<p>I will hold you and your son in the light.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is my problem with many of your posts, ID. You seem to think that any college kid who drinks, or "binge drinks" on ANY occasion, must not care at all about his or her education.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I've never said that nor do I believe that. I don't even really find occasional binge drinking to be a huge problem, particularly at the lower end of the binge drinking definition.</p>
<p>Drinking 'til you puke. Drinking til you blackout. Drinking til you drop trou' and urinate in public. Frequent and/or heavy binge drinking? Big problem in my book. Call me old fashioned. I ain't spending $175,000 for a kid to be a heavy binge drinker (Otis the Town Drunk).</p>
<p>A repeated high school binge drinker is at a very high risk of being a frequent binge drinker in college. I would want some reassurances that is not the case or I would say, "lets hold off on college until you are ready".</p>
<p>
[quote]
If there are further incidences like this in college, I won't support him.
[/quote]
You may not find out about it, unless there is an ER bill in the mail... I think Chedva's advice was very good:
[quote]
have him sign a blanket release, to be given to the registrar, the Dean of Students, the Dean of Freshmen, and the Health Center allowing them to contact you should any incidents involving alcohol occur, and allowing them to speak to you when you call about any topic you wish to discuss.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm going to give this program a try. I don't consider my son a major alcholic. This can be a huge wake-up call for him. Stopping him from going away to school won't change how he is, if he can drink here, he can drink there as noted. I don't want this to be a death sentence for him, but a "you have been put on notice" thing. He is smart and resourceful so he should be able to manage his life without me. I'm not spending 175k for him to go to school(remember scholarship?), and he will have to prove things to me and the school he is going to. If he doesn't maintain the proper GPA, bye-bye scholarship. I am here to support my son, not crush him.</p>
<p>Bogart, I think the HS is offering you a heck of a deal. I think by the time he's done with the program, you and he will know if he's got a more severe drinkng problem than a one-time binge. Good luck.</p>
<p>"I believe I've read studies that show two activities correlating with low binge drinking rates: academic engagement and community service."</p>
<p>When people write things like this, I know they've never read any studies at all about anything whatsoever. They may have read a newspaper or Today's Health **article **about a study, but they obviously can't remember any details since they're not even sure whether they read it or not. And even if they did read an article, given the average level of numeracy of journalists, chances are about 99% that the article misstated the conclusions of the study or that the study was totally flawed and the reporter couldn't tell the difference -- or both.</p>
<p>You know, idad, for someone who purports to not consider binge drinking that big a problem, you sure take any and all opportunities to rail against it and tar anyone who indulges as a drunk who is just partying their way through college.</p>
<p>If you truly think that binge drinking is no that big a problem, I'd advise you start rethinking your tone, because it's getting to the point (at least for me, though judging by comments a number of others as well) where I see a post of yours and don't even have to read it to know almost exactly what it says.</p>
<p>For example, if you want to be fair and balanced to the issue you could point out that many students drink (yes, even to the point of passing out!) and are highly successful at college; you could mention that a student drinking is not necessarily an indictment of them as students or people; and then you could mention that drinking can also lead to serious consequences for academics and personal life and parents and students alike must be careful.</p>
<p>But instead of taking that approach, you spend your time making ridiculous and exaggerated posts containing all kinds of stupid generalizations. Oh well, your loss.</p>
<p>Excellent result! I hope the program is beneficial.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There was already a plan in place for situations like this. He had 2 options. One was a 5 day suspension, with that going on his transcript to college. If caught drinking, immediate expulsion. </p>
<p>Second option was to attend a program involving 3 days at a different school in our district, that teaches them about drug/alcohol abuse. Also 10 hours community service, 5 hours of alanon/alateen. I have to go to a parent class/meeting next week. And 8 one hour meetings over the course of 8 weeks. If any of those things are not met, back to the 5 day suspension. If everything is fulfilled nothing goes on his transcript to college, he gets to walk with his class, etc. </p>
<p>He can't go back to regular classes till all of this is fulfilled and finals will be taken in his in school suspension. He will get to present a final project in one class next week. All of his teachers are aware. He chose the second option.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Kind of a complicated set of rules, but a good deal, I think.</p>
<p>What a great mom you are Bogat and sounds like the school has a good plan and truly cares about your son. Follow your own gut and inner wisdom. Your son is lucky to have you. Best of luck to your family. God Bless</p>
<p>bogart, I'm glad your SD has this policy in place. It is a much wiser approach than just tossing the kid overboard. The system may not be perfect, but at least it approaches alcohol abuse the way it is supposed to be approached - it is a disease that needs to be dealt with before it gets out of control. Your son needs help, and I hope he will get at least some by going through the sequence. Good luck. Whoever said that raising a kid is much easier than running a business, they are dead wrong.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You know, idad, for someone who purports to not consider binge drinking that big a problem, you sure take any and all opportunities to rail against it and tar anyone who indulges as a drunk who is just partying their way through college.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I want there to a stigma attached to drinking like Otis the Town Drunk. The reason that we have this problem is that parents, high schools, and colleges attach no stigma whatsoever to the most absurd drunken behaviors. It's rationalized as "just being college kids" when the best and the brightest drop trou and urinate in public or vomit all over somebody's dorm. I'm just calling it what it is.</p>
<p>
[quote]
For example, if you want to be fair and balanced to the issue you could point out that many students drink (yes, even to the point of passing out!) and are highly successful at college; you could mention that a student drinking is not necessarily an indictment of them as students or people; and then you could mention that drinking can also lead to serious consequences for academics and personal life and parents and students alike must be careful.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Why would I want to send the message to little Biffy and Buffy that it's OK for them to behave like the town drunk? That, don't worry, your trust fund will still be there after they release you from the ER for alcohol poisoning? Heck, no. IMO, Biffy and Buffy are adults and should be expected to behave like adults in exchange for the PRIVILEDGE of a $175,000 education. Responsible adults don't whip it out and urinate in the dorm lounge. Responsible adults don't drink 'til they puke or blackout.</p>
<p>
[quote]
When people write things like this, I know they've never read any studies at all about anything whatsoever. They may have read a newspaper or Today's Health article about a study, but they obviously can't remember any details since they're not even sure whether they read it or not.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, I've read most, if not all, of the publically available studies on college alcohol abuse.</p>
<p>Here you go:</p>
<p>
[quote]
What Are the Centers of Student Binge Drinking?</p>
<p>Fraternities and sororities and intercollegiate athletics are centers of alcohol abuse on campuses.</p>
<p>While student binge drinkers tend to be male, white, and under 24 years of age, the strongest predictor of binge drinking is fraternity or sorority residence or membership. Four of five students who live in fraternities and sororities are binge drinkers.</p>
<p>Athletes binge more than others. In 1999, 29 percent of athletes were frequent binge drinkers, compared to 22 percent of non-athletes.</p>
<p>Students least likely to binge are African American or Asian, age 24 years or older, or married. As a group, African Americans, and particularly women, have the lowest prevalence of binge drinking. In 1999, only 16 percent of African American students binged, compared to 49 percent of white students.</p>
<p>Students who put a priority on their studies, who devote time to special interests such as art, or who participate in volunteer activities are less likely to binge.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In the main, I agree with ID. Youth will be youth, of course, and I well understand that. But I also think that when schools like our common alma mater have heavy drinking (near daily drinking, or 3-4 binges in a two week period) rates of 30%, and higher for whites and for males, I think colleges have abnegated their responsibility as EDUCATIONAL institutions. Roughly 60% of college heavy drinkers will end up in my professsional balliwick, either as alcoholics or a individuals suffering serious alcohol problems as adults. The colleges KNOW this, and while they might enjoy the thought of inebriated alumni reaching into their wallets to contribute, the reality is that the non-heavy drinkers have to live around all this crap (and at my alma mater, I wish it were just urinating in the hallways, rather than the new campus tradition of feces spreading). Why parents would think it's okay for their moderate or non-drinking little Judies to live around this stuff is beyond me. </p>
<p>Perhaps if they put the heavy drinking rates into the USNWR rankings, college administrators might get a wakeup call.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You know, idad, for someone who purports to not consider binge drinking that big a problem
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Just to set the record straight, this is not what I said. This is mispresenting my statement.</p>
<p>What I said was "I don't ... find occaisional binge drinking to be a huge problem, particularly at the lower end of the binge drinking definition."</p>
<p>In other words, I don't think it's the end of the world for a college student to go out once a month or twice a month and have five beers in an evening. I'm aware that college students drink and don't find that shocking or terribly troubling to the extent that they behave like responsible adults. These are, by and large, not the college drinkers who are causing problems.</p>
<p>As a matter of practical policy, if I were running a college, I would focus on identifying and eliminating the category of "frequent binge drinking" on my campus.</p>
<p>ID- Do you have to have a trust fund to binge drink? You seem to imply such.</p>
<p>Higher Binge drinking rates tend to correlate with higher family income levels. Binge drinking is expensive.</p>
<p>Apparently at most colleges, even though drinking and/or underage drinking may be against the rules in dorms or on campus, it is tolerated. This is actually condoning the behavior. It seems to me that colleges could make it much more difficult for drinking to take place on their own properties. Not everyone will want to make the extra effort to find a place off campus to drink. Many of the kids don't just have a drink or two, but they get drunk; and the fact remains that there are many undesirable effects of drunkenness.</p>
<p>I also know that many kids, especially after the freshman year, live off-campus and host/go to parties off-campus, and there is no stopping that. But I wish the colleges would enforce the rules that are on the books for dorm and other on-campus drinking.</p>
<p>While I also disagree with some of ID's extreme assumptions about drinking on campus, I also find it sad that people are eager to demonize him and his points of view to deflect attention from the OP's issues. Bottom line- none of us know if the OP's kid has a serious problem. A fact, however- a kid who doesn't drink is not going to become an alcoholic. Period full stop. I cannot be the only parent on this board whose kids drink and who worries that I won't/don't know where the line is between occasional and responsible drinking and a kid with a problem and denial too deep to get help.</p>
<p>The denial could be my kids- or mine- or my spouses- or caring siblings and family members. Doesn't matter. If my kid were diabetic or had kidney disease or a melanoma, the kid would be getting the most appropriate treatment I could find and could afford. It is a little scary to realize that we all reassure each other in a forum like this, 'oh, all HS kids drink" or "my kid is a Rhodes Scholar and even he passes out and vomits from time to time" or whatever. It normalizes abnormal behavior, it lulls us into complacency that everyone else's high achieving kid acts like our kid, and it reduces our parenting instincts to get intervention when there's a problem.</p>
<p>I have a close friend whose kid is now in treatment for alchoholism. There is enormous guilt among the kids friends and probably more guilt among the parent's friends. The kids feel guilty that he got caught, his future plans are on hold while he is in treatment, his parents may never trust him again, "his life is ruined", etc. The adults feel guilty (myself included) that even though we knew of the family "heritage" (genetic? behavioral? who cares) which meant that even moderate drinking would put this particular kid at enormous risk to develop a problem very quickly... we didn't intervene. Kid's drinking was actually less problematic than some of his peers- didn't drive, wasn't engaging in high risk behavior while drunk, just drinking and passing out. YOUR kid might be in a position to do that a couple of times and move on. A kid with a family history of substance abuse is not likely to do it and then move on to the next video game or other recreational habit.</p>
<p>So who failed this kid? And how lucky are we all that he didn't wrap his car around a tree or kill his prom date or any of the other hideous things that teenagers in my area seem to do in May/June with great regularity. And the guy whose date died? He's going to be fine. She died at the scene; he was pulled out of the wreck with the jaws of life, his parents insisting to the press for an entire week that "he'd never had a drink in his life". Maybe not- but his blood alchohol level when he was admitted to the ER suggests that he was either a habitual drinker who needed an enormous amount of booze to get drunk and therefore was only moderately impaired, or a very stupid first timer who was enormously impaired. Doesn't matter- the girl is dead.</p>
<p>So lay off of IDad. Don't shoot the messenger.</p>
<p>Colleges don't want to do anything to encourage drinking and driving, which is why many of them "allow" it on campus.</p>
<p>ID- It seems to be pretty easy to get free drinks on campuses. Crashing frat parties is pretty much the norm, or Otis tags along with Biffy and Buffy and lets them pay.</p>