Schools to consider for D25 (psych, 4.0UW, >2k students, no/low Greek social scene)

I’m just chiming in briefly to say I think you are doing great so far.

Obviously to the extent people have even more good ideas, that is helpful. But I think in practice, the next really big thing is working out a process so that she can start narrowing in on her favorites.

And it can be hard to predict which will be her favorites, which is actually great. Like, maybe a couple of those on that short list she ends up not liking at all. That is really useful information! And then often she can use that information to start ruling out a lot more. Of course sometimes she might add a few more possibles too, based on what she is learning about herself, about college options, and how that all fits together in practice.

And I know that can feel overwhelming in anticipation, but in practice–I actually think it can be really fun and rewarding, with the right attitude. The right attitude being there are always more fish in the sea, any reason your D25 has for not liking a school is a good reason, and so on. Let her be judgmental and petty and whatever, but also enthusiastically embrace the times when a college really clicks for her. And by the time she is getting down to her final list, you will hopefully both feel really excited about how it went (although she is obviously the priority, as a parent I think it can be great to see your kid excited about these things).

And again, my feeling is you are already where you need to be to start that phase–take a victory lap, in fact, because I think you have done a great job so far.

And now being on the other end of what comes next with my S24 (more or less–we are still visiting!), my hope for you is that you find it as interesting and fun to watch your kid go through that process as I did.

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I noticed that you have UBC on your list. Two other very good universities to consider in western Canada are Simon Fraser University, and the University of Calgary. Both have good dance programs and good psychology programs. I have not checked prices recently for international students, but the last time that I checked they might have been a bit less expensive for international students compared to UBC.

It does occur to me that UBC is very large (although on a very attractive campus right next to an attractive and relatively safe city) whereas some of the other schools on your list (such as Wellesley and Middlebury) are relative small. You might want to visit a few schools and see where your daughter feels the most comfortable. I would assume you would want to start with universities that are near home, particularly given that your list includes universities all over the US.

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Oh, I meant that I would only give your daughter a limited number of schools to investigate at a time. For instance, I’d give her this list of schools to start (I don’t think these OOS publics have that different of an admissions rate for in-state vs. out-of-state students):

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Butler
  • Hope
  • Indiana U.
  • Marquette
  • Miami U (OH)
  • SLU
  • U of Puget Sound
  • U. of Arizona
  • U. of Oklahoma
  • U. of Utah
  • Wheaton

Maybe she’ll have feelings about near or far, or about size, or whatever else. But a list of about a dozen schools is much more approachable than a list of 50 schools, and this way she starts looking at the schools that are likely to be sure-things for her. Once she’s figured out her preferences based on that list, I’d go through the rest of the schools on your curated list and eliminate the ones that no longer meet her updated preferences, and perhaps add some schools that more closely aligned to her newly-revealed preferences.

Then I’d give her the next batch of schools:

Likely (60-79%)

Repeat the same cycle, until you go through all of the lists. I went ahead and sorted these by their overall admit rates, except the California publics and UBC.

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Clark
  • Rhodes (too urban?)
  • Santa Clara
  • St. Olaf
  • U of WI
  • Whitman

Lower Probability (20-39%)

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • Bates
  • Carleton
  • Davidson
  • Emory
  • Hamilton
  • Middlebury
  • Princeton (legacy)
  • Rice
  • USC (legacy)
  • Vassar
  • WashU
  • Wellesley

Hopefully this makes a bit more sense of what I originally meant.

This won’t fit your desire for a non-urban campus, but given your interest in some Canadian schools, for contemporary dance, consider Concordia University in Montreal (BFA Contemporary Dance requires an audition). She could double major in psych.

This is exactly what a family member of mine did. She ended up choosing the ballet training program, and doing that program is what gave her the info she needed that a career in professional dance was not right for her. So now she never has to look back and wonder “what if.” And then when she did look at schools again, she was freed up to consider schools without dance (previously her list had only had schools with serious dance programs.)

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I know that she’s a junior, and that you’re in CA, but is there a plan for prepping for and taking the PSAT, which is given this month? The reason that I ask is that right now, your daughter falls into the “average excellent” pool, meaning that she has very nice grades, and not much else that would make her stand out in admissions (other than the fact that she is full pay). Unfortunately, her school doesn’t offer much in the way of honors or AP, although it appears that she is taking advantage of some of what is being offered. So for the CA public schools, if she is awarded national merit commendation or higher, she can list it as an honor. CA schools are test-blind, but are NOT honor/award blind, so the admit comm would see it, and it would help to put her GPA without substantial rigor into context. If it’s too late for this, it is still worth determining which test is better for her - ACT or SAT - and possibly prepping for it, since a high score on this would help with the many schools that still would look at it.

You’ve got schools of all sizes on your lists, from small LACs to huge flagship U’s. You are willing to pay rack rate, which would help at some need-aware LACs (even though they don’t like to say it). Your daughter can find a Christian fellowship group at most schools. There will be dance clubs and dance classes at most schools; if she were planning to major in dance, and were considering dance programs that require auditions, I have a feeling that she would already be farther along in the competitive process culminating in acceptance to a high level dance program, so it sounds as if it’s going to be a hobby, rather than a profession.

Most schools have psych dep’ts. However, acceptance to clinical graduate psych programs is more competitive even than med school. She would need a high GPA, high GRE score, and it helps to come from a quality undergrad institution. An applicant for a clinical psych program coming from a well-respected undergrad institution (and one where they’ve taken advantage of research opportunities) is going to be in a better position that someone coming from a small, less prestigious LAC without psych research opportunities. So in her case, if what she wants is clinical psych, I think you DO need to be considering whether the undergrad school that she attends gives her a lift towards getting into a clinical psych grad program.

The above link to a frank guide to what you need to do to get into a clinical psych grad program may be enlightening. The reason that you need this now, rather than a few years from now, is that the quality of the undergrad institution, and what is available there, is definitely a factor in shaping an application. For med school or law school, apparently what matters is the GPA and standardized test, much more so than the college, but for clinical psych, the college matters too.

For this reason, I would recommend looking into the quality and reputation of the undergrad psych major at schools, and the clinical research opportunities that exist at the institution. This will help to shape your list. I know we all hate the USNWR and Niche and such lists, but it’s a place to start. Clearly, your daughter already knows how to work hard and do well in school, so I suspect that she can hold her own, GPA-wise, at any school that she can get into. Sure, she can knock off the list any schools that are frat-intense, or have absolutely no Christian club on campus, or have no possibility for dance whatsoever, but the main driver of her list should be how would the school be viewed by a graduate clinical psych admissions committee.

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Below are snips from Baccalaureate origins of doctoral recipients that shows which institutions by Carnegie classification produced the most recipients of psychology doctorates between 2010-2018. This does not take into effect the size of the undergraduate population, but is just dealing with whole numbers only. On a per undergrad basis, baccaulaureate institutions tend to have much higher rates than Master’s or doctoral universities. Also, note the sliding bar in each snip…there are many more colleges in each of these lists, so these could be good options to see which universities are providing the types of experiences that have been helpful for students who were successful in going on to get a doctorate in psychology.

Baccaulaureate Institutions

Master’s Universities

Doctoral Universities

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I would second Muhlenberg. Its 20% Greek but it’s a real mix of students and has theatre kids which bring some breadth. I can’t vouch for the psych program per se, but what makes it stand out is that - while small - it a great LAC generally for feeding students to top grad schools. I can’t find the documentation on this - I had it a few years ago - but you might want to look at that element for each LAC. It’s not in a city at all but also not far from Philly and NYC (little over one hour). And the people who I know who went there are pretty active in their churches.

So of course its right in the post above… but the version I saw was corrected for institution size

@illneversaynever I went back to the original site for NIH and I was able to build a chart like the ones above but for all institutions, not just top 20. https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/builder/sed It is NOT the easiest site to use. Ping me directly and I can send you the file


e.

For CSUs, such an award does not matter at all. For UCs, if they are test-blind, it is likely that a purely test-based award is of little or no importance in admission reading.

But the 11th grade PSAT can be valuable if the student reaches the National Merit Semifinalist threshold (although that tends to be high in California), since there are other colleges that attach large scholarships to National Merit Finalist (which most National Merit Semifinalists advance to).

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I’ll mention Wesleyan University as another excellent LAC option. It is known to be very strong academically, including the arts – especially (as mentioned on here often) in the performing arts. So I figure they probably have some decent dance groups to check out.

Politically there will be a mix – generally leaning left, but that will be the case at most LACs regardless of location. Doubtless she will find her people.

SLO gives a small National Merit scholarship to students who are admitted. There is no place to list it on the application, so it is not considered in the admissions process.

Perfect example. Wesleyan is very left-leaning, and yet they have a strong Christian Fellowship group. Also a very good reputation, just a hair below the top “little Ivies” LACs.

Most colleges are going to have a Christian club of some sort. After all, over 60% of the population of the US identifies as Christian, at least nominally. Even Brandeis, founded under Jewish auspices (and actually a very good choice for her, since it has dance and psych, easy access to Boston, and a very good academic reputation) has various Christian fellowship groups and a Christian chaplain/coordinator of Christian life.

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It would be so great if we’d all eliminate statements like “Wesleyan is very left-leaning” since it implies that the entire student body leans left- which is not true.

Agree that Brandeis is a terrific option. Which is why I suggested picking up the phone to talk to the Chaplains at any college which looks like it’s an academic/geographic/financial fit. It is surprising to learn about the options at some “didn’t see that coming” colleges.

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I’d put Clark, Rhodes, St. Olaf and Whitman all into the likely category for a student with a 4.0+

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Any general statements about any college obviously do not apply individually to every single student there. When we talk about “vibe”, of course it doesn’t apply to every single student at the college. And yet, the fact is that certain colleges attract certain types of students, and for various reasons, this tends to become even more concentrated as their reputation for such spreads, and attracts even more like-minded students. This is reality, and not only in the rare cases where the private (or even now in Florida, public) college is deliberately fostering a particular political atmosphere.

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There are a lot of second and third generation Wes kids- prep school, blue blood, and all the rest- who hold conservative political views (or are entirely a-political) and find the “vibe” perfect for a music loving/athletics loving/academically oriented kid. And there are plenty of people in that part of CT who vote Republican (yes, even Trumpists) and bemoan the liberal vibe of their fellow citizens in other parts of the state.

Folks tend to dismiss a college out of hand once they hear about the alleged “vibe” which is a shame. Someone explores, decides it’s not for them? Great. But to dismiss without doing any research because of an alleged vibe? Don’t think we are helping here.

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Another Christian school to consider is Messiah University in Pennsylvania. No Greek life. Very ecumenical - emphasis is on growing one’s faith and a life of service, not any specific dogma. Though most students are Christian, of various denominations, there are also Muslim students and other faiths represented on campus. Strong fine arts programs, with majors in dance, theatre, music, art, graphic design. Both BA and BS tracks for Psychology.

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Some days it doesn’t pay to get out of bed.

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Agreed! And William and Mary also cares about demonstrated interest. If feasible, a visit and an interview
will go a long way. I also think being from California will only help her chances. They offer ED1 and ED2 where the acceptance rate is considerably higher compared to RD.
It’s a welcoming/friendly campus and size wise, IMO, it is a Goldilocks school, not too big/not too small.

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