Shooting at Univ. Alabama Huntsville (merged thread folds in Parents Cafe comments)

Parents Forum
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<p>^^^Dilbert is popular with the engineers whom I know, that is true.</p>

<p>I thought MIT was trying very hard to dispel its reputation as a hotbed of techno-nerds. Sounds like that may not be true. EDIT: except for Mollie of course. It is hard to imagine her doing the ‘scab thing’ related in the previous post.</p>

<p>FWIW, when my family met my son’s long-time girlfriend, who is both beautiful and charming, they were astounded that Mr. Computer Science was capable of finding such a girl. So I guess they think he is weird.</p>

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<p>Sometimes there are advantages to doing calculations on pads of paper in that you can follow the paper trail of your work should you get an unexpected answer. I keep a notebook on my desk with stuff that I do and I will often do calculations in the notebook that I can look at again if I need to refresh my memory about something.</p>

<p>In the old days, I worked in a group that had to read crash dumps frequently. We had to do a lot of hex arithmetic and there weren’t a lot of calculators around that did hex calculations. We used terminals in those days where you ran one thing at a time. There was no mouse or pointing device and everything was character cell so popping out to a calculator program or using the shell for arithmetic meant that you had to get out of your program and then back in again unless your editor had a built-in calculator.</p>

<p>The hygiene stuff? Yeah, that happens too.</p>

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<p>There’s nothing wrong with being a hotbed of techno-nerds. Most engineers that I know are proud of that label.</p>

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<p>Hey, as the mom of a math student, those I know are as sane as they come. They are not loners. In fact, ever since freshman year in college, S and his peers have been encouraged (and in at least once case <em>required</em>) to study in groups. The myth of the lone and weird scientist is just that.</p>

<p>So some computer scientists are weird. Does that mean all computer scientists are weird? I’ve met weird people from all walks of life and in all sorts of jobs. I do not think that scientists and Ph.D.s are any more weirder than other people. But more to the point, they are not any more likely to commit murder. Let’s back off stereotyping, shall we?</p>

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<p>Why does it bother anyone though?</p>

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<p>Unfortunately cold-blooded workplace shootings happen in the United States more often than anyone would like. One of the reasons the Alabama murders have received a lot of attention is that multiple violent murders committed by a female faculty member are virtually unheard of. It’s called “going postal,” not going academic. </p>

<p>If Bishop’s parents lied to get their daughter cleared in the shooting death of their son, they bear major responsibility for the tragedy in Alabama. Whether Bishop would have been rehabilitated and eventually released from prison following a conviction is irrelevant; with that on her record, many opportunities would have been denied her and she would not have been given as much benefit of the doubt with some of her behaviors.</p>

<p>Still, Amy Bishop had to know what the outcome would be of her murdering those people in the faculty meeting. As smart as she was, she had to know that “accidental gun discharge” was not going to work for this one, and even if she escaped the scene, she would have been the prime suspect and eventually caught. It’s not like she could have thought that murdering these people was going to change the tenure decision.</p>

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<p>If scientists are not any weirder than other people, why bother even pointing out the weirdness of some scientists and engineers? for the sake of anecdotal fun?
Has any one claimed that there is no weird scientist or Ph.D.? Of course not. So what have your posts been about then?</p>

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<p>*
Still, Amy Bishop had to know what the outcome would be of her murdering those people in the faculty meeting. As smart as she was, she had to know that “accidental gun discharge” was not going to work for this one, and even if she escaped the scene, she would have been the prime suspect and eventually caught. It’s not like she could have thought that murdering these people was going to change the tenure decision.*</p>

<p>I do believe that she will be found to be insane or something like that.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that after she did the shootings, she calmly called her H to pick her up and reminded him of their “date night” that evening. What sane person does that? Did she honestly think she would be able to just get in her H’s car and drive off to a night on the town?</p>

<p>(BTW…and I don’t know enough about this…but I find it odd that she shot people at such close range, yet she had no blood splatters on her clothes. Is that odd? Or maybe she had a white coat on and threw that away with the gun.)</p>

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<p>Sorry - 50 unread pages behind me, and our news in NC is typically several days old, but i am reading today that her students complained about her at least 3 times and sent a petition to the now dead department head. Those students must be having nightmares - what if she had blamed them for not getting tenure?</p>

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<p><a href=“BTW…and%20I%20don’t%20know%20enough%20about%20this…but%20I%20find%20it%20odd%20that%20she%20shot%20people%20at%20such%20close%20range,%20yet%20she%20had%20no%20blood%20splatters%20on%20her%20clothes.%20Is%20that%20odd?%20Or%20maybe%20she%20had%20a%20white%20coat%20on%20and%20threw%20that%20away%20with%20the%20gun.”>quote</a>

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<p>The shooting was in a room on the third floor and the gun was found in a second floor restroom. According to the gist of the article below, the blood splatter would have been on her hand(s) depending on how she held the gun. Seems Amy thought it through to go down one floor to a restroom, ditch the piece and probably wash her hands.</p>

<p>[Blood-Spatter</a> Patterns: Hands Hold Clues for the Forensic Re… : The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology](<a href=“Blood-Spatter Patterns: Hands Hold Clues for the Forensic Re... : The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology”>Blood-Spatter Patterns: Hands Hold Clues for the Forensic Re... : The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology)</p>

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<p>I think of anyone who commits murder (unless self defense) as disturbed. It simply is not normal behavior (who cares that she is a scientist, etc.?) Their way of thinking is extremely warped. Many people deal with major setbacks and don’t solve these through murder. Someone asked didn’t she think about getting caught or what would happen with her kids and so on and so forth. I don’t think those who commit these murders think in rational terms. That is another reason (of many) that I am against the death penalty and have never understood the argument of it being a deterrent as I don’t believe a murderer stops to think of the consequences of their behavior. Their thinking is not that of a mentally stable person. It is not rational. </p>

<p>Amy Bishop, in particular, has a history of what comes across as some form of mental disturbance. There is the killing of the brother which sounds like it may not have been accidental and surely her behavior after he was shot was not normal. Even IF it were truly accidental, it would affect someone for the rest of their lives. The assault over a booster seat is not a normal reaction. Many would grumble under their breath if they thought it was unfair, or at most have a verbal exchange. The idea of hitting another mother over this is not normal. Her screaming “I am Dr. Amy Bishop” comes across as mentally disturbed as if she cannot be wronged due to her superiority. Same with her reaction to the tenure decision. Who knows if she really sent that pipe bomb to the doctor at HMS with whom she had some dispute. Even her own writing of an unpublished novel could be analyzed for what it says about her way of thinking. </p>

<p>In any case, this story is ripe for a movie of the week. All the elements are quite the story. Unfortunately it is a horrible tragedy that affected many people and will forever.</p>

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<p>You’re correct. And that is why the local police invitation report did not contain any mention of an attempted car jacking or the gun play at the car dealership. The follow up State Police investigation was nothing more that a fact check of the local police incident report. And you can’t fact check something that is not there.</p>

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<p>If Bishop’s parents lied to get their daughter cleared in the shooting death of their son, they bear major responsibility for the tragedy in Alabama.</p>

<p>I completely agree…</p>

<p>This is no different than any other time that parents lie (provide fake alibis or whatever) as an attempt to keep their child out of jail. They are partly responsible for whatever future or greater crimes are later committed.</p>

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<p>I have been reading comments by “Zorean” on the sfgate blog. This person claims to have known Bishop for 25 years. She went to Northeastern, took many of the same classes as Amy, and graduated a year later. While Amy pursued her graduate and post-doctoral work at Harvard, Zorean worked in a medical facility nearby, so they saw each other regularly. Zorean recognized that Bishop felt lonely and made some effort to stay in touch with her. Zorean feels guilty right now; she feels if she had made more of an effort, Bishop would not have committed the murders.</p>

<p>According to Zorean, Bishop had no social skills what so ever. Bishop had no ability to converse about non-science matters. She could not read social cues or express emotions. Her face was blank all the time. Bishop had no friends in high school, college or graduate school(except her husband). People viewed her as an oddball and steered away from Bishop, ony deepening her sense of isolation. </p>

<p>Bishop once confided in Zorean about her extreme loneliness and her frustration that no one noticed or cared for her. To Bishop, science and the academic world was a salvation. She could connect with other human beings by talking science. When she did well in her research, people noticed her. In short the academic world was the only arena in which Bishop was able (in her own mind) to successfully connect with other humans.</p>

<p>Zorean mentions that Bishop did discuss the shooting of her brother but she does not say what Bishop said. But evidently Bishop did write a story about a scientist who accidently kills someone and atones for the deed by making great discoveries. Whether Bishop murdered her brother or accidently killed him, I speculate that she did feel guilty and perhaps felt that doing research which benefited humanity was a way to atone.</p>

<p>So if Bishop got tenure at UAH, she would never be lonely, she would be noticed and would be able to find a cure for some disease and make up for killing her brother. </p>

<p>I’m speculating that when Bishop found out (last spring?) that she wouldn’t get tenure, she spiraled quickly into depression and then rage. But she had no ability to communicate what was going on in her head; so I doubt that her husband had a clue. </p>

<p>I don’t think Bishop had any ability to manipulate or charm people. People were put off by her.</p>

<p>I don’t know whether Zorean is who she says she is but her comments make for some interesting reading.</p>

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<p>Is there any way for them to tell if he or the other person has brain damage? Or is that something they cannot tell until they are awake? Anyone here a doctor that would know the answer to this?</p>

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<p>This is what made me ask about Asperger’s several pages back.</p>

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<p>More from the story bluealien linked to about Seth Bishop’s friends:</p>

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<p>It makes me, like other people here, very upset to think that nobody even attempted to see that justice was done for the horrible death of this brilliant and apparently sweet young man – someone who, from the description, sounds very much like the children of so many of us here. Not that that makes his death worse than that of anyone else, but I can’t help it if I feel particularly sad about it.</p>

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<p>^^^^ I guess that settles it … the poor thing was lonely. It’s still first degree murder and life without parole. (Why is she getting cut more slack than Betty Broderick?)</p>

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<p>Is there any way for them to tell if he or the other person has brain damage? Or is that something they cannot tell until they are awake? Anyone here a doctor that would know the answer to this?</p>

<p>The bullet went up thru under his jaw, so imagine a line up towards an eye. Joe will likely lose an eye. His doctors said that no fragments went into his brain (a miracle), so brain damage is unlikely.</p>

<p>It appears that Joe was in his chair, ducking to get under the table, when shot - which would explain how the bullet entered from under his chin and went up. Imagine sitting in a chair and trying to quickly get under the table; your head would likely be tilted sideways as you were dropping down.</p>

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<p>I had a look at what an Insanity Defense is like and am amazed that the term is so vague. I would guess that premeditation would negate an insanity defense and it seems like there’s plenty of that. I think that her brain operates quite outside the norm but I don’t know how you would categorize her.</p>