<p>U.Va.'s</a> Engineering School Guarantees Admission to Students from Virginia Community Colleges.</p>
<p>I'm so thrilled.</p>
<p>yea - its only at Central Virginia Community College (where i go)…EVERYONE wants in. haha. I was thinking baout doing it, but engineering is sooooooooo BORING!</p>
<p>wait nvm- i guess all the CC’s are doing it now. my bad.</p>
<p>Maybe I didn’t make my point clear.</p>
<p>I don’t think this is good for SEAS at all, since I question how prepared CC students will be. Some NOVA and CVCS students, perhaps, but not throughout the state.</p>
<p>This might be a good time to abandon STS as well, since it appears that the transfers won’t have to take as many STS classes. </p>
<p>I wonder how enthusiastic the SEAS hierarchy is about this. I bet this wasn’t their decision.</p>
<p>
The SEAS administration was on the team that put the agreement together. The requirements listed (and they’re pretty heavy, especially in light of what seems to be a time limit) came from SEAS.</p>
<p>Contrary to MechWahoo’s positon, NOVA students do not have a monopoly on the brains required for engineering.
I ran into a couple of Tidewater Community College students in December at a Barnes and Noble(they were gift wrapping presents for a donation for their Engineering Club). One male and one female. I was impressed with both (we got talking as I mentioned my son was in engineering). They both seemed bright, responsible and dedicated to becoming engineers. Community college seemed to be a way for them to save money so they could later transfer to places like Virginia, Virginia Tech or Old Dominion. Not everyone has the funds or inclination to go directly to a 4 year program.</p>
<p>I’m not questioning ability, I’m questioning how well-prepared CC students will be. </p>
<p>I find it hard to believe that they will be on equal footing with third year UVA SEAS students.</p>
<p>I agree. I don’t think CC students are less capable, especially after two years of CC. That, and like SevMom said, some just can’t afford tuition, even IS. But, honestly, the change from CC to UVA is big, and to engineering…well, I can’t imagine. My second year e-school classes are very rigid and are geared towards preparing me for third year, upper-level engineering classes. Balancing an e-school schedule and overall college life is sometimes very difficult, and by coming in for third and fourth years, there’s little room for mistakes for CC transfers. And frankly, I took diff-EQ at NOVA over the summer, which is normally a pretty darn hard e-school class. I breezed through it with an A. I’m not trying to put down CCs overall, I know they work just as hard and often have outside factors that make them incredible people. But, this is an extremely difficult program, and I think the e-school is setting themselves up for a long road.
I think they should have considered making this less of a solid agreement, and geared it more towards second year transferring.</p>
<p>Shoebox10 and MechWahoo, Students like you may be able to help mentor some of these kids through the transition from community college to SEAS. I’m sure it will be difficult for some. As Dean J has said, sounds like the bar has been set pretty high for who will be able to transfer in from CC. Hopefully,
most will be able to handle it. I guess time will tell.
To the SEAS folks-check out the Big Bang Theory on CBS if you haven’t already done so. I think it is very funny with all the physics and engineering references.</p>
<p>A lot of engineering students do mentor first years.</p>
<p>I tutor physics and Calc now, but it is tough to get things across in the limited time I have. VT will have admitted VCCS transfers for a couple years by the time the first transfers hit UVA. I imagine we’ll learn what works from Tech.</p>
<p>some of you are such snobs it’s breathtaking…</p>
<p>I don’t think we’re snobs for having views about what would and wouldn’t work for a school we’re in. Mech and I are both e-school and both understand the rigors. I think there are better ways to introduce VCCS students into engineering without letting them have at it with just a 3.4 from a CC and fullfilling basic reqs. Sure, they’re ambitious, but it’s a huge jump and there will be a lot of pressure on transfers that can be avoided.</p>
<p>I’m a little…no, very…tired of listening to people call others snobs, worthless, dumb, etc on here. Some of us are making educated points that others have no business cutting people down about. This is a forum, everyone is entitled to speaking freely without being called a ‘snob’.</p>
<p>i’m going to have to agree with shoebox here. jtm, I’m assuming from your posts that you’re not even a college student and you’re insulting students who are part of UVa’s E. school (which is the topic of discussion here).</p>
<p>Students coming in from CCs won’t have the advantage of knowing all of the E. professors. When you go through a particular school, especially E., the classes tend to be taught by the same professors, especially as you start classes belonging to your major. You miss the opportunity to hear about the research these professors are doing and as a result, you may miss an opportunity to work on something you’re really passionate about. Also, you meet other engineering students and are able to get help from them (if necessary); from what I’ve seen of most E. schools, the students tend to form a community and it’s easier to start right from the get-go instead of halfway through.</p>
<p>I agree, didn’t even think of that. I somewhat have to disagree on the whole “same professors in a major” because I’ve had all different teachers and will seem to continue with that. However, you’re likely to see a teacher or two more than once, and I actually stay in touch with a couple of my teachers from last semester, so it’s not like you take a class and move on. Instead, you can create valuable relationships, in and out of class, that can help you with picking a concentration/research/job/etc, which I think is your point.<br>
Also, relationships on a student base form early and stick it out through the years within a certain major it seems. I have a friend knew from high school in EE with me and so he and I showed up to Circuits (ECE203) last semester on the first day, and our teacher gave us a ridiculous problem. There was a kid sorta near us who basically said “I have no idea what to do, help me!” and the three of us are great friends, and we actually spent from 5pm last night to 4am this morning, then 9-5 basically together studying for two ECE tests today. Many other students formed their “groups” early on this year when people settled into their majors, and you really can’t beat a study group where not only do you work greatly together, but you’re friends and can take a breather every once in awhile.</p>
<p>I’d like to be supportive of this agreement. Frankly, I think it’s a good thing for the College and that transition is probably a tad easier (for all you other e-schoolers: the college of arts and crafts has got to be easier! hah…not calling it that is rule #1 of being a tour guide, but it’s still funny). I wish the GPA was a tad higher, and there was some amount of work applied to the application, but I just don’t want to see only CC students fill an incoming transfer class. Sure, they’ve worked hard and maybe should have been at a 4-yr institute but just couldn’t, but just because someone else had the opportunity to go to another top school shouldn’t make them any lesser of an applicant. I know I fit into that group, since I came from VT’s top e-school, but I had legitimate reasons to transfer, and I don’t think I should be penalized because I chose a school I thought I could fit in, and didn’t.<br>
Thus, I’m worried that not only the College could possibly see its entire transfer class composed of CC agreements, but SEAS very well could too. I think it’s unlikely for a few years for the College, and even more years for SEAS, but it’s still something I don’t believe in. Especially since there are applicants from other top schools who might be better prepared to handle SEAS, and they could be denied a spot.
So, I think that the agreement should have been a bit tighter in its selection. For one, the GPA should be higher. Most students who take a course or two at a VCCS get a full letter grade, or more, higher. While CC isn’t easier, per say, I don’t think anyone can deny that a 4-yr program like UVA’s is on the same level when it comes to the workload and the amount of dedication it takes to survive, much less do well. Sure, plenty of CCers are smart, hard-working individuals. I still think the cut off should be at least a 3.6. At the same time, applicants in the range of 3.4-3.6 should be highly considered. Which brings me to my next point: for the College, and SEAS, I think there should be a set number/percentage of agreement-only spots. If there are more people who meet the agreement, then it goes by GPA, and if people are at the same exact GPA, go by credits or some other measure. This guarantees that a mix of applicants will still enter as a transfer class. While CC transfers often hail great stories, so do other transfers from 4-yr colleges. I don’t think it’s fair for them to be screwed over. Especially for a school like UVA. I don’t think they’re any more privileged, but a 3.4 from a CC getting in over a 3.9 from a top school (they existed last year on here!) is nuts.</p>
<p>This is getting long, but I’m so full of caffine that I had to let it all out. There’s points I missed, but hopefully they’ll come back to me after people either agree with me or chew me out. Cheers.
Conclusion: I’m all for CC agreements. Get your tax money’s worth man, come to UVa where life is sweet. But the agreements right now are flawed. They could possibly fill an entire class with VCCS students with lesser stats than non-VCCS students, and plus, more 3.4ers could apply than they have room for. Then what are they going to do? Increase the class sizes substantially? Also, the SEAS agreement might be setting people up for disappointment when their 3.4 goes to a 2.4 here. Again, I’M NOT SAYING THIS APPLIES TO ALL! And some people who entered here first year/non-VCCS transfer screw off and have bad GPAs. That’s not the point. The point is that in general, while the agreement is a great idea overall, the exact plan reduces spots for transfers outside of VCCS from transferring (even if they have a 4.0, if CCers fill the class, too bad), leaves little room for variety, and as far as SEAS goes, the reqs might not be enough for the average joe to make a smooth transition. I believe the SEAS agreement should have more rigorous requisites and should implement a plan to make sure CCers stay afloat, while making sure qualified students not from VCCS have a chance. UVa’s engineering is very, very unique (thesis! woot! suck it Princeton, we’re the other cool school to require it) and I know its qualities drew me here, so why limit the unique space to only certain people? There needs to be a healthy balance. And, transfer CCers to SEAS after their first year, they’re life will be so much better in the e-school because it’ll be easier to adjust and there’s a longer period of time to get a good GPA (another point about the SEAS transfer: they have four semesters to get a 3.0…if they mess up once, it’s incredibly hard to recover). Let the state foot the difference in the bills for a year since they’re so gung hoe for this agreement.</p>
<p>That is all. Let the games begin.</p>
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<p>I used to think that too.</p>
<p>That is, until I discovered NP-complete problems in biology.</p>
<p>Someone’s gotta build the computer that ercmilla is happily using without second thought. And power it. And make fridges. And roads. And bridges. And blow stuff up. And put people on the moon.</p>
<p>Yeah, that engineering thing…boring</p>
<p>Civil engineering is pretty boring (to me) actually. The problem I think is that I can’t imagine it as an exciting field of research. The materials science used to discover new kinds of concrete or build high-tension ropes for a space elevator … or building the space elevator itself – ah, that’s exciting.</p>
<p>whether engineering is vital does not have anything to do with my opinion of its excitement. You feel me? Im sure there is an aspect of engineering that would interest me (hidden deep in the abyss), but I come from a big family of engineers - and I just do not like what they do. Biomedical engineering sounds cool. As does aerospace/aeronautical engineering.</p>
<p>And for the record - I built this computer im using. ;D</p>
<p>Sorry to get you guys off topic, thought. Carry on!</p>
<p>I have very serious concerns about this program. If it were limited to a number of students, then I think it would be another good way to expand access along with financial aid programs. But to a offer a blanket guarantee to all seems like a massive loophole. It is such an insult to the many kids who were denied admission despite great stats. They will now be replaced by JC transfers whose stats are much lower.</p>
<p>This program was already implemented a while ago, wasn’t it?</p>
<p>Plus, it seems to me (from what I’ve seen) that the VCCS tends to be more rigourous than most other community colleges.</p>