<p>To return to page 1 of this thread, BUandBC82 was trying to understand how UNC selects students for scholarships and honors. We attended the “Carolina 101” on-campus event on March 20, 2010. The final session included a talk by Erin Breese, Senior Assistant Director of Admissions. The following are notes I took of how merit scholarships are determined:</p>
<p>“Fewer than 300 students (less then 8% of students) will receive a merit scholarship. The admissions committee makes an initial cut of about 1,000. Then, the faculty makes the next cut. The application essay is equivalent to a cover letter that a job applicant would include with a resume. You should pay a lot of attention to the essay. Figure out what would make it different from the thousands of other cover letters we will read. What will make a faculty member say, ‘I want that student in my class room!’”</p>
<p>Also, the following are from notes I took from another talk that Erin Breese gave, this one in Fall 2009: “Applicants are asked to submit a Letter of Recommendation. It has a big impact in qualifying for the Honors Program, and for scholarships. It should focus on something that is special about you.”</p>
<p>So, from the two talks that Erin gave, my conclusion is that “luck of the draw” plays a significant role in who is selected for merit scholarships and the Honors Program. Think about what it must be like for the faculty to have to sift through the first-cut pile of 1,000 highly-qualified applications! As a point of reference, almost 1,000 of the Fall 2010 Freshman class scored a 1400 or better on the Reading + Math portion of the SAT.</p>
<p>The following is a clue about the scholarship recipients, taken from the August 2007 version of the “Scholarship FAQs” page of the UNC Website:</p>
<p>"What is the typical academic profile of a scholarship recipient at UNC-Chapel Hill?</p>
<p>“Since scholarship criteria vary depending on the scholarship, awards are not subject to a minimum SAT score or class rank. Because of the limited number of scholarship awards, and given the selectivity of the University, competition for scholarships is very stiff, and recipients automatically tend to be at the top of their high school classes and have very high SAT scores. For example, the average SAT combined score for Carolina Scholars is 1520.”</p>
<p>Interestingly the current version is different. In particular, the final sentence quoting the 1520 SAT has been dropped:</p>
<p>Finally, the current version of the “Scholarship FAQs” page also mentions that, “Approximately 180 merit-based scholarships are given annually to qualified incoming freshmen by the Office of Scholarships and Student Aid.” Earlier, I quoted Erin Breese as saying that the number is “fewer then 300 students.” I suspect that UNC offers close to 300 merit scholarships a year, but only about 180 students accept the offers; that is, choose to attend UNC.</p>
<p>Meadowbrookcourt, thanks for that very valuable information. Interesting that the final sentence re 1520+ SAT has been dropped. (For the record: We never expected a Carolina Scholars scholarship, which indeed is reserved for the most exceptional students [at least as far as SAT I scores go]…)</p>
<p>I certainly do appreciate the difficulty of the selection committee’s job. But I still hope against hope for some sort of merit aid, especially considering that essays and the teacher rec were both very strong in DS’s case. One can always hope, can’t one? Hope springs eternal… </p>
<p>And meanwhile one also looks at other options. :)</p>
<p>Sorry for whining so much earlier. Was just in a bad mood.</p>
<p>Diane</p>
<p>P.S. Y’know…there aren’t that many 1520±scoring kids in the entire country, let alone in NC. Somehow I’m finding it hard to believe that they all end up at UNC. (I find it even harder to believe that they all post at College Confidential, but that’s a whole 'nuther thing, LOL.)</p>
<p>smsbmom – forgot to add: Whether DS goes to UNC or to Alabama’s Honors College, he will be surrounded by bright kids. So, it’s six of one, half dozen of the other – except that Bama, at this point, is actually affordable for us.</p>
<p>And, believe me, DS very much wants to be surrounded by bright kids. He is under no illusion that he’s some sort of hyper-exceptional superstar. He wants an intellectually stimulating environment. He wants to be able to carry on intelligent conversations with other intellectually curious kids.</p>
<p>I hope you will try to understand: We are concerned about merit aid because we want to afford college – and merit aid is the only way we can do so, without blitzing our retirement savings at the very point when we are getting set to retire.</p>
<p>I think a lot of families are in our boat and share our concerns. Not everyone out there has a $200K-plus HHI.</p>
<p>And now I will shut up about this. Obviously, I have already said far too much. Thanks for your patience, and sorry for straining it. :D</p>
<p>Diane - Your son sounds great. I appreciate your frustration about your situation; I can agree with all of your frustrations. We are fortunate to have such an incredible school as Carolina as our state flagship. Is everything about it perfect? No way. Do I think any school is really all-that? Nope. It’s all in what you make of it and it sounds as if your son will make the most of his education and that is what matters. </p>
<p>Our S is in the top .5% of his high school which sends more grads to Carolina than most in the state. (This year we had 5 Morehead Cain semi finalists) There are a lot of incredible kids in NC, more than you can imagine. So no matter how great we think he is, there is another impressive one around the corner. This whole process is a numbers game (both admissions and $$$) and I have no idea where he’ll end up. Carolina was his only EA, so we are waiting, waiting on his other choices.</p>
<p>This is a great place to whine, I agree! And feel free. As long as we are not all freaking out at the same time, we’ll be alright.</p>
<p>You commented that, “there aren’t that many 1520±scoring kids in the entire country, let alone in NC.” Here are the statistics:</p>
<p>1,547,990 seniors who were bound for college in 2010 took the SAT. Of those, 11,826 had Reading+Math scores of 1520 or better; that is, 0.764%, or about 1 out of every 131.</p>
<p>I do not have the Reading+Math SAT scores for North Carolina. However, I do know that, in 2008-2009, there were 45,376 NC public school students who took the SAT. Of those:</p>
<p>1) 344 (0.758%) scored 760 or better (1/2 of 1520) on the Reading.</p>
<p>2) 426 (0.939%) scored 760 or better on the Math. </p>
<p>Of course, there has to have been quite a bit of overlap between the two. Likewise, many who scored 1520 or better on the Reading+Math scored less than 760 on either the Reading or the Math. However, clearly the number of NC kids who scored 1520 or better numbered in the low hundreds. </p>
<p>Finally, if you apply the national rate 0.764% to North Carolina, that would translate to 347 who scored 1520 or better.</p>
<p>…which isn’t a heck of a lot. And I bet not all of them enroll at UNC. (Our own glassesarechic, an in-state kid with stellar stats, has indicated that she prefers to attend UChicago.)</p>
<p>The daughter of a colleague scored 1550. She did end up at UNC, but up until the last minute she was planning on enrolling at Oberlin.</p>
<p>My DH focused on prepping DS for the SAT II subject tests, so he didn’t have DS retake the SAT I. According to several large UCal studies, the SAT II is actually a much better predictor of academic success in college than the SAT I. But, to our chagrin, most colleges don’t seem to care two figs about the SAT II – probably because it doesn’t figure into USNews&WR rankings. DS scored a combined 1590 on the Math II & Latin SAT IIs. Apparently he did not get a single question wrong on the Latin SAT. He should have saved himself the effort, as it doesn’t seem to matter a hill of beans to anyone. Oh well, live and learn. We won’t make the same dumb mistakes with son #2.</p>
<p>P.S. BTW–thanks for figuring that all out. I’m a math nincompoop, and my head was spinning, LOL!</p>
<p>P.P.S. According to College Board, DS’s SAT I scores were in the 98th percentile for NC. Not spectacular but certainly within the realm for a merit scholarship somewhere in the UNC system! That’s what makes it so frustrating: The disappointments are coming from everywhere – UNC Asheville, AppState, you name it. Sorry for whining again! It’s just the cumulative effect of all these disappointments, one after another. UNC is but one among several.</p>
<p>I think the take-away from this is that it is not all about test scores. I could be wrong, but I think state schools tend to be less holistic in their approach to admissions but can be more so in their merit scholarships. You’d know more than I whether he is being penalized for the being home-schooled (silly, I know).</p>
<p>In the graduating class of 2010, 14,673 NC students took the ACT. Six NC students scored higher than 35 (i.e, scored 36), so my daughter’s 35 placed her in the 99.96th percentile of NC test-takers. Carolina says it accepts either the ACT or the SAT, so my D submitted her 35 ACT, which was slightly higher in comparison to her SAT according to the concordance tables. She did not receive an invitation to scholarship day or to the honors college.</p>
<p>My D had an excellent application in other ways as well. I think we will never know why she was not invited to either SD or HC. I was disappointed but am holding out hope that she might receive a non-scholarship-day scholarship later in the process.</p>
<p>Schokolade, your daughter sounds amazing. I agree–it’s a mystery why she didn’t get the SD & Honors invites.</p>
<p>Like you, we hold out hope for one of the snail-mail scholarships.</p>
<p>Personally, I’m not interested in the prestige or bragging rights associated with a scholarship. I just want to be able to afford my son’s college costs. It’s a purely practical thing. I assume it’s that way for a lot of us.</p>
<p>Wow! Even though I only graduated from an SEC school (Florida) I knew what land-locked and necrosis mean. However, you sent me scurrying, full speed, to dictionary.com for a definition of postlapsarian. Even at 57, I learn something new every day. </p>
<p>DD got accepted to UNC & BC, and is waiting on others. She will probably not attend UNC, much to her aunt’s chagrin, as she liked Boston better than Chapel Hill. Bright side about your DS going to Alabama: he will be exposed to real college football and much better BBQ than in NC.</p>
<p>I feel like I should post in here to give some perspective to this conversation. I got invited to the Honors Program, which as stated, comprises roughly 300 students in the incoming class, but if you think about is closer to 200-250 if you take all the Morehead-Cain and Robertson Scholars.</p>
<p>My SAT: 1400. ACT: 33. Rank: Top 10/~450. Good stats, but nothing stellar.</p>
<p>ECs, Recs, Essays: The only thing I could have done to make them better was to cure cancer. You can check my stats/previous “chance” threads if you’d like a more in-depth look at them.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, I’m not here to brag. I’ve read every post on this thread and felt like I was the perfect case of the kid without the fancy SAT scores who got into the Honors Program. </p>
<p>Just my 2 cents on the previous discussion: My parents are in a similar position as you financially, LadyDianeski, but we were never bitter about not receiving an invitation to Scholarship Day. I feel like although your anger/bitterness is understandable, you’ve gone through virtually every thread pertaining to this topic and pretty much bashed UNC and other schools for not giving your child scholarship money.</p>
<p>I do understand that he is homeschooled and I actually respect that very much, but you have to realize that scholarships, barring the schools that “buy-out” NMFs and high SATs, are based on a more holistic approach. Although your son may be very social/outgoing in real life, on paper he may come across as a student who can just take a standardized test very well, which is not something a professor would look for in the “ideal” student.</p>
<p>I am by no means trying to make you feel bad or anything by those means. I am simply saying that although you’re not in the most desirable of situations, lashing out at every school who didn’t present your son with scholarship money just makes the situation worse. He already got a great ride to Bama, so why get bitter at UNC or UNCA?</p>
<p>My OOS brother, a National AP Scholar and National Merit Scholar with loads of perfect scores, a national award in a major time-consuming EC, published research, a “one-of-the-few-in-my-career of teaching grad students at an Ivy” type recommendation, did not get any scholarships or honors program from UNC. In the end, after being accepted at several top 10-15 U’s and into programs with <5% acceptance rates, and given full tuition merit from higher ranking places, he gave up on Chapel Hill. This is just to show how completely random the selection process feels. </p>
<p>I may give up on Chapel Hill as well for better scholarships and Honors Program offers that I already have. I heard only 30 OOS scholarships were offered. It’s diasappointing but not surprising after my brother’s experience. But I’m really happy with my other offers so far. I wish everybody well who is lucky enough to have it all work out for them to be there.</p>
<p>Though I do think I was qualified, because I didn’t believe that being qualified necessarily meant merit or Honors invites would come, I’m not feeling let down. I’m just moving on. Access to smaller Honors sections from the start would have been a major attraction, but it was not meant to be. Wish me luck at my Harvard interview!</p>
<p>On the bright side, I won’t miss the pork BBQ as a vegan!</p>
<p>My OOS brother, a National AP Scholar and National Merit Scholar with loads of perfect scores, a national award in a major time-consuming EC, published research, a “one-of-the-few-in-my-career of teaching grad students at an Ivy” type recommendation, did not get any scholarships or honors program from UNC. In the end, after being accepted at several top 10-15 U’s and into programs with <5% acceptance rates, and given full tuition merit from higher ranking places, he gave up on Chapel Hill. This is just to show how completely random the selection process feels. </p>
<p>I may give up on Chapel Hill as well for better scholarships and Honors Program offers that I already have. I heard only 30 OOS scholarships were offered. It’s diasappointing but not surprising after my brother’s experience. But I’m really happy with my other offers so far. I wish everybody well who is lucky enough to have it all work out for them to be there.</p>
<p>golfer, for the record: I am not “lashing out” at NC schools. I am expressing disappointment, based on financial concerns. Forgive me for saying so, but I don’t think an 18-year-old can appreciate these concerns the way a hard-working parent can. ;)</p>
<p>Do I think NC schools are short-sighted for being so stingy with merit funds? Yes, I do. Do I think they will lose very qualified students as a result? Yes, I do. In fact, I know it is already happening. And I cannot see how that is good for North Carolina. Just my two cents’ worth, to which I am entitled.</p>
<p>As I’ve said before, I’m sorry for venting and whining so much recently…I was simply in a bad mood. If you do not like my comments, there’s a simple solution: Don’t read them. :)</p>
<p>BTW–why must all college kids be outgoing? (My older son is, but why must he be?) Why does a “holistic” approach mean rewarding extroversion? What does extroversion have to do with academic success in college? </p>
<p>Same thing with all this “leadership” stuff. Why does everyone have to be a “leader” outside the classroom?</p>
<p>Doesn’t college have something to do with education? Were the great scholars of pevious centuries extroverts and “leaders”? Not always, and not necessarily.</p>
<p>This is more of a philosophical question, but I really don’t get it…</p>
<p>I’ve never thought holistic=extroversion. I do think that at the most selective schools, there are so many highly qualified (stats-wise) applicants they can afford to look at other factors. When I look at the Top 10 in my S’s class, the reserved outnumber the outgoing. They are all involved in a diverse assortment of EC’s. Their GPA’s range from about a 5.3 to a 5.1. Don’t know the test scores, but my best guess is that they are all strong. And I don’t think our HS is that unique. So there has to be other factors that differentiate. Diane - I know you know this, and your question was rhetorical, but you can’t evaluate “great thinkers” out of high school.</p>
<p>So, if I haven’t gotten any sort of letter for scholarships or honor or anything, then does that mean I don’t get anything? It doesn’t really matter either way, but I would like to know something. I’m out of state, by the way.
And does Carolina give out automatic academic scholarships? I hope I can get one - I got a full ride from a public university in my area and I know I can’t compare schools, but I do hope for just a bit of something…</p>
And I bet not all of them enroll at UNC. (Our own glassesarechic, an in-state kid with stellar stats, has indicated that she prefers to attend UChicago.)</p>
I assume it’s that way for a lot of us.</p>