Schools to consider for D25 (psych, 4.0UW, >2k students, no/low Greek social scene)

College Search & Selection
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Hello CC. I’m cautiously dipping my toe into asking for help. @AustenNut , I said I’d page you when I knew more about what my kid wants, and I’m still feeling clueless, but less than before, so…here’s page #1.

I’m trying to give D25 no more than 50 schools to look into. And clearly, if she comes across others that strike her fancy, all the better! But I got zero guidance when looking at colleges, and I’m hoping to give her a different experience. There’s no need for her to start with >2000 schools when I know her well enough to whittle some away.

Here’s what I know:
*>=2000 students (but could flex if a smaller school just worked, so this is not hard and fast)
*Any location ok, with the caveat that she is very, very, very turned off by the Greek system (exclusivity, the idea that you need to look a certain way to be accepted, etc), so any place where Greeks dominate the social scene is really challenging for her to consider. (Bama rush is terrifying to her.) I think a Greek system that is more under the radar or more philanthropy focused might be fine.
*Strong psych program. (I’m finding this hard to navigate. Clark can say Freud came there–I think–but everyone seems to have a psych degree, and I can’t figure out how to parse them.) It would not surprise me if she went for a MFT, PsyD or PhD.
*some decent sized Christian fellowship on campus. I’m always hesitant to write about faith in anonymous circles, bc I jokingly tell friends and acquaintances that “nuance is my middle name”, and anonymous boards are not like us sharing some coffees together over time. Some people hear “Christian” and think lots of things that I would never agree with. But my D25 has also been told by classmates that she must be in support of genocide, homophobia, transphobia bc she’s a Christian (and then her friends say things like “Christians are like that, but you aren’t”), and she sometimes feels very alone in the Bay area. None of her close friends are Christian, which is great because they are lovely people and broaden her perspective, but she sometimes wishes there were at least a couple of people in her social circle who “got her” on that level. I was all keen on Whitman for her, and then last night looked at their website and found out there are 18 kids in the one Christian group on campus. That’s not enough for us, which makes me really sad. I haven’t nixed Whitman as a school to look into, but it gave me pause and made me include this on this list. [For any Christians out there who want to chime in on Christian colleges, note that I would probably have her look at Wheaton (Maybe? It used to be pretty ecumenical, but I don’t know what it’s like now), Calvin, Hope, and Westmont, and not Biola, Liberty, and Bob Jones. Not sure where Baylor falls.] D25 isn’t opposed to Christian colleges, but said something to the effect of “…as long as kids have a sense of real life”, which I take to mean she isn’t interested in a Christian bubble.
*Collaborative, friendly, nice people. She will not thrive in a cutthroat environment.
*She’s not an SJW and prefers a more neutral political environment. We live in a very liberal area and lean that way, but sometimes the SF Bay area is a bit much. At a bigger school, I’m less concerned about this factor.
*Likes smaller classes, happy to write and participate. But I think she’d trade this if needed for a good fit.
*Wants to be challenged in her classes and with her peers. I get that you can find that most places, but wanted to mention it.
*No really urban campuses. She ruled out Fordham this summer. Barnard was better, but she still doesn’t like NYC. (Sorry, Manhattan-ites!) Washington DC was better, but I did a self-tour of American (she was sick) and don’t see that being a good option.
*Presently has a 4.0UW, 4.3?W. But after being on CC for a while it feels like that’s a dime a dozen. I look at all these schools whose admit rates are so.stinking.low and feel like she needs to nix all of them. But to what level? To 30%? 50%? 70%? I think this was more fun when I was just reading for learning’s sake, and is not nearly as fun now that I’m actually trying to get her started. (And I do need to get her started. Between dance and school she feels like the inertia it would take to get this ball rolling is overwhelming, so I’m trying to do my own nudging.)
*We are full pay. Fit is most important.

Note: the list below has some schools that are on specifically for dance. It is unclear to me how her aspirations will pan out, so there may be some that are kept that might not otherwise be a fit. Unless you know ballet or contemporary dance, feel free to focus on her other wishes; I’ll be researching dance separately. That prong of her search may grow or shrink over the next year.

Big publics:
UCs
U of Utah
Indiana U
U of AZ
U of OK
Cal Poly SLO
U of MN
U of WI
U of British Columbia
SDSU

Privates:
Calvin
U of Puget Sound
Wheaton
Marquette
Hope
Miami U (OH)
Susquehanna
Butler
Muhlenberg
Chapman
SLU
Whitman
St. Olaf
Santa Clara
Clark
Dickinson
Rhodes (too urban?)
College of the Holy Cross
William & Mary
Case Western
Brandeis
Scripps
U of Rochester
Vassar
Hamilton
Wellesley
Carleton
Davidson
Bates
Middlebury
WashU
Emory (too Greek?)
USC (legacy)
Rice
Princeton (legacy)

You get props for having read this far. What should I remove? What should I add? I’m overwhelmed. FWIW, if I got to choose the schools I think would be the best fit for her, I’d say Cal Poly SLO, UC Davis, St. Olaf, William & Mary, WashU, Davidson, and Rice. But, this is her gig. I just want to give a reasonable number of schools, of varying selectivities, for her to consider. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

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Giant public or small LAC,? What is her level of rigor? Any scores thus far? As you note, psych and dance can be done almost anywhere. UC Davis is not Davidson and they don’t overlap in applicants.
William and Mary for an OOS female applicant is quite unlikely.

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We are an OOS William and Mary family (I and my daughter are alums, son is a freshman now,) so I can help you with information for that school. I gave my son a copy of the Fiske Guide, and he looked through every page marking the schools that interested him for size and other characteristics. He’s a dancer so he needed a school where he could participate in that.

WM has Greek, but it’s very low key. Not at all like the big southern schools you hear about. About a quarter of the students join, but not an issue if you don’t. My son has no interest at this point as a freshman.

Lots of faith-based groups. This may help you. Spirituality & Faith | William & Mary

Williamsburg is a nice college town. The historic district is right next door, and students have free access to the buildings. Really neat places to go study when the weather is nice.

WM has Orchesis, its Modern dance company. My son auditioned and is preparing for the first performance at the end of this month. WM has brand new performing arts and music facilities which is terrific for the arts students. Just opened for this fall. There are also several student led dance groups. Mine is in the hip hop group and a group where he is doing tap and contemporary. That’s in addition to Orchesis.

My son is a little over a month in and is really enjoying everything about college. First big tests come this week, so I’ll see how he feels after that.

Please feel free to message me if you end up wanting more info about WM.

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I know it sounds odd, but she feels like she could be happy in big or small places. It’s about the people. Rigor is good. I can spell out things below:

9th: HS got rid of all honors classes for 9th grade, so all regular + AP Spanish Lang (5)
10th: Alg II (honors not offered), Eng 10 H, AP World (no test), Chem H, DE Span Lit, DE Psych 100
11th: Pre-Calc H, AP Eng Lit, DE US History, AP Bio, DE Social Psych, + TBD 2 more DE classes
She will test for AP Bio and Eng Lit this year. SAT is planned for November, although it may slip to spring.

I know UC Davis and Davidson are worlds apart in many ways. But Davis (and SLO) are reputed to have “nice kids” there, and that’s been my experience with friends who have attended them. I didn’t realize W&M was that much harder for a female OOS applicant, so that’ll move it down the options. Thanks for that feedback.

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Your son applying as a legacy at WM was in a very different postion than an unhooked female OOS applicant.
Dramatically more female applicants there.

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Yes, but it’s not impossible. There have been other female acceptances from our high school who weren’t legacies. And there are several OOS females in my son’s dance group.

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So she attends a large California public high school, likely in the top 10% of her class? Any substantial EC’s?

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No offense but you absolutely cannot do dance just anywhere. Especially if you don’t want to major in it but still want a certain level of classes, specific classes and/or real performance opportunities. High level dance is actually a real limiting factor in college choice. Many dancers misjudge this and end up giving up dance in college as a result (obviously some give it up for other reasons too, but lots of stories out there about dancers who find the dance classes are at a much lower level than they need, that there really aren’t that many classes available in a given semester and/or that the better classes/opportunities are only available to dance majors - the latter is very likely to be true at larger state schools). If dance at a certain level of rigor is important to the student I would look very closely and try to make contact with the dance department prior to applying. My D actually found dance to be an excellent way to knock numerous schools off her original very long list.

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I get that, but there was no indication this student is a high level dancer. Or anything other than a casual EC in dance

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She started out at a lg public high school, but is now at a public charter. She will be top 10%. Her biggest EC is dance–~20 hrs/week during the school year and ~35 hrs/wk for 6 weeks in the summer. She does some volunteering with church, dance, and is involved in the church youth group, but nothing extraordinary.

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Do you mind me asking what type of dance your D did/does? I’m struggling to figure out how to weight it in this decision making process. If she doesn’t do a gap year to try to become a trainee, then I’m sure she’d love to have it be part of her life in college. But the schools I said were a “good fit” may not have dance at all, or may be too hard to get into. I would love to see how your D made her list.

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My son ended up looking at WM, Wake, and Elon because they had decent dance opportunities. It was difficult to find higher level dance at schools that weren’t primarily known for dance/performing arts. My son wants to be a business major, so we had to balance all those things.

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I will send you a private message.

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Now I am confused. Your daughter may wish to try to pursue a professional career in dance? For the two ballerinas I knew ( who had one-time contracts with major urban ballet companies as children), that decision was made at ages 13-15, and they left high school and were tracked accordingly. Maybe it is different for other types of dance

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Right now she’s in classical ballet, and I agree that the prodigies start at that age. But she appears to be shifting more into contemporary/modern, and I’m willing to let her audition next year to see what happens. The odds are low, and she knows that, but I’m not willing to crush her dream right now. So if she gets shut out next year, she will see that as a closed door and move on. Because she knows that’s more likely than not, she is taking her academics seriously and trying to keep up her rigor/grades. I hope that makes sense.

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I remember your D , as mine did pre-pro ballet (&other performance arts) for over a decade!
First I would ask where does she fall academically? Has she taken the hardest courses her school offers, in all or almost all core subject areas? Does she like the challenge of difficult courses in all areas?
What is her rank(quartile or decile)?
What are the courses planned for senior year? For ivies/+ she will need to have the academic chops first and foremost to have a decent shot, even as a legacy.

I ask because you have princeton listed, and because mine was also looking for a very challenging academic program with a high concentration of similar peers, and with options to dance.
She looked at schools others have described on CC as cut-throat ( ivies that have ballet companies on campus, plus Duke, UChicago , Swarthmore, etc) but based on us having a kid at one and knowing kids at many of these, they aren’t viewed as cut-throat by many students, and in fact mine finds hers (Penn) quite collaborative so far, and she has small classes(4 of 5 are 12-35 kids, 5th is 80ish). All big publics were cut due to too many large classes for her intended majors, and not enough flexibility to change departments/majors.
Her broad look included Barnard, Wake, Uva, Davidson, WashU , Colgate, W&M, and others that some also describe as too academically intense(ie work forest), yet the vibe is somewhat more “relaxed” academically, based on the students we know, than that first group. Others from her HS view this second group as very intense academically and would not be a good fit for some. It really all depends on the student and the background, as well as the major.
You have lots of time to sort it out: ours was able to tell a lot about student vibe from in person and multiple different virtual visits. D23 must have had 40+ on the broad list begun in 10th so I agree start with a long list!

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My unhooked OOS D22 got in RD. I think it’s a lot about fit and obviously having strong academics and ECs.

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With respect to colleges with a Christian orientation, have you considered Hillsdale?

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So I see she wants small classes and, I wonder why the big publics. Even if you do Honors, they’re going to be big and bureaucratic.

The dance part makes it more complicated.

Psych can be done anywhere but some departments will be bigger than others and maybe there are areas of interest that some may have but not others.

Greek can be avoided most anywhere, even at the supposed big Greek schools. But I’m not seeing big good for this student.

So if I understand correctly, I’d dance a second major or she just needs the ability to participate ?

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Hillsdale is extremely conservative. As a moderate (and a Christian) I felt very out of place. I have friends where would place themselves as conservative that felt out of place and transferred because of how conservative the school is.

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