughter tutoring and have her practice. Above all, I’d have her study vocabulary - even if she has issues with language, just learning the words would boost her score. Most review books have lists of commonly used SAT words. Test strategy is also important - when my cousin took the PSAT, she didn’t even realize that there was a penalty for guessing, and answered every question. However, my goal in this would not be to get her into a top school, but with the hope that, assuming the score improves, she can look at a local, lower tier state school or comparable private rather than the CC she’d be looking at with her current scores.</p>
<p>The SAT is not a perfect test, but it does tell you something about a student’s skill level. Test anxiety alone or poor test prep alone would not produce that low a score.</p>
<p>it really just depends what this individual wants in terms of college</p>
<p>i think that, at this point, taking an SAT subject test does not make much sense, as the student does not test well and any school that she would have a realistic shot at would not need that test, and a decent score on a subject test would not counter-balance a bad one on the SAT</p>
<p>similarly, while she may do slightly better on the ACT, i highly doubt that her results would be significantly better than the SAT, because it seems that there is a bigger problem than nuances between these two standardized tests</p>
<p>IMO, it seems that a CC for one or two years would be the most logical step, as such an environment may be more helpful to the development of said student.</p>
<p>however, if she has the drive, intelligence, and determination to succeed at a 4 year college, definitely have her look into schools that don’t require the SAT or ACT</p>
<p>First of all, thank you everybody for your advice and assistance. I’m beyond words.</p>
<p>To the people who mentioned the possibility of misbubbling: It’s certainly a possibility, and I’ll try and convince her to take a practice SAT and have her score it herself. Although, I can say with some degree of certainty, that there won’t be much of a change in her scores.</p>
<p>She is currently taking the most rigorous courses our school offers, which includes Honors and AP courses. Although, AP courses and Honors classes could certainly be more, er, strict in their admittance.</p>
<p>She was born in America, but her family is from South Asia, which, as 9sofine9 stated, may have a lot to do with her writing and reading capabilities. She’s intelligent, but she can’t seem to convey her thoughts into written language and also struggles with higher level vocabulary and sentence structure in literature.</p>
<p>And to the possibility of dyslexia: I sincerely hope that that isn’t what the problem is, but I’ll keep that suggestion in mind.</p>
<p>Tell her simply this: take at least 10 official College Board SAT practice tests this summer. And by that, I mean buy the blue book 2nd edit. for 10 bucks.</p>
<p>Every time she finishes a practice test, she should review her wrong answers to see why she got them wrong(thus patch her holes), and review her right answers to see what she’s doing right(and continue doing so). Quality review is key to the benefit of a practice test. Oh, and she shouldn’t do a whole SAT test in sitting.</p>
<p>If she has the discipline to do this, she’ll get at least a 2000. Otherwise…yeah, a 1100 is horrible.</p>
<p>Her strong GPA and low IQ are a great fit for a variety of majors. PM me for details to avoid turning this thread into a flame war.</p>
<p>Except, Hannibal, straight SAT/IQ correlation is not the only metric that depicts “giftedness.” There are myriad other types of true intelligence that simply aren’t as easy to define.
That said, I do put a lot of stock in the verbal and conceptual intelligence that SAT demonstrates, and I truly suspect that if the following is true:</p>
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<p>then she may very well have either a processing speed issue (hence the difficulty with timed test), inattentive type ADD (difficulty in organizing/conveying thoughts quickly can be symptomatic), dyslexia or some other issue that could be treated with a combination of nutrition/medication and cognitive behavior therapy or accommodations such as extra time.</p>
<p>The OP, in this case, should perhaps suggest to her and her parents that an 1100 SAT simply does not correlate to the capacity to perform at a 3.7 GPA, and that this gap signifies a neuropsych evaluation is in order so that if accommodations are warranted, they can be put in place in time to allow the true picture of her capability to emerge to college admissions counsellors.</p>
<p>High GPA and low SATs generally point to grade inflation. Try working on the ACT?</p>
<p>Yeah if I were a college admissions person, my first thought would be that the high school was substandard. I don’t know if this is true at all, and given what you’ve said about her language issues may not be the problem. The other most likely cause (that a college counselor might suspect) is hard worker with low aptitude. Again, you said she’s intelligent, so with that as a given I can only suggest that you recommend that she do whatever is necessary to overcome her language issues.</p>
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<p>Are you being serious? SAT (IQ) is one of the least relevant things to earning a strong GPA in countless majors. For some people, intelligence can even be a detriment (and for others a benefit, and for others a crutch, depends on who you are). I would put far greater stock in this girl getting a good GPA in college than 9 out of 10 high school students with strong-ish SATs (1800+) and high school GPAs under 3.3. This girl has been treating school like serious business since she was at least 12. The high-IQ students have to suddenly start applying themselves while being tempted by hot 18 year olds and alcoholism, as well as the insatiable urge to sleep until 3pm. </p>
<p>Current GPA correlates with future GPA. SAT/IQ correlates with job performance/aptitude. Aptitude is far less important when performing academic work than in performing real work (and it irrelevant in the real world for getting promotions, past a certain minimum threshold - thus, GPA is King and Aptitude is a serf/waif/peasant/fool/royal jester). You can do a project in college, apply your strong critical thinking skills and high IQ, do a bang-up job, and get an 83. Happens all the time. Students who half-assed the project completely, including a paper written piecemeal with loathsome grammar, would receive something like an 81, or, if the professor really wanted to give it to them, a - gasp - 79. Due to central tendency in many professors’ grading, many don’t really give out As, and at the same time they also don’t really give anything less than a C. The girl with a strong GPA and low IQ would be better at swallowing her pride - she’d go to office hours and request help - the cryptic, esoteric, bass-ackwards nature of the professor’s hitherto secretive rubric would be revealed to her. She is the only one who knows that you have to cite exactly 5 sources (the 83 group cited 3 because "it doesn’t matter; was docked 10 points), but get bonus points for citing over 8 sources. 95. Strong GPA. Game, set, match. You can print that.</p>
<p>And by the way, while projects may be an important part of your grade, tests are still far more important, with the project being maybe 20% at best and the tests being 60-80% of the grade. Tests based mainly on memorization, with nearly unlimited time to study (which most students don’t utilize, due to pride and the self-delusion that they have lives), and worth huge amounts of your grade. The strong-GPA/low-IQ type is at an even bigger advantage when studying for tests due to his or her strong memory and lack of pride. Aptitude is even less relevant here, except, arguably, in majors that make you take tests extremely quickly. However in my experience this just means that you have to study more, hence giving the strong GPA/low-IQ students an even bigger advantage over weak-GPA/high-IQ students, but perhaps with a slightly higher minimum threshold for aptitude/IQ to succeed.</p>
<p>^A person with good GPA usually gets good standardized test scores. Having one without the other raises an instant red flag. While there are some people with an unimpressive SAT score relative to their GPAs do very well in college, there are many with similar profiles suffer due to the workload of college classes or whatever the cause may be.
There’s no doubt that GPA is a better indicator of success than the SAT, but kmccrindle’s got a point. I bet the people with good gpa+good SAT scores are main bunch who do well in college. Good gpa+low SAT scores? maybe not so much…</p>
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<p>A person with a high GPA does NOT usually get good standardized test scores. Where are you getting your information from? Females get better GPAs in high school as well as college, but they get lower average SAT scores, and much fewer high scores than males:</p>
<p><a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools;
<p>So what is the correlation? Maybe it’s a reverse correlation.</p>
<p>I was valedictorian and I thought that my 1350/1600 was low… definitely have her take the ACT, it stresses more of what you learned in school rather than complete aptitude/logic. I got a 32 on that, an equivalent of a 1420 of the SAT. If she’s serious about doing good on the reading/writing, improving vocabulary is a must. Have her study the sparknotes 1000 list, after studying it, I went from missing 10 in vocabulary in CR to missing none… it really helps with not only vocab questions and passage questions, but also your general writing. Or if she has the money, get a private tutor.</p>
<p>To keep this thread from turning into a complete flame war, lets just say this:</p>
<p>The SAT is an exam to let colleges separate students on a national level. It’s not that arduous to understand at all. The SAT was made simply because of the fact of colleges realizing that some high schools are stronger, or weaker, than others. So, an A in one High School can mean a C in another High School etc. </p>
<p>In regard to what Whistleblower1 said, usually a person with a high gpa is EXPECTED to get a high SAT score. However, as said above: some schools are weaker than others. So, her school is most likely weak which means that she didn’t learn much…in turn leading to a high gpa (that is inflated because the courses are easier) and a low sat score, which shows she is weak on a national scale…and that most likely she will not do well in college. </p>
<p>Your basis of her “high-gpa” is invalid, because her gpa is inflated. Collegeboard is citing schools that actually are good, and have courses that you have to study extremely hard to earn your high grades in. When collegeboard cites from these schools, it makes sense that these students would do well in college because they will not have to play catch up (by having to take remedial high school courses in college again), and they can jump directly into their college work since they have a strong foundation from understanding the basics thought in high school.</p>
<p>Clearly this girl needs to take the ACT w/ writing. Its an ideal solution, as it is slightly easier. Nothing is wrong with getting a low SAT score, it does not make you “stupid” or mean you have “medical disorders”. It just raises a red flag to certain colleges that the students high school may be weak, hence why a low scoring SAT student has a high gpa.
Nothing is wrong with her girl, however something is wrong with her high school. </p>
<p>And just another side note, the key is practice. It’s summer, so you have at least a good part of July and August to practice. When I used to study for my SAT, i jumped about 530 points in two weeks…have her take a prep course and do practice tests from collegeboard SAT book. Any student can do well in the SAT, the key is practice though.</p>
<p>High GPAs are dime a dozen.
High SATs are rarer than high GPAs.</p>
<p>Tell her she should practice, practice, and practice this summer. With 1-2 hours a day she could easily bring her score to around 1600 - 1800.</p>
<p>summer’s still young, so she may try the ACT or retake the SAT; she still has some time. But if it’s language related skills, the best advice I can give is READ and VOCAB. I did this and my CR went from 400s to 600s, in less than one summer’s worth of time. I was also working 8 hours a day at the time too; it should also help with the essay on the SAT. Your friend definitely has a chance; all is not lost.</p>
<p>Also, I really hate to burst her bubble but 3.7/4.0 doesn’t stand out for top-notch schools. Yes it can get you into a good local school and some nice public ones, but if you’re talking great private school, no, and even more so for ivies. While high SATs are rarer than high GPAs (I had a 3.9/4.0 GPA but only a 2130 SAT; I was rejected by literally eall but one top-notch school I applied to), it’s your friend’s only chance, because her GPA is what it is.</p>
<p>My son goes to California State University Sacramento (CSUS) where the average SAT scores for entering freshmen are CR 470, M 490 for a total of 960 (CSUs do not consider the Writing section of the SAT). My son had a 1,260/1600 so he is on the high side for CSUS. A student with an 1100/2400 would be projected to have CR plus Math total scores of 733. At this particular CSU only about 40% of the students who enter ever graduate with a BA or BS. These statistics on SAT scores of admitted students’ success at actually graduating are typical of the other CSUs. If the majority of students with average CR+M scores of 960 lack the ability to do college level work and get a degree my feeling is that a student who could only manage a CR+M of 733 has close to a 0% chance of earning a college degree. </p>
<p>There is an enormous variation in the rigor of high schools in this country and it would not at all be unusual for a student to get a 3.7 GPA at one high school and have trouble even graduating from another one. College is usually much more difficult than high school and standards in the rigor of the work required do not vary that much between them. CSU Sacramento uses the same math and science textbooks as UC Berkeley and similar mastery of the material is required at both schools. The Difference is that the average CR+M SAT scores of Freshmen entering UC Berkeley is about 1,360 and the drop-out/flunk-out rate there is far less than it is at CSUS. UC Berkeley’s much high graduation rate than CSU Sacramento’s graduation rate is almost certainly the result of having a much higher percentage of students of its students able to do college level work.</p>
<p>I think we have to recognize that a certain minimum level of academic aptitude, which the SAT measures fairly well, is required to succeed in college and those that do not have this minimum aptitude are wasting their time and money trying to get into and graduate from college. I don’t know what the minimum SAT score is for a reasonable chance of graduating from college but my informal observations in California indicate that it is a lot higher than 1100 out of 2400.</p>