<p>I think it's gross, for lack of a better word ,that a kid would take AP Lang & AP Lit even though he no interest in these subjects. I'm all for kids pursuing their interests with AP courses, but why clog up a class ( there are only so many slots) with kids simply looking to impress rather than with kids who actually love that subject. Somebody's kid who loves literature,can't take an AP lit class because someone else's kid was told to cover all the bases. My son plays guitar & composes music so he's taking AP music theory. he mentioned that a friend was in that class with him. Oh, i asked, what instrument does Jon play? My son said, " He plays the AP!"
I think I'm too opinionated for this forum</p>
<p>"Focus on her intent to continue her language studies in college" is NOT "intended major". That was my point. If she wanted to say (whatever foreign language) is my intended major, she'd have said that. You misquoted her.</p>
<p>details,</p>
<p>Perhaps you are just too judgmental. My son got 5s on the AP exams, As in the courses and won a national writing award. He took the classes because he likes to be well-educated. I don't think his teachers thought he was "clogging" up the class, by any means. I think they were thrilled that a science/math type added a different perspective to the courses.</p>
<p>BTW, at my son's not-so-top high school, there were always open spots in the AP courses. Nobody took somebody's else's place.</p>
<p>Do you really think high school students should only take courses that they think interest them at that point in their life?</p>
<p>And BTW details, my D did the same type of tailoring of apps to all of her schools (so lump us in, too). In fact, I'd print off mission statements, trustees minutes, news conference transcripts to see just what the colleges were looking for (and where they were going) and to see what parts of her REAL LIFE to emphasize (not create). Gamesmanship? Or being well prepared to write your app for a particular school that stresses your strengths and makes you appealing to that school?</p>
<p>Also, I think you likely won't like what I am about to say but....
I have never understood parents or students who are angry at a very selective college for not admitting the student. My children both applied to highly selective colleges or programs. They knew they were qualified for any of these schools. However, at the most selective schools in the land, the odds are a "reach" for anyone, because of the very low admit rates. MANY highly qualified students are turned away. It goes with the territory of elite admissions. They knew this was a VERY real possibility at these highly selective schools and did not take it personally if certain schools did not accept them. Since they were quailfied, they were confident that some selective schools would take them and some wouldn't. If a student is rejected at an elite school, it doesn't mean that he/she wasn't qualified. It sounds like details' son was qualified but when push came to shove, he wasn't selected. Obviously he is qualified as Vassar took him, another school in the same ballpark as Wesleyan. This kind of outcome is to be expected. I have a child who is currently an applicant to highly selective grad programs. She is qualified, but we know that given the 10% admit rates, she is sure to get some rejections because that's the tough odds. </p>
<p>I would never ever be angry or upset if an elite school rejected my child. I would have come to expect it, and not because she didn't cut it but because the odds are that many who are as qualified as those who get in, are still shut out. You can't put all your eggs in one elite school's basket. There would be far less upset if a student had several schools he/she liked and the student/parent looked at the OVERALL result. I know my kids had excellent admissions results at highly competitive schools, and the one that didn't take them or the one that waitlisted them.....we/they were not upset or didn't question it but knew it was a very real possibility. They still had a slew of acceptances and are attending one of their first choice schools. Even if you have the qualifications, if you apply to a highly selective school, you still may not get in. KNOW THIS going into it. There is nothing unfair about it and nothing to get angry about. It is part of the process. Expect it to happen. With an elite college, I wouldn't have even thought to have called to find out "why".....I know the "why".....it is the tough odds that they can't take every super qualified applicant. There wasn't anything wrong with my kid.....it was the odds and we knew she'd win some and lose some. In the end, she was a winner when looking at her overall admissions results. I wish more approached it in this manner.</p>
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<p>As to the issue of a kid following their passsion in high school course selection and by that I mean choosing not to take a normal (or the expected) college prep courseload, I'd have to say that was a gamble . Hopefully it was recognized as such.</p>
<p>IMO the schools want you exposed to a broad curriculum, "top courses in a full range of subjects", whether you like them or not. ;)</p>
<p>I have to say that at my kids' high school ALL academic kids take at least a four science sequence: earth science, bio, chem, physics, without exception. GC's have their heads if they don't. And they double up for AP's so S had six lab sciences, D, who doesn't really like science, 5. And everyone had AP Calc. That's just the way it is and understood to be the minimum requirements for a rigorous, college bound course-load. D was allowed to take AP Bio before Physics because of scheduling conflicts, but she was on scout's honor to take physics as a senior. And she did.</p>
<p>Wesleyan IS known to use bragging rights for how many have x years of lab science and how many took AP calc. Petty? Maybe. That's the image they want to convey.</p>
<p>In our HS if a kid didn't want to dissect for moral reasons, they would be excused. Not much dissection goes on in high school biology or even AP anyway. Lots of memorization.</p>
<p>So details, what's the beef? It sounds like Vassar is a much better fit for your son. Equally prestigious, selective, etc. but more in sympathy with a stronger liberal arts profile. Sounds like Wes did him a favor because he'll be at a school that shares his values. That's how we looked at rejections. And it worked.</p>
<p>Re Calmom: She does not need my defense, but I have never found her to be anything but honest and true. The "packaging" she describes is just a form of advertising, highlighting some things, downplaying others. Adcoms have so many applications to read it helps them. Basically she found a way to say, "My kid is special. She studied in Russia. She studies Russian. She is an amazingly hard working and really achieves."</p>
<p>That's what an application is supposed to do.</p>
<p>And, congratulations on your son's acceptance to Vassar, a school my D was rejected at because, well basically because she was a LI girl who wants to major in the humanities, and she needed money before their new policy.</p>
<p>Bitter? For about ten seconds. And she was excited when S applied. Same conditions might help me.</p>
<p>She preferred Barnard anyway. Shares her values. As a feminist she was appalled that Vassar, a former women's college, was going after men at the expense of women. Rationalization? Maybe. But we're all happy. </p>
<p>With that beautiful library? Be happy.</p>
<p>Yes I think "broad based" means just that. Life Science (which contains bio & chem components), Environmental Science ( also with chem & bio components, but no disection) & Physics seem braod based. If they meant bio & chem, why not say that specifically? Lot's of kids play at vegetarianism in high school & college. Few have been animal rights champions & vegetarians for their whole life. When my kid was 6 he used to rescue the jellyfish that other kids at the beach were trying to kill because he said "everything had the right to live". The anti disection thing was not an excuse not to take bio, just a principle he didn't compremize.</p>
<p>I think a real problem here is thinking of taking high school classes in only what you are interested in. I think just the opposite. In high school, you mostly have to take the core subjects to get into college. Then, you can tweak and add some things of interest (a second foreign language, AP Music theory, double up in science, etc.). But any intended applicant to a selective college should have a required core. What is so cool about college, I think, is that finally a student can make some choices in picking to study what she/he likes. Even if there are distribution requirements at a college, there is an array of choices. But HS is primarily about a core of college prep classes that are part of a HS education, whether you are interested in the subjects or not.</p>
<p>Why do you think my kid, an applicant to a BFA degree program in musical theater, took AP Calculus? She hates math, but is very good at it. She was accelerated in math and reached Calculus by 11th grade which is highly unusual at our HS (one of the only other kids to ever do it was her older sister). This child graduated after junior year. Maybe she didn't need Calculus to get into her college programs but she surely should take math in her junior year and the only thing left, due to her level, was Calculus AP. She was trying to present a rigorous college preparatory curriculum. Not taking math, even though she was advanced and had gone as high as necessary to get into college, would be a dumb move, in my opinion, because I think she should be in a min. each year of English, History, Math, Science and Foreign Language. It didn't matter if she liked those subjects. Now, IN college, she can pick and choose and she surely isn't taking any math or science because she doesn't HAVE to but she HAD to, in my opinion, in HS, in order to get into her very selective college.</p>
<p>Details:</p>
<p>I have to disagree with your assessment that, just because a student is interested in pursuing a math major in college their taking an AP Lit or English Language class is in any way "gross". My DD fully intends to major in Applied Math/Engineering in college, but is primarily interested in receiving a well rounded education. She is one of the top students in her AP Lit class and enjoys it tremendously. In addition to AP CAlculus AB, she also excels at and enjoys her AP Psych, AP Spanish Language and AP Art History class (I won't even go into her previous AP classes). I think it would be severely limiting and very sad to tell any student that they should settle for a regular section of a class just because they are not planning to pursue that path in college/life. Kids can and do change their minds often once in college as to major. I, for one, am very pleased that my DD has chosen a curriculum that is so well rounded and that has kept her challenged. At no point in time was she "building her application" when she chose these classes. I also don't think that any of her teachers or the school's administration consider that she is "clogging" the class.</p>
<p>details, didn't his GC suggest this was not a good idea? Is this rejection the first time anyone suggested this was a risk? I wouldn't think so. It seems from the explanatory GC letter everybody was cognizant of the gamble and chose to take it. It didn't work this time. Maybe it worked another.</p>
<p>details, the problem with what you are saying in post #168 is that you are reasoning why certain science classes are just as important or worthwhile and that is all fine and good but most elite colleges want a min. of Bio and Chem and many also want Physics. Your GC should know this. The fact that your GC was explaining why your son hadn't taken EITHER Bio or Chem (maybe he'd be OK had he at least taken one of these) demonstrates that he felt it needed some explaining. It would only need explaining because it didn't meet the elite college's expectations of a HS Prep curriculum. </p>
<p>If your son had a schedule conflict for Chem, maybe he could take it a different year. </p>
<p>The vegetarian and animal rights thing is understandable but again, there are many who feel and believe likewise but still have to take HS Biology. </p>
<p>I imagine there are some who have strong religious views that don't correlate to some other classes taught in school either. </p>
<p>I think the GC didn't advise your son well in this regard.</p>
<p>If the anger is over the ignored legacy status, well yes, that is a blow. Another friend went through this at Brown where her S would have been completely qualified.</p>
<p>But obviously, legacy status doesn't trump all. It's a blow. But then, oh well.</p>
<p>And whatever your thinking, it wasn't Wesleyan's thinking. There's no arguing that, because the results show that. So repeating how it seems to you doesn't explain the outcome. Understanding how others might have seen it differently does.</p>
<p>Posters here are sympathetic,yes. Many of us have children who were rejected at schools they had picked out. But as soozie points out, because they were qualified and achieving they were accepted at others.</p>
<p>WE don't think Vassar is a tragedy. WE think it's a cause for celebration. I hope you are supporting your S in being happy for his wonderful outcome. Otherwise, sour grapes might just prove Wesleyan right. Lack of flexibility is not a great trait for a college freshman. And you wouldn't want to do that.</p>
<p>As the Murphys said, "Living well is the best revenge." Loving Vassar and touting it to everyone? Best way to respond to Wesleyan since they are lateral competitors.</p>
<p>I agree with Same Cage's post and can relate. I have a child majoring in Architecture. She loved French in HS and was accelerated. Actually, both of my kids completed French V in junior year of HS and so topped out on the French curriculum. D2 graduated early but D1 chose to do a supervised independent study with one other student and the teacher in French VI as a senior. Is she majoring in anything related to French? Nope. But she still likes it. She has chosen to take French every year in college and there are no such requirements at her college. She even has worked two summers in France. She is even a TA at her college for a French class. She has no minor in it or anything. Many people value being well educated in many areas and may have many interests even though they have a major and a primary interest area. </p>
<p>By the way, Calmom's D was interested in continuing her language in college, but just not majoring in it. I could say the same of my D.</p>
<p>
LOL. Naah. I don't think so. Look around a little more. ;)</p>
<p>(We can be a freakshow of opinions. Just get us wound up real good.;))</p>
<p>Details--I didn't say they require it. I say they prefer it, and most admits to Wes do have all three of those classes. That's always mentioned on their website.</p>
<p>And, I have to say, asserting that one's kid is more vegetarian than those others who are just playing at it is not a great way to garner sympathy for avoiding a class (nor I think would that stance be a popular one at Wes.) Perhaps this worked out fine all around. He sounds like a great kid with great opportunities.</p>
<p>What is obvious to me in reading these posts is that some parents have the very erroreous belief that they and by extention their child are "entitled" both to acceptance and sufficient financial aid (in the form of grants not loans).</p>
<p>These parents seemingly take no responsibility for the financial aspects and seem to feel that the college's established criteria must be bented or altered to fit their child and his/her academic profile.</p>
<p>I feel that these parents are either naive in the extreme or too lazy to investigate the process/policies of the college(s) or just have such a 'sense of entitlement' that is amazing.</p>
<p>Frankly, this is a diffiicult and complicated process (seeking a college that will match the child and fulfill the potential of the child both curent and future), for anyone, regardless of how many children they have already helped thru this process.</p>
<p>Take Curmudgeon's D and her quest two years ago. I followed with great interest the many posts he provided. As he stated in this thread, he investigated the colleges she was interested. She traveled, interviewed and did the entire process with open eyes. I think that their journey was very enlightening. Our D applied and has been accepted at Centre, a college that we discovered from Curmudgeon (and fireflyscout's posts). We looked at Rhodes because of how interesting it sounded from his posts.</p>
<p>However it all of those posts there was never (to my eyes) any hint that any of the many colleges his D investigated 'owed' her anything.</p>
<p>Frankly, I do not think that it is possible to educate some of these parents. Perhaps they love their 'opinions' so much that they are not interested in discovering the 'better' approaches to giving their child a maximum opportunity during this demanding and quite capricious process. </p>
<p>Face it 'life is not fair' and the college search process is very much 'life'!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>Maybe Wes didn't say "bio & chem" because there are a handful of kids that they have admitted who had such other outstanding credentials that they wanted the flexibility to admit them. Bottom line, details, is that, for whatever reasons, your son's application simply wasn't that outstanding to them that they would waive the normal expectations for him. We'll never know what it takes for Wes to accept a kid out of the norm, but your kid wasn't it. He is, without doubt, a wonderful kid with a lot of options. (My d wanted very much to go to Vassar; she was waitlisted and no one was taken from the waitlist.) But he wasn't a fit for Wesleyan.</p>
<p>Can't add much except to say that GC at S's school lobbied repeatedly for him to take AP Chem over AP Environmental, even though he had already taken all science and AP Bio. She felt the rigor of the course was more impressive than AP Environmental (which turned out to be tough because of the way the teacher taught it.)</p>
<p>Although this isn't relevant to OP's son, I think DS was just afraid of two quantitative courses (AP Chem and AP Calc) the same year. </p>
<p>I don't know if this hurt him in admissions. He is a member of the environmental club, but he is a bit phobic. Says he made a mistake.</p>
<p>And, again, Vassar obviously shares your values and sees it the way you do. Makes it a better school for your S because these philosophies are expressed in many ways throughout college career. Brown liked S's profile more than Dartmouth. I have a feeling his SAT math score wasn't high enough for Dartmouth (very respectable 2200 overall) and Brown didn't care. That tells me he would have been happier at Brown if he hadn't preferred Williams. A school that numbers driven wouldn't have been for him.</p>
<p>So "fit" is played by student and school. Perhaps the out-of-the-box convictions held by your S were more valued at Vassar. Wouldn't you want him to attend the school that really appreciates and values what he has to offer?</p>
<p>And has such a pretty library? (Sorry to Wes people. There are other wonderful things at Wes. I'm silly on the library.)</p>
<p>I just read the Atlantic article. What an eye opener that was. i don't think I had heard about enrollment management before reading it.</p>