Which schools? All of them. It’s not always clear why students get tossed, but no schools “allow” sexual activity on campus because allowing would be seen as encouraging, and that is not great for optics nor liability when most of your students are still officially children and you are acting in place of their parents. Yes, not taking stupid chances is always the best plan, but that’s not always the reality for teenagers.
@GnarWhail Your comments are inaccurate. I know schools that won’t “toss” students who are caught being sexually intimate. Will they face consequences? Sure, but they won’t be expelled nor even suspended in many cases.
Show me a student handbook excerpt quoting expulsion for sexual intimacy.
Of course, schools don’t encourage intimacy but it is a lesser offense amongst offenses (barring statutory rape).
You seem fond of Deerfield. Here’s Deerfield’s policy. Suspension is mentioned for MULTIPLE offenses but not for one offense and expulsion isn’t mentioned at all.
"Sexual Intimacy
Students are asked to exercise thoughtful and appropriate discretion in all their relationships. Sexual intimacy is not permitted for students at Deerfield.
Incidents of sexual intimacy are dealt with by the Dean of Students Office in conjunction with parents, advisors, the counseling staff, and the Health Center. The school may take action including but not limited to required counseling, Letters of Reprimand, meetings with advisors, and discussions with parents/guardians. Repeated disregard for the Sexual Intimacy Policy may be grounds for suspension or other disciplinary response."
Um…My statements were not inaccurate, and what you quoted proves it. What do you think “but not limited to” means? And what do you think they’re talking about when bringing the parents in?? They are telling the parents and the kids that you can be expelled for this and asking if it’s worth it. “Sexual Intimacy is not permitted” seems pretty clear to me.
@doschicos The current St. Paul’s rule book states that it “expects students to abstain from sexual intimacy”. “School will respond in one or more of the following ways”. “A repeated offense may lead to disciplinary action”. “Probability of disciplinary action should another violation occur”.
Seems pretty clear to me. Something that is prohibited is subject to disciplinary action.
So, life is great if you get a letter in your jacket but not so great if you get expelled. Yep, still seems pretty clear to me. And still a wicked big risk to take.
Oh, please. They bring parents into most discipline matters, especially ones with required counseling. That proves nothing. Schools are pretty good about laying out the consequences for infractions clearly. If it was an expellable offense, they would not be shy about pointing out that possibility. Instead, they say that suspension MAY be a consequence of REPEATED infractions. You are trying to read things into the policy that just are not there instead of admitting you are incorrect.
Well, let me provide you with another example that contradicts your claim that ALL schools suspend or even expel students for sexual intimacy. Andover doesn’t even have a policy forbidding sexual intimacy between two consenting individuals who aren’t breaking the state’s statutes regarding age. It is a “yes mean yes” school. Risky policy one could say for high school aged students but I respect their stance as it seems realistic. Nothing is found in the school’s blue book forbidding sexual intimacy and here’s a link to a talk from the Head of School from this past September (most likely as result of the Labrie trial): http://jpalfrey.andover.edu/2015/09/22/all-school-meeting-address-sexuality-and-healthy-relationships/
So, again, @GnarWhail, show me evidence of schools having a policy of expulsion for sexual intimacy.
Let’s now take a look at Hotchkiss’ policy, shall we, @GnarWhail ? Hotchkiss is a school many consider to be more strict in terms of discipline than many other top tier boarding schools. Yet, Hotchkiss is an example of another school that does not forbid sexual intimacy between its students (assuming consent and state age restrictions are met) although the school does say it is “inadvisable”. The school’s Almanac, their version of a student handbook, lists many “Major Offenses” but sexual intimacy is not one of them. Here’s the school’s language on sexual intimacy:
Sexual Intimacy
"Sexual intimacy is a complicated issue in a boarding school comprised of students who may range in age from 13 to 20, and who hail from the full range of cultures, beliefs, and values. While we recognize that romantic relationships may involve consensual sexual intimacy and that sexual curiosity during adolescence is common, we are committed to creating a learning and residential environment characterized by safety, trust, and respect for all. For this reason, sexual intimacy is inadvisable in this setting.
The School offers education about sex and sexuality through the Human Development program, and provides a range of counseling and advising resources, with the related goals of fostering thoughtful decision-making and encouraging students to postpone sexual activity.
If and when it occurs, sexually intimate behavior should not infringe on the privacy or rights of others, victimize a person or group, or compromise the integrity of our community. This position is informed by our commitment to our students’ well-being and right to be free of unwanted exposure to others’ sexually intimate behavior. Responses to such behavior may include, but are not limited to, faculty conversations with the students involved, communication with the students’ advisors, referral to School health professionals, consultation with the Class Dean, and parental notification.
Students should review “Major Offenses, E. Sexual misconduct, including sexual harassment” (above) for information on Connecticut law and the age of consent."
@doschicos I’m out of this. You are as wrong as wrong can be, but I have no wish to engage this argument when I’ve proven my case at least twice. Good for Andover. I would tend to agree, but you have grown tiresome. Kbye.
I guess debate wasn’t amongst your ECs?? State the facts not misguided opinion, man. State the facts.
@GnarWhail - Your reading of the SPS handbook is inaccurate and your defining of disciplinary action to mean expulsion or even suspension is not based in fact. As far as SPS goes, I know for a FACT that the school does not suspend for sexual intimacy, again with the exceptions of non-consent and age issues. I am very familiar with that school’s policies. Disciplinary action does not equate to expulsion or suspension in all matters. At SPS, you would be placed “on bounds” or “on restricts” depending on the circumstances of the sexual intimacy infraction, neither of which is suspension nor expulsion. If a suspension occurred it would be for multiple violations where behavior is not corrected not for one offense.
@doschicos Ugh, I’m back. (Didn’t see the Hotchkiss inanity.) Now you’re just being foolish. Hotchkiss lists “Sexual Misconduct” under its major offenses! What you quoted ends with just that! They don’t use the word forbidden but list all the ways sexual behavior can fit into MAJOR OFFENSES. I mean, isn’t that clear enough for you?
Haven’t you been around these schools for years? Haven’t you observed how disciplinary action works in reality as opposed to what it is the book depending on the student? Let’s say I am bit more skeptical. But you know it all, and like the best store-front lawyer, you can quote and quote and quote and hope nobody is paying attention.
Now for realz: Kbye.
Let’s pursue that section of the Hotchkiss Almanac together, shall we? This is found under Major Offenses, Section E. Section E, as a major offense, addresses sexual conduct that is NOT consenting, that is NOT in accordance with the state’s laws, and it addresses sexual harassment. One thing it does not list as a major offense is sexual intimacy where there is consent.
And yes, I’ve been around boarding schools for a long time. That’s why I know of which I speak. One thing I do know is that schools are good at stating policy in their handbooks and following those policies closely in terms of discipline cases, unlike mom and dad who might state consequences and follow through differently.
What are your connections and credentials, @GnarWhail? Last I knew, you were inquiring about swim teams at a few schools. You originally posted as an parent but the “realz” and “kbye” makes me wonder.
You might find me tiresome but I find your stating of inaccurate opinions as fact as unhelpful.
"E. Sexual misconduct, including sexual harassment
Any sexual activity for which clear and voluntary consent has not been given in advance; any sexual activity with someone who is incapable of giving valid consent because, for example, she or he is under the age of consent, sleeping, or otherwise incapacitated or impaired; any act of sexual harassment, intimate partner violence, or stalking.
Consent is defined as an affirmative, unambiguous, informed, and voluntary agreement to engage in specific sexual activity. Consent can be revoked at any time.
Sexual misconduct includes digital media stalking and the nonconsensual recording of sexual behavior. Sexual harassment consists of nonconsensual sexual advances and propositions, or other undesirable verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature.
In accordance with Connecticut law, the School reports suspected instances of abuse and/or neglect to the Department of Children and Families (DCF), including reports of sexual assault with respect to a minor, sometimes known as statutory rape.
Statutory rape is the term commonly used for the criminal offense that occurs when a person has sexual relations with a minor who is not old enough to legally consent to having sexual relations with that person. Under Connecticut law, statutory issues of consent arise with respect to sexual relations with a minor under age 16, depending on the age of the minor’s partner. For example, if two people have sex, and one person is between 13 and 16 years of age, while the other person is more than three years older, the older person can be found to have committed sexual assault in the second degree. In addition, in those instances where the individuals involved each fall within this three-year age bracket, the conduct, while not criminal in nature, may nonetheless necessitate a report to the Department of Children and Families (DCF)."
@GnarWhail @doschicos - after reading the thread on Optimal School Size, I now see that GnarWhail is also expert on matters of sex and discipline at boarding school! For the record, I agree with doschicos. I too have been around boarding schools since the early 70’s.
@gnarwhail’s writing tries a bit too hard… hence my agreement that he/she is not a parent…and if he/she was so well versed in all things boarding school, why the initial posts which asked for specific information from a parent’s perspective.
I am moving on from responding to that type of comment. There are too many other posters on CC that truly want to give and take advice (for all it is worth - and yes, all advice comes from a personal point of view). Very little said here is supposed to be the “be all and end all” on any given subject. We are all just sharing in hopes that we can help another person (or gain help and perspective for ourselves). Those who have been around the board for a while know there are periodically posters who do not necessarily share that same goal.
There are many here from all walks of life, and with all levels of experience at boarding school - often spread out over several schools as well as multiple decades! I never understand how anyone can post here and claim to know it all. There are just too many variables in terms of experience and goals.
It is presumptuous of any one individual to claim that they are the final word on any subject raised on CC - especially without backing any comments up with context so as to give the rest of us a chance to evaluate the source. When a contributor gives a bit of background much as @albion does (a great example of someone who is very clear about his experience and viewpoint). The advice he gives is infinitely more useful since it is not give apropos of nothing.
^^^ “his”?? I got it stuck in my head that albion’s a woman. Couldn’t tell you why, right now, but maybe there was something about the dorm coverage. Can we have several new posts on this, or has the question already been considered?
If so (re @albion)), I stand corrected!
@london203 Question my cred all you want, but it should not have to be pointed out that someone asking for perspective from the view of a parent or an administrator or faculty or a new student or a upper-class student might very well be that in the same position but looking to expand expand their understanding–something apparently an anathema around here sometimes. Go figure!
I never claimed to be the be all and end all, but the glad-handing nonsense routinely passed around here from one to the other is either sad or comical depending on your perspective.
Cheers!
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
I am working on the assumption that any further debate between 2 users as to how to interpret a handbook will be conducted via PM, if at all, and not here. Every member is free to express his/her opinion, but s/he should also assume that arguments made will change nobody’s mind, nor is this forum the place to attempt to do so.
Even students may not know the full story behind a withdrawal. Schools may give students the option of withdrawing, if expulsion is certain. Gossip is not accurate; schools don’t publish reasons for expulsion. Only the worst behavior reaches the attention of the press.
I would advise my children to know and follow the school’s rules. Constantly flouting a school’s rules (in any area) is sometimes a sign of an unhappy teenager. At any school, a student who accumulates too many disciplinary infractions may find him/herself not invited back for the next year.
After the disgraceful behavior at St. Paul’s School, I would also talk with my children about consent and the need to treat others with respect.
Anecdote heard last night: “so and so was suspended from playing football because he was “caught in the act” in the locker room.” The upper class kid was caught in the act And couldn’t play football for the rest of the season. Still goes to school there, though.