SGS - Hidden Gem?

Prep School Admissions
21

<p>I'm going to weigh in with my thoughts here regarding the notion that SGS has upped the ante on its students. While I cannot possibly speak to trends -- I can say that my personal experience with SGS did not leave me with the impression that it was upping any ante, at least not academically.</p>

<p>Mind you, I think it is a terrific school...and would be a terrific school even if it were located in Upper Sandusky instead of just outside of Newport. But my conversations with admission personnel regarding what they were looking for and what they weren't so interested in have left me scratching my head. I always thought that the St. Gorgeous comments were sort of silly, borne out of the respect-hate relationships that bond the N.E. boarding school communities together. But conversations with admission officers actually reinforced that St. Gorgeous is a value that they actively strive for. Without using that specific term, that's what they painted as the ideal student and -- unbelievably -- downplayed academic success and academic potential.</p>

<p>Again, I am not trying to suggest that SGS can't carry water with other top prep schools. I think it can. But if applying there, I would suggest that there's a different sort of "fit" factor that the school is looking for. And if it's the sort of factor that you, too, are looking for...you may have just found yourself a terrific school, with a beautiful campus...and "beautiful" people. If that's appealing to you...then I've heard it straight from the source: that's appealing to them.</p>

<p>If this comes across as judgmental, I guess the acorn doesn't fall far from the oak. But it shouldn't be an indictment of SGS as much as it is meant to be an object lesson in knowing your child and the schools and settling upon a mutual fit.</p>

<p>The only thing that was truly bothersome to me about this was the timing of this disclosure/revelation about fit: because they had decided well before my S had applied that he wasn't going to like the social climate and would prefer a different type of BS. I had several conversations with people in admissions since then -- some of them extremely candid about campus life -- and not a hint of this fait accompli came out. In fact, the conversations were very candid and extraordinarily encouraging. One prominent SGS parent -- who I happen to know -- called me to assure me that the school would provide a great experience for my S. Yet they decided -- I believe correctly in retrospect -- he would have not clicked with the clique. I'm glad that they saw this; I wish I had seen it, too; but why not just discuss it instead of sending totally opposite signals right up to March 10? (Insanely enough, the latest comment I had from them was to inquire whether they thought my S would apply next fall because they'd love to see whether he might find the campus scene more agreeable. And unless HS nowadays is a place for kids to become less cynical, can anyone see that happening?) </p>

<p>This sort of total snow job is not unique to SGS. I think it's common to all the schools from the tippy, tippy top BS on down the mythical hierarchy. From admissions to wait lists and everything in between. I just thought that it was worth also pointing out that this running theme of admissions people not being totally honest at every stage of the process was worth bringing out here, too.</p>

22

<p>I'm going to weigh in with my thoughts here regarding the notion that SGS has upped the ante on its students. While I cannot possibly speak to trends -- I can say that my personal experience with SGS did not leave me with the impression that it was upping any ante, at least not academically.</p>

<p>Mind you, I think it is a terrific school...and would be a terrific school even if it were located in Upper Sandusky instead of just outside of Newport. But my conversations with admission personnel regarding what they were looking for and what they weren't so interested in have left me scratching my head. I always thought that the St. Gorgeous comments were sort of silly, borne out of the respect-hate relationships that bond the N.E. boarding school communities together. But conversations with admission officers actually reinforced that St. Gorgeous is a value that they actively strive for. Without using that specific term, that's what they painted as the ideal student and -- unbelievably -- downplayed academic success and academic potential.</p>

<p>Again, I am not trying to suggest that SGS can't carry water with other top prep schools. I think it can. But if applying there, I would suggest that there's a different sort of "fit" factor that the school is looking for. And if it's the sort of factor that you, too, are looking for...you may have just found yourself a terrific school, with a beautiful campus...and "beautiful" people. If that's appealing to you...then I've heard it straight from the source: that's appealing to them.</p>

<p>If this comes across as judgmental, I guess the acorn doesn't fall far from the oak. But it shouldn't be an indictment of SGS as much as it is meant to be an object lesson in knowing your child and the schools and settling upon a mutual fit.</p>

<p>The only thing that was truly bothersome to me about this was the timing of this disclosure/revelation about fit: because they had decided well before my S had applied that he wasn't going to like the social climate and would prefer a different type of BS. I had several conversations with people in admissions since then -- some of them extremely candid about campus life -- and not a hint of this fait accompli came out. In fact, the conversations were very candid and extraordinarily encouraging. One prominent SGS parent -- who I happen to know -- called me to assure me that the school would provide a great experience for my S. Yet they decided -- I believe correctly in retrospect -- he would have not clicked with the clique. I'm glad that they saw this; I wish I had seen it, too; but why not just discuss it instead of sending totally opposite signals right up to March 10? (Insanely enough, the latest comment I had from them was to inquire whether they thought my S would apply next fall because they'd love to see whether he might find the campus scene more agreeable. And unless HS nowadays is a place for kids to become less cynical, can anyone see that happening?) </p>

<p>This sort of total snow job is not unique to SGS. I think it's common to all the schools from the tippy, tippy top BS on down the mythical hierarchy. From admissions to wait lists and everything in between. I just thought that it was worth also pointing out that this running theme of admissions people not being totally honest at every stage of the process was worth bringing out here, too.</p>

23

<p>I'm going to weigh in with my thoughts here regarding the notion that SGS has upped the ante on its students. While I cannot possibly speak to trends -- I can say that my personal experience with SGS did not leave me with the impression that it was upping any ante, at least not academically speaking.</p>

<p>Mind you, I think it is a terrific school...and would be a terrific school even if it were located in Upper Sandusky instead of just outside of Newport. But my conversations with admission personnel regarding what they were looking for and what they weren't so interested in have left me scratching my head. I always thought that the St. Gorgeous comments were sort of silly, borne out of the respect-hate relationships that bond the N.E. boarding school communities together. But conversations with admission officers actually reinforced that St. Gorgeous is a value that they actively strive for. Without using that specific term, that's what they painted as the ideal student and -- unbelievably -- downplayed academic success and academic potential.</p>

<p>Again, I am not trying to suggest that SGS can't carry water with other top prep schools. I think it can. But if applying there, I would suggest that there's a different sort of "fit" factor that the school is looking for. And if it's the sort of factor that you, too, are looking for...you may have just found yourself a terrific school, with a beautiful campus...and "beautiful" people. If that's appealing to you...then I've heard it straight from the source: that's appealing to them.</p>

<p>If this comes across as judgmental, I guess the acorn doesn't fall far from the oak. But it shouldn't be an indictment of SGS as much as it is meant to be an object lesson in knowing your child and the schools and settling upon a mutual fit.</p>

<p><em> <code></code> <code></code> <code></code> </em> <code></code> <code></code> <code></code> *

The only thing that was truly bothersome to me about this was the timing of this disclosure/revelation about fit: because they had decided well before my S had applied that he wasn't going to like the social climate and would prefer a different type of BS. I had several conversations with people in admissions since then -- some of them extremely candid about campus life -- and not a hint of this fait accompli came out. In fact, the conversations were very candid and extraordinarily encouraging. One prominent SGS parent -- who I happen to know -- called me to assure me that the school would provide a great experience for my S. Yet they decided -- I believe correctly in retrospect -- he would have not clicked with the clique. I'm glad that they saw this; I wish I had seen it, too; but why not just discuss it instead of sending totally opposite signals right up to March 10? (Insanely enough, the latest comment I had from them was to inquire whether they thought my S would apply next fall because they'd love to see whether he might find the campus scene more agreeable. And unless HS nowadays is a place for kids to become less cynical, can anyone see that happening?) </p>

<p>This sort of total snow job is not unique to SGS. I think it's common to all the schools from the tippy, tippy top BS on down the mythical hierarchy. From admissions to wait lists and everything in between. I just thought that it was worth also pointing out that this running theme of admissions people not being totally honest at every stage of the process was worth bringing out here, too.</p>

24

<p>I think I made my point clearer by making it three times, no? </p>

<p>UGH. What's really bad is I have no idea how that happened.</p>

25

<p>All I'll say in response to that is that though you moderate the 'charge' somewhat, invoking the st. gorgeous phrase as having any real significance is utterly reductionist and somewhat silly (this is certainly not meant as an 'ad hominem' comment though). All schools are defined to some extent by their students, yes, but to say that the students at St. George's are defined in any way by being 'beautiful' is absurd. Someone who might not feel comfortable at St. George's, in my opinion at least, would probably not feel comfortable at St. Paul's or Groton or at Middlesex either. Broadly speaking, the students at these four schools are very similar socio-economically, politically and academically; and there are cliques in every school on the planet (to varying degrees, yes, but my class at St. George's wasn't "clique-y" at all).</p>

26

<p>Scratch that... I'd also like to reply to your comment of "downplaying academic success". If academic success is ALL that you want in this day and age, it probably makes more sense not to go to a boarding school (though this is not to say that academic success is not achievable at boarding schools-clearly it is), if only because the only reason to be a boarder in 2007 is for the experience over and above what you are getting in the classroom; there are obviously rigorous day schools. The education that schools like St. George's and Groton, St. Paul's etc, offer (and it really is offer because it is completely possible to go to any boarding school and just waste your four years) however is truly unique and extends far beyond the classroom.
In the case of St. George's, having Newport to explore and discover was analogous to a classroom in its own right (where the subjects could include the extraordinary beauty and power of nature, morality, responsibility etc). This comment might provoke some skepticism, but I think it is an experience that if you have not had personally might be hard to relate to.
Thus I think what the St. Grottlesex schools (distinctively I believe) have marketed/offered from the beginning is a top academic education and an education in character.</p>

27

<p>IMHO, the St. Grottlesex schools as a group rival any other group(s) of schools/lists in providing a superior education. With schools such as SPS, Groton, Middlesex, SGS and SMS you have some mighty fine institutions that do education proud. They all have a wonderful history as well.
I also might add that Middlesex, SPS and Groton all have a higher SAT average than Andover. Understand, for those who know me, this means little to me but, for those that it does, I present it for you. I believe and I will always believe that no matter what school you attend, if it fits, you're going to get a heck of an education if you take advantage of the resources available to you.</p>

28

<p>Look, ps06, I'm not saying that that's my predisposition. It was to my surprise that that's what I got as feedback. In my case, my son doesn't lack for ECs and that's pretty important to him. His decision matrix was basically to look at Latin and ECs...rationalizing that all the schools he was applying to were awesome in the other disciplines and those areas were, for him, the differential. And I think that was wise which was why I was glad for him to apply to SGS. I think it's a fine school. But I've spoken with any number of admissions offices about the applicant pool this year, what they were looking for and the SGS comments were just...well...different.</p>

<p>Now, I'll give you the word "clique" -- as that was all mine -- but I found the description of the students they're looking for to have been outside the normal vocabulary and characteristics that we've heard articulated here time and again for the top BS. It is in hopes that the conversation I had was not one of dozens and was a one-time thing (perhaps the product of too much coffee or not enough coffee or something else) that I'm reluctant to repeat exact phrases. </p>

<p>The bottom line, however, is not whether my comments should be regarded as a pejorative or an appreciation. Either way, the universal point that people should take away from this is that SGS is not fungible with the other St. Grottlesex or ISL schools. It's a unique creature and before applying one ought to know these unique traits of the schools as well as they know themselves (or their children). This is a truth that applies to all schools and all children who apply to them. Whether it's because SGS is taking a harder look at academics these days or some other traits that they want in their students is a question that's best left up to one's personal discovery.</p>

29

<p>While what you say is true in terms of the experience that a school itself offers, as someone who went to St. George's recently, played against other top boarding schools in sports, and had friends that went to the other schools that you are referring to... there simply isn't the gap that you are suggesting between the student body at St. George's and the student bodies at other similar schools. Secondly, in a general sense I think it should be pretty obvious that what the admissions folks at St. Paul's are looking for is not all that different from what their counterparts in Newport are looking for....</p>

30

<p>It would be nice if posters would limit the length of their replies. Some posts are so long (and posted three times to boot) and repetitive that reading some of them would be a good antedote for insomnia.</p>

<p>Do you see yourself?</p>

31

<p>loophole - the duplicate posts are obviously a mistake or glitch
personally, i like reading the longer posts - they're usually more insightful</p>

<p>here's a brief suggestion for you: if you don't like 'em, don't read 'em</p>

32

<p>SGS is in Middletown, RI. It's in a nice area.. by the bay, by the ocean; by sailing, by surfing. That's the school's pitch. Not, "We have lots of really motivated, bright kids who love intellectual debates and have quirky interests." Not that they don't, but that's not what they look for, as D'yer said above. The proximity to Newport is the school's "thing."</p>

<p>One thing that's really alarming/interesting about SGS is how easy it is to typecast its students. Now, mind you, I have spent my summers with these kids for the past 4 years, and my knowledge doesn't come from the Student Life anecdotes. It's a small school, so I think this happens naturally. And that's perfectly fine; it makes SGS unique. I like that about SGS - theres a collective identity among its students. But, I also like diversity and wanted more intellectual and interesting classes, which is why I didn't go through with applying.</p>

<p>My uncle had an apprentice this summer who was hilariously SGS-typical. I went sailing by my uncle's company, and since he was entertaining guests for an extended period of time one week, he asked the intern to drive me to and from sailing. He happily volunteered (nice guy). This guy was so typically SGS. First, he was interning for my uncle's company, which is a shipping company. He said, "I just want to make my living through the ocean - if I can do that, I'm happy." He said his favorite thing to do was to surf in the rain. He sped home one day like he was being chased by the FBI because there was a huge swell from a storm off the west coast of Africa, and "had to catch it." He was on a professional sailing team. We talked about his experience at SGS, and he wasn't slow to ascertain my view on SGS. He said, "Yeah, it's a nice school, but..." and then mentioned a few personal anecdotes about how it's a very... _________ school. Ehmm, I can't think of a word.. he painted it as a place you shouldn't go if you're really want an education (an academic one, at least), but rather, learn things in, say, English and History class that will be useful to mention at a cocktail party.. but not actual understand/learn them, just.. pretend. He wasn't a bookish guy (at all), but by NO means uneducated or unintelligent. He said that "you need to find your crowd at SGS" and that there are a lot of "phony" people. He said "I just found a group of cool kids there and then just kicked it with them for the next four years." (I think he was sent off by his parents, and that he was a SGS legacy, so I don't think he exactly chose to attend.) So.. he - the embodiment of SGS-ness - even realized its flaws, but embraced its peculiarities (w/o knowing it, I think..).</p>

<p>PS -- the Dean thing is hurting your argument. Dean has been labeled an upstart w/ unrefined disposition and inferiority complex in the past, esp. in comparison the Bush Sr. (post link in a sec.)</p>

33

<p>I don't read them. He comes across as a know-it-all and a blow-hard.
Just my opinion but anyone who has posted almost 500 times on a site is suspect. He should have better things to do than engage kids in a superior mode.</p>

<p>The site used to be mostly the kids talking to each other with an occasional good post from Burb Parent, Goaliedad, or prepparent. Now it's been taken over by someone who has to comment 3 long paragraphs on every little thing.</p>

34

<p>worse than a bunch of 13 year olds giving a lot of misinformation like it's the gospel truth? ;)</p>

35

<p>Point is, it's unique, and you shouldn't go if it doesn't fit. It's a good thing that SGS is "hidden" (from this board) because I think it's a school you really should know in depth before enrolling, since it's unique. Again, that's why I like it.. but I wanted to take weird classes like West African Drumming and Rebels and Revolt, and the only interesting (to me) elective class like that at SGS was The 1960's.</p>

<p>And the above anecdote was one of the few things I didn't like about SGS (clique quality and "phoniness" that the grad explained.. one grad, of a few).</p>

<p>When I look at the archives every now and then, I find some kid who is crazy about SGS, so it's not hidden, it just doesn't cater to every interest.</p>

36

<p>You're completely wrong about st. George's and I should know because I just graduated. Sure there are those types, but I promise you that they are at St. Paul's and at Andover and at Groton and all the other schools. None of my five best friends from st. georges have ever gone near a surfboard. Furthermore, one of my best friends was about the furtherst from your erroneous description of an SGS student as you can get.... he's absolutely brilliant, got 5's on something like 14 ap's, perfect score on psat's, virtually perfect on sat's (like one question wrong)... he applied to harvard, yale and williams and got into all three (didn't need a backup). He is not an anomaly. I consider myself an intellectual and I LOVED St. George's. You're understanding is completely superficial and utterly incorrect.</p>

37

<p>The "Dean thing" is not my argument... it was made by David Brooks a well-regarded Conservative contributor to the New York Times....and I promise you (having actually spent some time with him - his nephew was a good friend of mine) Dean is quite refined and very smart. MY point about Bush was that the founder of the Bushes as an important family WENT to St. George's (Prescott). Furthermore your comment about interesting and "intellectual" classes was a non sequitur..... the quality of the classes has much more to do with the faculty (who I assure you is top notch) than with the fallacious caricature of the students that you offered. For example one english teacher I had was the former head of the English department at Brown university... another english teacher was dean of admissions at Columbia in a former life. My history teacher and mentor has a doctorate in history, but majored in classics at Princeton and was incredibly knowledgeable. As much as what you have said annoys me, it would really offend a great deal of St. George's older alumni (were they to ever see it)... I remember an interview with J. Carter Brown, a leading figure in the art world and a Groton graduate, describing his father's (John Nicholas Brown) education at St. George's...an extraordinary education it was. In one example J. Carter remembered asking his father for help with translating a greek text and upon seeing the first sentence his father recited the next several hundreds lines from memory and then proceeded to translate them. While this is not obviously relevant to today's SG student, I offer it as a secondary point that not only are many St. George's students intellectuals (and 98% are nothing like the person you described), but that st. george's has an incredible tradition of intellectualism.</p>

38

<p>Of course there are smart people at SGS. I didn't say otherwise. I said I wanted to take really "weird" intellectual electives.. something a small school just didn't offer. I like SGS. I like Tabor. But I chose Exeter because I wanted a bigger school, more classes to choose from, and more diversity. Stop taking it so personally. You seem proud to have attended SGS. Stay proud; it's a nice school. Don't get angry because others feel they would be a better fit at another school... you don't want people who don't fit at your school!!!</p>

<p>Maybe all of the kids/grads I met from SGS throughout my childhood represented SGS falsely. Plausible. But there have been so many, from grad years and cliques, each of them corroborating my previous impression, that I have a hard time believing one kid who says that's completely wrong. Going there doesn't make you like every other kid there. Hell no. But there is a collective identity (at least that I see, as someone who wasn't immersed in the culture, and has an outside perspective....), as there is in many small, established schools. Nothing wrong with that. Again, for the 6th time, that's why I like SGS, but also why I didn't apply.</p>

39

<p>Well if you happen to say that it's easy to typecast students in a specific way... and I happened to have been a student who would feel insulted if "typecasted" in that way... it's quite a personal thing unfortunately.
Obviously I have no problem with where you feel you would fit in, but when you make assertions about the student body of which I was very recently a member I feel completely entitled to correct your perceptions and for the second time (though you are of course entitled to say it) you are wrong about the "collective identity"... I happen to know a surfing stoner that went to Exeter actually, but as you correctly pointed out... it means nothing about the rest of the student body.
On a slightly unrelated note, how can you claim to know anything about the school if you have only seen it during the summer... it's newport, of course there are going to be long haired surfers. St. George's is actually quite conservative seeing as we still have a dress code (and have twice weekly Episcopal chapel).</p>

40

<p>I agree that it's a conservative school. I noted that in another post.</p>

<p>And I do not mean to say that everyone is a surfer/sailor. Helllll no. But any institution by the sea is affected by the distinct sea culture. And SGS is inbetween the bay and the sea (and 4 large ponds) and i do believe it is affected by the nautical culture of the america's cup town.. nothing to be ashamed of! SGS sailors/surfers are the only surfers I have ever met that wear ribbon belts, btw.. not very rough and rowdy. The image you're painting concurs with the my painting, believe it or not. Let me put it in a more flattering way:</p>

<p>"SGS students enjoy the good life that Newport permits. Sailing in the Narragansett and possibly surfing on First Beach or Second Beach is not a hassle, for its location -- 100 ft. from the beach and only a short drive to the bay -- allows this, which is a distinct feature that virtually no other prep school possesses. The fact that the Itnl Tennis HoF sometimes conducts lessons on the grounds when the championships have overflowed the club down the street further verifies that the grounds -- and the location -- are superb. A great school indeed. Its small size of 200-some students can only accomodate so many wishes, and thus the course catalog, number of extracurriculars available, and geographic areas of representation is slimmer, fewer, and less than other large academies. But SGS -- a beautiful seaside school by the glorified town of Newport and cohesive community bonded by biweekly chapel -- offers something more than an endowment could ever buy, which is why so many love the school and choose to attend."</p>