serious question that has been bothering me lately

College Confidential Community
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<p>I've been reading the threads here and it seems like it gets more and more political everyday. Why is it that people who do not vote feel that they can legitimately complain about our president? I feel that if you didn't vote, then that's your problem. Why is it that 2 years after the election, people are <em>still</em> complaining about it rather than deal with the fact that Bush is our president? If you did vote, regardless of party, you have a legitimate reason to bash/congratulate our president. </p>

<p>Also, if you are not of the legal voting age, what motivates you to bash our president? Is it because your parents, teachers, and the media or do you really do research on political issues and come to that conclusion? </p>

<p>I feel that 50% of CCers do not take both sides of a political issue into consideration and about 50% are not of the voting age or didn't vote.</p>

<p>I'm not attacking anyone in particular in this post, it's just been bothering me lately after reading numerous "I hate our president" threads. You can say whatever you feel about our president, since it's protected by the first amendment, however, that doesn't mean it will be taken seriously.</p>

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<p>Hate to president is one of the most important features of America :)</p>

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<p>I agree that people who don't vote have no right to complain. I also agree that most of the posters already have their minds made up and are not open to considering the other point of view. And these are college students and parents! I thought college was supposed to be about broadening one's perspectives? The parents don't seem to be much more open-minded than the students.</p>

<p>People calling other people 'stupid' because they have a different opinion? That really makes me wonder how these people ever even make it in college.</p>

<p>I suspect that many of the people on this forum who are too young to vote are merely mimicking the stance of their parents, so their opinions don't really count either.</p>

<p>That leaves those of us who DO vote.</p>

<p>Politics has always been rather nasty. Quite a shame, imo. I have always had the belief that corruption exists in both parties, and I often see voting as choosing the 'lesser of the evils,' unfortunately.</p>

<p>The only politician to have ever inspired me is Barak Obama. I hope he doesn't sell out like Kerry did. (the youthful Kerry seemed to have b***s but the candidate Kerry was a sellout.)</p>

<p>There. See, I can criticize a Democrat as well as a Republican, so it's not just about bush, ok?</p>

<p>The real issue, smurf, is that many people are simply disatisfied with our current 'president.' (I put that in quotes because there is plenty of evidence to suggest that he obtained that office only thru fraud, BOTH times. Don't believe me? Research it. Get educated so you can make an informed decision when you vote. Be sure to research the Diebold voting machines.)</p>

<p>The president is supposed to serve the people. Instead, bush is grabbing for power and lying right and left. Even the fundamentalist Christian conservatives are upset with him for breaking his promises to them. (I have several friends who told me they plan to vote Democrat for the first time in their lives.)</p>

<p>See Pat Buchanan's book 'Where the Right Went Wrong' - he is a staunch conservative, the real deal. I have immense respect for him even though I tend to be more liberal on most issues.</p>

<p>The bush administration is neither Republican nor conservative. (Buchanan's book will explain what I mean by that.) Instead, it is operating under the guise of conservatism, but it is not.</p>

<p>This country has always had heated debates about politics. I agree that people should quit mudslinging and quit being apathetic, and do something about it if they are disatisfied. Instead of complaining, they should be out there trying to get a paper trail on the voting machines. I am incredulous that the upcoming election will still be vulnerable to voting fraud! How outrageous is that?!!</p>

<p>But it's a rather bleak and gloomy time when people know that their votes won't even count! We live in a very troubled time - if people don't wake up soon we are headed for dictatorial fascism.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I also agree that most of the posters already have their minds made up and are not open to considering the other point of view.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>C'mon, George W. Bush will undoubtedly go down in history as one of the worst presidents in American history. You can defend Republicans and conservatism, but there's no way you can defend Bush.</p>

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<p>lealdragon-</p>

<p>I will try to read that book when I have a break from college because I'm already swamped with reading! :P </p>

<p>By the way, it's not <em>all</em> college students. I am a conservative for personal reasons but before I suffer the wrath of being a conservative I do want to say that I don't agree with every single, solitary issue or politician because they have a (R) next to them. I see both sides of the issue and then make my decision. Just wanted to let you know that not every college student is ignorant. :)</p>

<p>Again, I'm not trying to attack a particular party or person, this has been on my mind for a couple of weeks.</p>

<p>nbachris-
GWB has to face his own critic in the mirror every single day, in addition to every citizen of the US. Isn't that enough? I honestly believe that if his critics (in this case, CCers) would have to face the same situations that he has been facing, they wouldn't know what to do. You can agree or disagree with his decisions, but realize he does take into consideration with every decision that he makes is that every citizen's life is in his hands. I have respect for him as a president because being a president is a huge responsiblity to take on and I don't know how he deals with the criticism he recieves without going insane. And no, I do not agree with every decison he's made during his presidency. I have respect for all Presidents who have been brave enough to lead our country.</p>

<h2>Also, in defense of lealdragon, you should reread his/her post again because <em>nowhere</em> in the post did he/she defend Bush. He/she criticized <em>both</em> Democrats and Republicans. His/her post was nonpartisan and you are trying to turn this thread into a mud-slinging competition.</h2>

<p>Once again, I'm not trying to start a Lib/conservative argument. This is a serious discussion that is nonpartisan. Also I'm not defending Bush, I'm trying to understand the situation if I were in the shoes of a President.</p>

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<p>Thanks, smurf! And that is exactly the way I am - I am neither Dem. nor Rep. but always look at all the angles of every issue. </p>

<p>That said, I do think that there is more corruption concentrated in the Republican party right now. But that could easily change. Corruption knows no boundaries.</p>

<p>Thanks for the defense. Just to clarify, I think bush is the very worst president this country has ever had. I think he is a puppet and does not make any decisions at all, but simply does what he is told. I think it is naive to think he is in charge, or that he really thinks about these issues.</p>

<p>I agree with your statements overall, smurf. I just don't think they apply to bush. He isn't a 'normal' politician who worked his way up. He got planted where he's at.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I don't think he's as evil as most people think. He is guilty of going along with it, but I don't think he gets the credit for many of the things attributed to him. He's just not smart enough, poor guy. I actually feel sorry for him for the position he got into. I don't mean that sarcastically! I detest the bush administration, which includes other people not just him, but as a person, I actually do feel sorry for him because I think powerful forces are controlling him. That is really pathetic. </p>

<p>I do agree though that someday he will meet his Maker and have to answer for it.</p>

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<p>I hate Bush's spend-and-spend economics, federal spending has sky rocketed under Bush's tenure. That's my (main) reason for disliking Bush.</p>

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<p>you're saying that becuase we're not quite old enough to vote we shouldn't talk about politics? My opinion's useless now but in six months once I reach voting age and register to vote it's suddenly fine?
I would say that we have more right to complain since we aren't allowed to vote.</p>

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<p>theveganactress-</p>

<p>I'm not saying your opinion is useless if you <em>cannot</em> vote. If you cannot vote and <em>didn't</em> do research on the issues. I think <em>most</em> people who cannot vote, like what lealdragon mimic their parents. </p>

<p>Trust me, I know where you're coming from...I wish I could've voted in the 2004 election because I knew a lot more than the average voter about political issues.</p>

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<p>I'm politically apathetic because I think the entire party system is screwed up, amongst other reasons. But I'm completely sick of people bashing Bush. He'll be president for two more years. Unless you want to start a revolution and overthrow the government and become a new leader and all that good stuff, get over it.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If you cannot vote and <em>didn't</em> do research on the issues. I think <em>most</em> people who cannot vote, like what lealdragon mimic their parents.

[/quote]

Oh, good contra-argument: "you just didn't do enough research!"
Thanks, I'll use that.</p>

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<p>^^^^^</p>

<p>um..were you being serious or sarcastic? </p>

<p>I do my research before I make my political decisons...what's wrong with that?</p>

<p>For example, I didn't know what the controversy was about ANWR drilling and instead of drinking the liberal kool-aid, or the conservative kool-aid, I did research and looked at both sides.</p>

<p>That's exactly why I'm going to vote November 7th. To know that there are people who are voting based on which way the wind blows, scares the living daylights out of me!</p>

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<p>Sorry if I offended you. What I said was,"I suspect that many of the people on this forum who are too young to vote are merely mimicking the stance of their parents, so their opinions don't really count either."</p>

<p>Please allow me to clarify:</p>

<p>I did NOT mean that people too young to vote should not speak up and have their opinions counted. My own son could hold his won in a political debate with his college prof. when he was 16. Of course his opinions counted!</p>

<p>What I meant was that many of the people who are obviously just mimicking their parents by saying things like 'bush is cool' but can't participate in an intelligent discussion because they are clearly ingnorant...THOSE people (whether of voting age or not!) don't really have any real opinions that COULD even BE counted!</p>

<p>It's the comments like 'liberals suck' or 'conservatives are idiots' that I think do not actually qualify as opinions.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
GWB has to face his own critic in the mirror every single day, in addition to every citizen of the US. Isn't that enough? I honestly believe that if his critics (in this case, CCers) would have to face the same situations that he has been facing, they wouldn't know what to do. You can agree or disagree with his decisions, but realize he does take into consideration with every decision that he makes is that every citizen's life is in his hands. I have respect for him as a president because being a president is a huge responsiblity to take on and I don't know how he deals with the criticism he recieves without going insane. And no, I do not agree with every decison he's made during his presidency. I have respect for all Presidents who have been brave enough to lead our country.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>When you're the most powerful man of the most powerful country in the world, every monumental screwup you make SHOULD be scrutinized more than TO's latest antics.</p>

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<p>"would have to face the same situations that he has been facing, they wouldn't know what to do. "</p>

<p>People are always making excuses for bush's lack of intelligence, his bungled speech, his lack of articulate speaking skills, etc. Some say he is ADD or has some other learning disability.</p>

<p>As a regular person, I wouldn't hold that against him. But, would you want a person with 'mediocre' intelligence to be CEO of your company?</p>

<p>Then why would you want him as president?</p>

<p>The president SHOULD be smarter than most of us, more articulate than most of us, and make better decisions than most of us. He SHOULD 'know what to do.'</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I agree that people who don't vote have no right to complain.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I certainly hope the reason you're voting isn't so that you can just complain all the time.</p>

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<p>"
I certainly hope the reason you're voting isn't so that you can just complain all the time."</p>

<p>huh???</p>

<p>How did you get THAT out of what I said?</p>

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<p>Maybe you guys need to take civics class over again... The reason why you vote is because it is your duty as a citizen of the United States. We are a representative democracy, therefore, we get to decide who we want leading our country and representing us. If we are unhappy with the way the person is leading, we vote that person out in 4 years. </p>

<p>And I don't think lealdragon and I want to vote just to have the right to complain. We are doing our duty by voting and since I am a female, and I'm assuming lealdragon is too bc of her profile, it is even more important to excercise our right to vote because women in the past were denied for a long time. I would like to make sure that the women who fought for our rights to vote did not die in vain. Also, our military is defending our freedoms and I don't think spending 5 minutes at the booth is going to hurt us in any way. We should honor what they are protecting, by excercising our freedoms.</p>

<p>If you think about it, you really don't have a voice to complain about our leader (legitimately) if you didn't have the voice to vote. (this is if you are of the legal voting age and chose not to do your duty)</p>

<h2>If you are not of the legal voting age, please do some research on the issues facing today and think for yourself, rather than having your parents and the media make your decisions for you. If you are interested about 9/11, read the 9/11 commission report (something that is credible and is bipartisan) instead of watching Fahreinheit 9/11 (someone created this with an agenda) and draw your own conclusions. Or, watch Fahreinheit 9/11 and watch the the rebuttal to it, to get both sides. By doing research and analyzing both sides, this will lead you to becoming an informed voter when you do turn 18.</h2>

<p>lealdragon-</p>

<p>How do you define intelligence? Based on your post, my definition of intelligence is completely different. :P</p>

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<p>"If you are not of the legal voting age, please do some research on the issues facing today and think for yourself, rather than having your parents and the media make your decisions for you..."</p>

<p>Agreed.</p>

<p>If you are interested about 9/11, read the 9/11 commission report (something that is credible and is bipartisan) instead of watching Fahreinheit 9/11 (someone created this with an agenda) </p>

<p>Respectfully, I disagree that the 911 commission report is credible and bipartisan. Since you believe in looking at both sides of an issue, I am surprised that you seem to automatically accept that the 'official' story is the 'right' one (without corruption) and any 'fringe' sides are fueled by some agenda. </p>

<p>In the spirit of open-minded investigation, I invite you to read this:</p>

<p>The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions
by David Ray Griffin </p>

<p>"...Embracing the complicity theory, Griffin claims the 9/11 Commission's report, labeled the Kean-Zelikow Report here to underline the White House allegiances of its Republican chairman and director, was neither thorough nor non-partisan but rather a "cover-up" designed to back up the Bush administration's view of the day's events. Among the problems Griffin says the commissioners fail to address are discrepancies in the hijackers' identities; the behavior exhibited by President Bush and his Secret Service contingent in Florida; and the charges of obstruction by higher-ups made by FBI agent Coleen Rowley and other mid-level officials. In fact, "revisionism" was the Commission's major goal, argues the author, since the report reconstructs the timelines of the hijackings, officials' teleconferences and the plane crashes to absolve the military of mishandling jet fighters' intercepts of the doomed passenger aircraft. Supported by news media reports, government documents and readily available secondary sources, Griffin's research raises valid questions about the Commission's political aims and investigative methods..."</p>

<p>There is also a video about the 911 Commission, as told by some of the victims' families. See my thread (in this section) entitled '911 widows.'</p>

<p>"and draw your own conclusions. Or, watch Fahreinheit 9/11 and watch the the rebuttal to it, to get both sides. By doing research and analyzing both sides, this will lead you to becoming an informed voter when you do turn 18..."</p>

<p>I agree with this part. While you're at it, I suggest also watching '911 Mysteries' along with any rebuttals that may come out (I haven't seen any rebuttals to this yet - that will be interesting!)</p>

<p><a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It's MUCH better than Fahrenheit 911 - 911 Mysteries is very objective, without Michael Moore's commentary or humor. 911 Mysteries is serious and scholarly. I invite everyone to watch this and have their minds totally blown!</p>

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<p>"How do you define intelligence? Based on your post, my definition of intelligence is completely different. :P"</p>

<p>Which post? The one in which I implied that bush is not intelligent? You are right that there are different types of intelligence. But how is your definition different? What do you think my definition is?</p>

<p>My definition would be: the ability to think on one's feet. The ability to answer questions without a teleprompter. The ability to THINK, quite simply. bush is unable to speak in anything other than short soundbites that he has memorized or reads off the teleprompter. When asked difficult questions, he just repeats the soundbites.</p>

<p>Reminds me of that movie (can't remember the name) about the mentally challenged gardener who became president because people thought he was so wise when he offered these short phrases - people thought he was saying something profound but actually he was just talking about his garden.</p>

<p>I think people give bush too much credit as well as too much blame. A mastermind of anything, he is not. He's just a puppet, a frontman (and soon to be a fall guy) imo.</p>