Scenario: High GPA, extremely low SAT score.

College Search & Selection
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<p>I didn’t do great on my SATs, but I don’t think that my HS was weak. I have a way better GPA than a lot of kids in my class, but they scored 2000+ on their SATs. I just don’t test great. My sister was the same way…Her SAT scores were average, but she graduated 3rd in her class with a pretty rigorous schedule. She now attends Holy Cross (an SAT optional school) and is on the deans list there. I also know a lot of people that are just plain lazy and have awesome SAT scores, but are now getting to college and struggling with the workload. </p>

<p>Anyway, my point is if she works hard enough, she can do decent in most colleges. She shouldn’t have a test discourage her.</p>

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<p>I was reading this thread and wondering how she got a 3.7 GPA if her test taking skills are so weak. How did she do on tests in school? Is this SAT score a surprise because she usually does well on tests or does she usually mess up on tests?</p>

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<p>1100 out of 2400 is very low. Either retake it or apply to schools that don’t need the score.</p>

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<p>Grade inflation or hard working student at a non-competitive high school. Perhaps both.</p>

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Really? So you’re saying usually 4.0 students get 1700/2400 SAT? Then who gets 2100+ SAT scores? 3.0 students?</p>

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From experience.

And your point is? We all know that SAT isn’t a good indicator of college sucess. GPA+SAT is a very good combination. Merely pointing out that the discrepancy between the GPAs and SATs of both sex is irrelevant.</p>

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So, people with low SAT scores often get high gpa, whereas those with low gpa often get high SAT scores?
Yep, sounds very logical.</p>

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<p>My GPA is high, my SAT just slightly above average, and I’m first in my class. I don’t know if your friend goes to a weak high school, but I do. I find my classes unable to stimulate me, and I find my mind stagnating. I knew I wasn’t as bright as my GPA indicates, and my SAT showed it, but that didn’t stop me from doing well in the college class I took now in the summer at Villanova. I got a B+ in Gen Chem I and an A in lab. Tell your friend not to beat herself up, she’s just a raw diamond waiting to be polished.</p>

<p>Remember what I said about your friend being an immigrant and unable to express herself in English adequately? I had the same problem up to last year when I took AP lit and US hist. I speak only Chinese in my house so all things pertaining to domestic life like detergent and dresser I did not know. I could express my thoughts very well in Chinese, but would often stumble in English because I would not know the proper words or idioms to convey my thoughts. </p>

<p>From what my older friends tell me, there’s no difference academically between going to penn or penn state; you learn all the same material. It’s the product of your labor that’s going to separate you from everyone else. </p>

<p>And the SAT prep stuff: I see it as a bunch of money grubbing schemes. getting lessons to make your scores higher isn’t going to make you more intelligent. If anything, I see it as a waste of time and money, especially now during summer where you can be working and saving up for college. I had a lady come to my school trying to sell us SAT lessons for a few hundred dollars…none of my classmates or I were having any of it. We weren’t going to spend our money to “pretty” ourselves up so we can get into a big name and famous school. It’s superficial and elitist. Rather than spend time on SAT, I spent time on my AP exams which I believe are much more useful in the future. like I said before, working hard on my AP Lit and US hist really help me develop my writing, reading, and speaking skills which in turn helped me on my SAT. originally, I had a 1250/2400, but a mere 6 months later, i boosted to 1700/2400 all without spending time or money on it. If I spend time studying for the SAT like the users here, I’m sure I could get to 2000, but I don’t care about that. I’m more concerned about paying for college, so i work 25 hours a week now, and enjoying my last bit of childhood, so I play soccer and spend time around the neighborhood. Like someone said before, there are a bunch of schools that don’t care about the SAT, and I’m actually looking at one now, College of the Holy Cross. so best of luck to your friend :slight_smile: (you should get her to come here to the forum)</p>

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<p>You cannot get a 1100 on the SAT, 400 is the minimum score you can get on a section. ■■■■■ thread</p>

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<p>I thought that 200 was the lowest score that you could geton each section. My niece got around 1100. She goes to a vocational/technical school, with a health professions major. She has a 3.4ish GPA. She failed the HSPA (NJ’s HS proficiency test) twice, but takes Honors English and will take APUSH. She’s in the top 10% of her class. I suppose the courses at her school aren’t too challenging. I’ll be working with her to try to improve her scores (and advised her to take the ACT. About to get the blue book too).</p>

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Get your facts straight. It’s 200 per section. 800 is the min.</p>

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<p>Um…600 is the minimum as there are only 3 sections on the SAT.</p>

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<p>4.0 students definitely average something well under 2000, and there are people of all GPAs getting high SAT scores. I can only name one or two people at the top 20% or so of my high school class who did well on the SAT, but I know 6 or 7 underachievers who did well on it. Some of this has to do with the top of the class being girls, and some of it has to do with the detrimental effects that rote memorization has on one’s IQ.</p>

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<p>How is it not logical? You know the facts, are you just going to ignore them? Obviously circumstances will differ depending on the environment, but in the typical environment where girls overachieve and boys underachieve, there should be some type of reverse correlation on the top half of the bell curve.</p>

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<p>You could get a full scholarship with a high enough SAT score, especially with your strong GPA.</p>

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<p>Okay, whistleblower, there’s a bit of spotty logic in your posts about this that needs to be cleaned up. I realize you appear to be relying on empirical evidence alone. There is not and never has been an inverse relationship (statistically speaking) between SAT and GPA performance overall. However, there are certainly OCCASIONS where a naturally intelligent student will seriously UNDERPERFORM GPA-wise (eg. social issues, ADD, addiction, depression, nutritional deprivation, unfavorable home environment etc.), or where a serious, hard-working student that lacks NATIVE aptitude more than makes up for it by optimizing what she or he DOES with his or her brain in terms of daily performance. Intelligence, as it turns out, is indeed plastic to some degree, and can expand.</p>

<p>BUT the whole metric for identifying learning disabilities in children and young adults is analyzing APTITUDE, as shown by tests that have been proven to correlate highly to SAT and ACT performance (all things being equal, eg. the Stanford-Binet or Wescheler IQ tests) and PERFORMANCE as indicated by school performance, performance on a battery of tests, etc. So SOMETIMES what a high GPA with a VERY LOW SAT or ACT score actually means that the timed test is not accurately reflecting the native intelligence or performance capability of the student because something, such as delayed processing speed, test anxiety, dyslexia, is interfering with the response. And SOMETIMES students with a very HIGH SAT or ACT who have very low GPAs also have a learning disability, such as the incapacity to hear what is said in class (central auditory processing disorder), a problem with working memory (ADD-inattentive type) or other extenuating factors.</p>

<p>The fact that there are students of each type (High scores -Low GPA, High GPA-Low Scores) does not mean the “inverse is true” so your comment “You Know the Facts” makes no sense at all. There are not facts to be known that support your position that there is either an inverse correlation or no correlation between aptitude (whether SAT or IQ) and performance (GPA).
In fact, it you take two of the top schools in our state in terms of reputation for rigor, awards, etc., you would note that the average ACT of each entire schools is between 27 and 29 respectively (1800 and up SAT equivalent; IQ equivalent starting at 127; top 3.5 percentile); the equivalent of the “Very Superior” range. By your example, these high-performing, frequently-full-riding students of these gifted/talented schools should have LOWER THAN NORMAL scores. It is simply not possible.</p>

<p>What the phenomenon of the variances cited means is merely that there are always exceptions and anomalies. It is far more common to find that good students are able to score well on aptitude tests, and that good test-takers with native logic perform well in school.</p>

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<p>Ok, um, I have a question. I have an overall GPA of 3.8/4.0, am in the International Baccalaureate program (similar to AP courses, except it is for all four years of high school) good recommendations, plenty of extracurriculars and an internship in a neurology lab, but I only got a 1990 on the SAT…I have good writing skills, but I’m really unsure if every strength in my application will be outweighed by my poor SAT score, especially b/c I want to apply to BS/MD programs in the country.</p>

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<p>I’m having trouble taking this thread at face value although OP seems sincere. I’ll take the bait, and suggest that other explanations for the discrepancies might be ferreted out by taking AP and SAT subject tests. It might also be informative to ask the student to take a math SAT practice test and write down his/her work for each problem. </p>

<p>I would try to sort out if the question asked is understood; if the problem solving approach is reasonable; or if silly errors in arithmetic are occurring. Learning disabilities are an interesting suggestion, but I find it a bit hard to believe they would not have been noticed earlier if that is the cause of the SAT performance.</p>

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sorry, i had no idea how i came up with 800 LOL. my bad</p>

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So on average, in your school, people with lower GPAs get higher SAT scores? Yeah okay.</p>

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There’s no point in arguing, given a response like that. I’m out.</p>

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<p>My admittedly vague recollection of SAT II scoring is that indeed the absolute range is 200 - 800 per sub-test, but random guessing puts the bottom scores at 350 or so. I’m far from positive this is correct though, so please, no one should rely on my memory.</p>

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<p>First of all, what is the math/critical reading score out of 1600? That what most colleges want to see. The minimum score is 200 if you get a score at all. One of my kids got a 380 on a section. And, yes, there are folks who do terribly on tests like that, especially when they take 3 hours of focus and test taking. Test prep would really help; as a rule, the lower a score, the higher the potential for increase, so definitely, it is worth while for the student to practice and retake.</p>

<p>I recommend such a student to throw in some test optional schools in the mix, along with some open enrollment local schools as safeties. Those will be the choices,unless the scores can be increased in the Math/CR sections.</p>

<p>I suggest, that the student look into this issue s/he has. Though s/he will find a college, this can have future implications. I know two boys who had test handicaps, but did well in school for much of their early lives. Their mother is an educator and was able to find ways around the issue and exceptions made for the low test scores. But in adulthood, it can become a problem. There are many jobs and situations that require decent test taking skills and if you are that bad at taking tests, you have to steer away from those things, and they may well be things you want to do. Military, government,nursing, police, cpa, teaching certification are just some examples of tests required. My son had to take some tests to get promoted and full time status at some stores to go beyond the minimum wage scale. It can be an issue, though for right now, it is not a huge problem,=.</p>

<p>I sympathize as I have a rising hs senior who does not test well with excellent grades. He pulled a 4.0 this year with all honors and AP courses. Has over a 3.5 average for freshman and soph years. His brother, currently in college had a straight forward 3.0 with no As or Cs at all during high school. Because he had 2300+ SAT1s, he was accepted to top 25 schools, including an ivy. He also got an array of merit offers. According to the Naviance charts, the highschooler who doesn’t test well isn’t going to fare as well. In fact, it isn’t advisable for him to be applying to some of the schools that his brother had as real options, and forget about merit money. He does not make the cut to the honors programs at schools, nor is he eligible for merit money from the likes of schools like Gettysburg, Fairfield, Fordham which he wants on his list, we can’t afford, and are the same schools that offered significant merit money to his brother. </p>

<p>So, yes, there are implications to low or not high enough SAT scores. They do make a difference if you are looking for merit money. Even the fairtest schools want high SAT scores when they are awarding scholarship money.</p>

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<p>I think that we may have sidetracked just a bit, but, regardless, I truly appreciate everyone’s input.</p>

<p>Her writing and CR scores, for those who asked, were in the low 300s. Her math score, somewhere in the mid to high 400s, was her highest mark. As previously stated, her writing and reading comprehension skills are, compared to the majority in her age group, compromised. Coupled with the time limits imposed by the SAT, as she is a very slow reader, the outcome was to be expected for those two scores.</p>

<p>In any event, she’s scheduled to take the ACT in September and to retake the SAT in October. She’s currently more concerned with her math score, as it’s doubtful that two months of SAT preparation will really see a dramatic increase in her CR and writing scores, at least that’s what she thinks. </p>

<p>For the time being, however, I gave her the advice that all of you have suggested she take. She is in the process of looking into some community colleges and SAT optional schools and will base her decisions on her upcoming SAT and ACT marks.</p>

<p>Thank you all again so much for your suggestions and advice! They’ve all been taken to heart.</p>

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<p>Actually, my opinion is that she should concentrate on Math. Even though that was her best score, the average Math score for all test takers is slighltly over 500 so it would not be seen as a major strength or have a score in the 400s. The score in Math can be improved by simply knowing basic things like the Pythagorean Theorem, Quadratic formula, the law of exponents and the formulas for areas and volumes of things like circles, spheres, rectangles, triangles and pyramids. If she buys one of the SAT prep books and spends at least an hour a day doing practice problems similar to those on the SAT there is a good chance she could improve her score by as much as 100 points. </p>

<p>She might be able to marginally improve her writing score by writing practice essays and have someone check them for correct grammer and spelling. Even if her writing style is not particularly good she should get at least a 400 if she can eliminate grammatical and spelling errors.</p>

<p>Critical Reading, on the other hand, is probably largely innate and not very coachable. Reading a difficult passage and then answering subtle and ambiguous questions on it is a skill that someone is probably born with a certain aptitude for and is furhter developed over a lifetime, therefore a few months of even intense preparation probably will not increase her score by much.</p>

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<p>Hi collegeattempt,</p>

<p>If your friend has a learning disability or ADHD or etc, she can ask collegeboard to give her extended testing time.</p>

<p>For her SAT self-preparation, buy the Official Study Guide, published by the collegeboard, and use the SAT forums for help.
If possible, get an effective tutor since she doesn’t have much time, and it might be helpful.</p>

<p>Good luck with her studies.</p>