Schools to consider for D25 (psych, 4.0UW, >2k students, no/low Greek social scene)

College Search & Selection
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I understand the inclination to classify that way, especially with what is “typical” of many regular CC posters. However, there are instances where someone comes on the board with very high grades, but does not score well on the AP tests and/or does not have top standardized test results that CC commonly associates with a 4.0UW GPA.

Rather than putting additional pressure on a student/family to meet that level of performance for the rest of high school (i.e. it would be a likely if you continue at that level of performance, but less likely if you don’t), I prefer to categorize by overall admission rates when additional outside assessment data isn’t available. Then when it’s time for a student to actually apply to colleges, they can actually do a chancing for where they are at that time, rather than guessing for no real purpose a year ahead of time, especially since junior year can often be a time when students begin to struggle academically when they hadn’t previously. Basically, just trying to keep pressure as low as possible at this point by keeping it about the school’s admit rate and not an assessment about the student.

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You are all fantastic. Thank you. (And, I am shocked at how quickly this thread moved! A girl goes to work for a day, and comes back to 61 total replies!) Let me attempt to reply to some (but likely won’t tag everyone to prevent this from becoming unwieldy. If you don’t get tagged, please note that I very much appreciate your input!):

@lkg4answers --we’ve only looked at Davis on a drive home. We have visited UCSB when she was significantly younger (but she doesn’t remember it–this was long before thoughts of college–we just wanted a place to sit on the beach and eat burritos and I wanted to see the school), but I suspect she’d choose UCSC over UCSB culturally. But perhaps that’s my bias from decades of “party school vibes” that may not be nearly as prevalent now.
USC is only on for dance reasons. I agree it is unlikely to be a cultural fit. I have not looked at LMU’s honors program–that’s a great idea.

@ASKMother --I still like W&M for her, but am holding it loosely. I think Rhodes may drop quickly, but will let her read about it in Fiske first. I should be clear: I don’t think D25 is against cities, per se, but NYC was too much and she wants a defined campus. Would WashU and Rice fit for that? I’ll add Vandy to look at. I would have expected it to feel really Greek, so it’s good to hear otherwise. I’ll reconsider WF/Furman/U of R, but my sister had a really, really bad experience with the Greek system at U of R, so I’m a bit biased against it.

@Twoin18 --honestly, if I could be a dictator in my child’s life, I’d finish pre-pro ballet at the end of HS for her. But I need to give her some time to come to her own conclusions; it’s such a big part of her life and passion that I need to let some chips fall where they may. But we will have bigger conversations over the next year and (again) discuss the harsh realities of the ballet world.

@lvvcsf --I re-read about Miami of OH last night and thought, “This doesn’t sound like my kid. Why did I put that on her list?” So I may drop it before giving her a list to look at. But to answer your question, I think she wants to do counseling–but she’s 16, so there may be some movement there.

@chicagoshannon --thanks for the input on Hope. It’s staying on the list for now. As stated upthread, Hillsdale is too conservative for us. I’m sure it’s a great fit for others. And maybe Wheaton will feel too conservative, too. I need to see if there’s a way to figure that out without a visit.

@3SailAway --this makes me happy. I like everything you wrote and may be in touch as things progress!

@Midwestmomofboys --D25 and I need to have a deeper conversation re: women’s colleges. I don’t think she’s eager for them, but isn’t opposed, either. I do think smaller cities would be ok as long as there’s a defined campus. And given feedback on Miami OH, it’s off the list. I’ll re-look at Denison, but all the other “nice” ones are on my list! And yes, Indiana and Butler are for dance. I didn’t know that about IU. D25 is 5’7", so on the taller side of most companies’ ranges, but not as tall as some of the women in Ballet West, for example.

@KatMT --JMU wasn’t on my radar at all. Thanks for the description/suggestion!

@blossom --You know, the phone is an excellent idea, sincerely. Once I have D25 see which places sound interesting, I’ll start making phone calls. I really, really like this idea. But I have to take off “nice”? I have to cull somehow! But I’ll take your point that if a school looks good for her that I won’t categorically rule it out bc of heresay about culture.

@Izzy74 I like Trinity U–I can’t remember how big it is. Glad to hear positive feedback. Furman is likely too Greek. And you are right, all those you mentioned might be too progressive. I need to let her read about and/or visit at least a couple of them. (But they’re such nice schools! Sigh.)

@NiceUnparticularMan --thanks for the encouragement. I need it!

@DadTwoGirls --I’ve seen Simon Fraser–or at least an office they have in downtown Vancouver–when visiting the area, but am totally unfamiliar with U of Calgary. We’re hoping to visit a small local school later this week to get her sense of yay/nay on small schools and will adjust the list as appropriate afterward. (Maybe I should have waited to get all this lovely advice until after that visit? Ahem.) @CanadianMTgirl I think Montreal might be closer to Manhattan in terms of city, but will at least look Concordia U up, as it’s new to me. Thanks!

@parentologist --I have bad news: her school does not offer the PSAT (insert gnashing of teeth here) and, due to the change to the digital format, neither of the schools that were willing to let her test there last year will let her this year. None of the other schools in the area would permit it, either. So I’ve had to let go. Honestly, I don’t disagree with you. She is an “average excellent” kid. And if I’m totally honest, it stresses me out sometimes. But this is who she is, and this is where we’re at. I am convinced that we will find a place where she can thrive. She will be prepping for the SAT. (I had her do a shortened version of both to compare and she came out relatively =.
I so appreciate that link re: psych. “quality institution”–I’ve now pulled up the top 50 psych PhD producers both total and adjusted for size of institution. I’m hoping that if the school is on it, it’s considered quality? And this is kind of what I was feeling–that a psych degree is not a psych degree is not a psych degree, although clearly there’s overlap in all of them.

@AustenNut --ah, got it. Will give in buckets. And that chart was really helpful. I spent too long tonight trying to find it adjusted for size of school, and think I finally found it, but I love all things data!

@BoroDad I will ping you tomorrow (bedtime is now!). That site is a bear–I got lost on it tonight and gave up. Thank you!

@kidzncatz --one of my best friends went to Messiah! I’ll take a look. Thanks!

Thanks again, all. I have some homework to do once work calms down this week! I’ll be back with an update once the dust settles and she has a chance to look at some schools in some way, shape, or form.

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We are from the northeast of the US, but my daughters and I have dual citizenship and we did tour Concordia back when they were looking for universities. Concordia is in an attractive and essentially almost entirely bilingual part of Montreal just up the street from McGill (which is very near the center of downtown Montreal, all of which is quite close to the large park on the top of Mount Royal). It is a very good university. I was not sure whether you wanted to travel that far which is why I did not mention it. However, my guess is that there are probably non-stop flights from Montreal to California. The last time that I checked Montreal had a lower crime rate compared to most cities of the same size in North America and Montreal would be an interesting place to spend 4 years. It is however a large city.

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I’m late to the game, but wanted to add a couple of thoughts on schools mentioned above from a Christian perspective:

Baylor may be a good fit religiously, as it is large and diverse enough to have different Christian groups and clubs across the spectrum. The university is technically Baptist but has broken away from the most conservative strain of Baptist life, and there are many, many religious students who are not Baptist - there’s always been a sizable Catholic population, for example. So I think your student could find a faith-based group that would be a good fit. The issue would be Greek life. Baylor has a strong and very visible Greek community that plays a major role in campus social life, and it sounds like that’s one thing you are trying to avoid.

My daughter is a churchgoing Christian at Rice, and she has found a great community there. It’s pretty small, perhaps not that different than what you described at Whitman - but there will be several small groups to choose from, rather than one. Hers is very progressive and social justice-oriented, but there are more conservative groups as well.

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If you haven’t seen them, you may be interested to see these lists from Princeton Review. They asked students how strongly they would agree that their fellow students were very religious. Of course, there can be perception issues (such as students who only think of very vocal, proselytizing students as being very religious), but it’s another data point that could be helpful in developing/refining the list.

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WashU has a very defined campus. It also isn’t city city, more residential and next to Forest Park.

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My impression is that you may be creating more pressure on your child than is necessary by creating a list of schools which have little in common. (For example, how does Susquehanna make the same list as Princeton ?)

Consider a trip to Texas to visit Baylor, SMU, TCU, & Rice.

Maybe another trip to North Carolina area to visit Wake Forest, William & Mary, Furman University, & Davidson College.

I like all of the large public universities for your daughter as she will be able to find all of her preferences at each of these schools.

Regarding schools with a high Greek presence. Tends to be more of a problem at small schools because large schools offer many activities unrelated to Greek societies.

Speaking bluntly, based on the list of schools, it appears to be random rather than well thought out and this is likely to create unneccessary stress to all involved.

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@DadTwoGirls --at this point, location is wide open. I don’t know enough about Montreal, but will do some research. (Sense a research theme in my responses?)

@txfriendly --I’ll let D25 read about Baylor, but the low Greek influence seems to be a big factor for her right now. As I stated somewhere, you have to cull some way. Rice still sounds like it could work. Thank you!

@AustenNut --I’ve seen an older version of the “least religious” which included Whitman, which is what gave me pause to look at their website. At least by reputation (so take with a grain of salt as I know some of the schools better than others), many of the “most religious” are going to be distinctly more conservative than my kid. But she doesn’t need a school that entirely squares with her (liberal or conservative)–I believe everyone should both be comfortable and stretched in college, so as long as she can find her people, I’m sure she’ll find her way and learn from lots of folks.

@groundhog74 --thank you!

@Publisher , I appreciate your blunt feedback. While I certainly didn’t pull names out of a hat, I did attempt to provide the gamut for her to help her try to come up with characteristics to help her narrow the field. And 50-75 to sort through felt more feasible than handing her Fiske’s and saying “have at it, kiddo!”. We are unlikely to be able to make cross-country trips until spring, but given your feedback I will attempt to get her to a few closer to home schools and on tours to see if that helps as well. I hope my next pared down list here feels less random to you.

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Oh, I’m sure several of them would be. But some of the public schools or Jesuit ones might end up closer to the vibe you might be looking for in terms of religion, like:

  • U. of Utah
  • Saint Anselm (NH)
  • Kansas State
  • Creighton (NE)
  • John Carroll (OH)
  • Saint Louis (MO)
  • Christopher Newport (VA)
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Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I totally agree that the ones you listed might work!

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My D also wanted a defined campus but liked the idea of being near a city. She was also pretty anti-Greek. She had WashU, Rice and Vandy on her list. She was a little worried about the Greek system at Vandy but loved the campus and Nashville. Wash U has a Greek system but it does not dominate the culture (at least that is what I’ve been told). She ended up at Rice which has no Greek system but does have a residential college system which was probably my daughter’s favorite thing about the school. She was worried about it being in Texas but after a visit was hooked. Houston doesn’t really feel like what you’d expect Texas to feel like culture wise. It’s a pretty liberal city. My daughter is not involved in any Christian organizations but quite a few of her friends were and they seem to have some great options. There is a church right across the street that has strong programming for the students.

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Your inclusion of Scripps on your list hasn’t generated much feedback thus far, so I’ll chime in on that front! To address your criteria:

PROS:

  • The college itself is small, but the consortium makes it comfortably meet the “>2K” criterion in terms of the student experience. There also isn’t a shortage of guys around, so it often appeals to students who weren’t initially drawn to the “women’s college” idea. (My kid included!)
  • No Greek life: check!
  • Academic rigor: check!
  • Collaborative: check!
  • Small classes with emphasis on participation and writing: check!
  • Dance: The Scripps dance department in excellent, with depth in a variety of styles.
  • Psych: Strong department, as well as impressive breadth and depth of course offerings across the consortium, most of which are open to cross-registration
  • Faith community: There are multiple consortium-wide faith-based groups with all the “critical mass” you could hope for.
  • Suburban campus - no daunting urban-ness, although LA is within range when desired
  • Good merit potential with her stats, although outcomes can be unpredictable

CONS:

  • More “SJW” vibe than some on your list, although this is not universal
  • Cost: $$$$ without merit, and $$$ even with merit - 1/2 tuition merit is the maximum
  • Not quite as much built-in “community” as you might expect in a small LAC. Many students take a while to “find their groove” socially, especially if not extroverted. BUT having a niche like an athletic team or a Christian Fellowship group (perhaps dance too, but I can’t speak to the social-incubator aspects of that) can definitely supply that otherwise-missing piece that averts those early struggles.

Your description of your daughter reminded me a lot of a friend’s daughter who attended Scripps (with merit) and is now in a top PhD program. She was very active both in dance and in one of the consortium-wide Christian groups. I don’t want to go into more detail on a public thread, since she’s not my kid, but would be happy to discuss by PM if you would like.

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A few areas to address with your daughter:

  1. Will the primary focus be on academics or on dance ?

If academics, how demanding ? Any standardized test scores ?

  1. Weather preference. (Big difference between St.Olaf in Minnesota and Rice University in steamy Houston.)

  2. Travel difficulty. Some of the schools on the current list will involve lengthy and challenging travel. (For example: Bates College is not an easy journey from San Francisco and Lewiston, Maine can be quite depressing to some.)

  3. Christian faith. Acceptance & comfort. Some Northeastern schools are very liberal and unaccepting. (I might be wrong, but I would be concerned about Vassar College based on your daughter’s strong preference for a comfortable environment for a practicing Christian.)

  4. Don’t assume that your daughter will be intellectually challenged at all of the schools on your list in the opening post.

OP: Your daughter’s interests and preferences may change over the next 18 months. This is why I encourage a visit to a school such as SMU. I assure you that she will not have a neutral reaction. Somewhat similar to Pepperdine.

As an aside, I do not understand why Case Western Reserve & Susquehanna are on your list. Also, Marquette doesn’t fit. Miami University of Ohio doesn’t seem to fit. Why Bates College ? SLU ??? Is this St. Louis University ?

Taken in the context of what has been shared and in light of the 7 schools you listed as best fits for your daughter, you might want to eliminate some schools that I mentioned above.

If you like WashUStL, you will like Emory University.

If your daughter prefers a bit of a high school type atmosphere (small classes, strict attendance policies, Christian faith, really clean-cut students), then consider Furman University. Beautiful campus.

But, if your daughter wants an intellectually rigorous college experience, then your current list can be reduced by a significant amount.

Need a standardized test score.

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I just wanted to chime in to share my experience as a current Muhlenberg student! Many people here are religious and pretty open about it. There is a large population of Jewish students, and our office of Religious and Spiritual Life is a major presence on campus. I would absolutely describe the people here as “collaborative, friendly, nice” and “not cutthroat”. The campus is on the outskirts of a medium-sized city; doesn’t really feel urban.

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Just chiming in to agree WUSTL has a very well-defined, and quite gorgeous, campus. And it is a quick Metro ride from Downtown, but its immediate surroundings are more medium density, and pretty posh, with an absolutely fantastic, huge, world-class park across the street.

My S24 loved it, so if that sort of thing sounds good it should definitely be explored. He does not want to go to Texas, but I understand Rice has similar appeal.

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Lots of great schools! 3 notes:
Rhodes will not feel too urban. It is somewhat outside of the downtown, with neighborhoods around it and a massive park (Overton Park) across the street. The campus itself is green, leafy and beautiful.

However, Greek life at Rhodes is a big deal. I think this is also true of Davidson.

Vassar and Christian life: there are all sorts of religious affinity groups at Vassar, but from what I can tell from my child currently there, the Christian groups tend to be a bit smaller and quieter at Vassar post-embrace-of-Trump-by-evangelicals. Seems like the majority of practicing Christians on campus are Hispanic or Black students from different church traditions than the evangelical right. And, as is true nationwide from what I read, there has been a large-scale collapse of the Christian left among young people. There is an office of religious and spiritual life, and many things about Vassar would be perfect for your child (from dance to psychology), but I would advise caution on the Christian front if your daughter seeks a large Christian community (assuming that is her priority and not the parents :slight_smile: )

St. Olaf might be a real winner for you all!!

(Oh, and I would add: on any campus you will find a range of different types of individuals, but if your daughter’s interests are psychology and dance, she will tend to be among the “lefty” kids on any campus - maybe not so much as sociology and art, but more so than economics and chemistry. So keep that in mind as you’re looking at different schools.)

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Great post, but not sure about your final paragraph as students who combine psychology & dance run the spectrum of political beliefs /ideology.

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My sense is that while any given major might have at least some representation of diverse worldviews (at least if it is a popular enough major), how that distribution is weighted might not be the same.

It is all very complicated because worldviews really are distributed in a multi-dimensional space and not along a line. And depending on the nature of a college you might find it is selecting for combinations that would be more rare in the general college population, but are more common at that particular college. So, a particular college might be high on religious-right filmmakers, or conversely in socialist finance students, or so on.

Still, if you are looking at what you might describe as more or less standard secular colleges and universities, I do think there is something to arts, humanities, and non-businessy social sciences majors tending to skew more toward the “left” sorts of worldviews than average, and business/pre-business types less so than average. And then the STEM kids might kinda be in between, although I think there is often a sort of technocratic view that used to be considered a type of conservativism but now is considered more a type of liberalism, or at least centrism.

And again, I would emphasize I am not saying all kids in these fields are like this, just that I think at least often, there is a notable shift in distributional weight towards or away from certain worldview-spaces.

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The reason I asked about her goals for Psychology is that many students use Psychology as a preparatory degree for any number of Health Sciences fields since the degree requires many of the prerequisites to apply to the advanced degree programs. The thing about most of those fields is that they require graduate degrees or professional doctorates. The other thing about them is that while they require a bachelors degree what you get your degree in is largely irrelevant so long as you have taken the appropriate prerequisite courses, done well, complete the non academic requirements (ie. shadowing, volunteering etc.) and do well on the GRE or other required tests.

My D knew she wanted to be a physical therapist. She majored in Dance (BA) and was able to do very well in the courses required to apply to DPT programs. She ended up graduating with a biology minor in addition to her dance degree. She graduated this past spring from her DPT program and is now a Physical Therapist. Good luck.

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LOL–socialist finance students! Haven’t met one yet! :smile:

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