<p>Of course this is no real comfort to those of you affected by this tragedy, but this story has led to a lot more recognition of UAH. Also, perhaps a somewhat better understanding by some provincials that real and important research is going on all over the country, including in the south and including at public institutions other than the few that have been anointed as public Ivies on CC.</p>
<p>My husband was in Huntsville for a conference of few months ago and was quite impressed with all of the research facilities. I’ll admit both of us were ignorant about Huntsville. He came back with a bunch of glossy literature provided by one of your state politicians.</p>
<p><a href=“CBS”>quote</a> Students said they signed a petition and complained to no avail about the classroom conduct of an Alabama professor accused of killing three colleagues and wounding three others in a shooting rampage at a faculty meeting. </p>
<p>The students upset with biology professor Amy Bishop told The Associated Press they went to administrators at the University of Alabama in Huntsville at least three times a year ago, complaining that she was ineffective in the classroom and had odd, unsettling ways. </p>
<p>The students said Bishop never made eye contact during conversations, taught by reading out of a textbook and made frequent references to Harvard University, her beloved alma mater. </p>
<p>“We could tell something was off, that she was not like other teachers,” said nursing student Caitlin Phillips.
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<p>As I understand it, it is “no biggie” to the college or university that has multiple petitions and/or complaints that a teacher has odd, unsettling ways, is “off” and is not like other teachers. Just (possibly) deny tenure a year later.</p>
<p>Well, in the “real” world of police work the operative environment involves illegal conduct and making decisions when and whether to do something about it. </p>
<p>I suggest none of us would like a world where no crime went unpunished.</p>
<p>If the police chief and/or captain had determined that with the sole eye-witness saying it was an accidental shooting (and remember that eye-witness was the dead boy’s MOTHER) and the shooter acting as if suffering post traumatic shock and disorientation, spending the taxpayer’s money to investigate and present the DA with evidence to press weapons charges against a 20 y.o. who had accidentially killed her brother wasn’t warranted–that was police discretion.</p>
<p>Someone mentioned Monday morning quarter-backing. Well, that doesn’t just apply to the conduct of UAH.</p>
<p>“f the police chief and/or captain had determined that with the sole eye-witness saying it was an accidental shooting (and remember that eye-witness was the dead boy’s MOTHER) and the shooter acting as if suffering post traumatic shock and disorientation, spending the taxpayer’s money to investigate and present the DA with evidence to press weapons charges against a 20 y.o. who had accidentially killed her brother wasn’t warranted–that was police discretion.”</p>
<p>However 2-3 other eyewitnesses also said that Amy Bishop had threatened them with her weapon. Those incidents needed to be investigated.</p>
<p>Of course this is no real comfort to those of you affected by this tragedy, but this story has led to a lot more recognition of UAH. Also, perhaps a somewhat better understanding by some provincials that real and important research is going on all over the country, including in the south and including at public institutions other than the few that have been anointed as public Ivies on CC.</p>
<p>My husband was in Huntsville for a conference of few months ago and was quite impressed with all of the research facilities. I’ll admit both of us were ignorant about Huntsville. He came back with a bunch of glossy literature provided by one of your state politicians.*</p>
<p>Oh, I totally understand. :)</p>
<p>My H had traveled here many times before we moved here. I was shocked when he told me we had a choice between moving to the Baltimore-area or Huntsville-area. My H assured me that I would like the Huntsville area. We flew to Maryland first…that was fine. But, when we visited here, it was a no-brainer. When my family first visited from Southern Cal, they were amazed, too. Nothing like they had imagined. </p>
<p>This tragedy has been horrific, but at a minimum, people are learning more about the area. So, even in tragedy, good things can come.</p>
<p>Not really. If the perception was that she had freaked-out from accidentially killing her brother, “investigating” the other stuff is a discretionary call. BTW–there really wasn’t anything to investigate. They knew exactly what happened in regard to those threatened by Amy after she ran from the house. The discretion comes into play concerning what to do about it. The decision was to do nothing about it. </p>
<p>If the UAH event had not occured, no one would be questioning the failure to investigate what Amy did immediately after “accidentially” killing Seth.</p>
<p>If the police chief and/or captain had determined that with the sole eye-witness saying it was an accidental shooting (and remember that eye-witness was the dead boy’s MOTHER) and the shooter acting as if suffering post traumatic shock and disorientation, spending the taxpayer’s money to investigate and present the DA with evidence to press weapons charges against a 20 y.o. who had accidentially killed her brother wasn’t warranted–that was police discretion.</p>
<p>I agree that IF AFTER a thorough investigation, it was believed that it was an accident, then the police would have had no choice but to rule as an accident.</p>
<p>But this is stinking like the Drew Peterson’s #3 ex-wife’s drowning in the dry bathtub story with bruises on her body. That was originally ruled an accident, too, because he was on the police force. Years later (after wife #4 went missing), the body of wife #3 was exhumed and ruled “homicide.” That incident wasn’t properly investigated either because of “inside connections.” It wasn’t until another tragedy, that public pressure forced a re-investigation.</p>
<p>“If the police chief and/or captain had determined that with the sole eye-witness saying it was an accidental shooting (and remember that eye-witness was the dead boy’s MOTHER) and the shooter acting as if suffering post traumatic shock and disorientation, spending the taxpayer’s money to investigate and present the DA with evidence to press weapons charges against a 20 y.o. who had accidentially killed her brother wasn’t warranted–that was police discretion.”</p>
<p>This should not be a police discretion, the prosecutorial decision belongs to the DA and the DA was not presented with the full account of the situation especially the events after Amy left the house. This evidence goes directly contrary to the assertion that this was an accidental shooting but Amy was released a few hours after she was arrested and the information is not relayed to the State police or the DA.</p>
<p>I don’t buy the tenure as tragedy angle. Plenty of CPA’s are told every year that they’re not being elected to the partnership. So they can stick around and try again (work their tails off, try to mitigate whatever issues came up during the review process) or they can drop down a tier and try again at a less prestigious firm, look for a corporate job, hang their own shingle, etc. Ditto for lawyers, consultants, anyone in a partnership.</p>
<p>The stigma of not being elected when you’ve been busting your butt for years, volunteering for committees, being a good soldier when it comes to recruiting or professional development, publishing, doing pro bono in the community etc… it really stings. And options aren’t always so plentiful, especially if you have a narrow specialty and have a working spouse.</p>
<p>It amazes me that I actually finished reading all 56 pages of this thread. It’s such a sad but fascinating saga. Did I miss the part about what her husband’s job is? I know he was involved in working on their invention, but it doesn’t seem that he has a real job. Also, I just assumed that he also has a Ph.D from somewhere…is that true?</p>
<p>ttparent–why is this not a place for police discretion as to the need for further investigation? I’ve read the reports that were found. The crime scene was worked immediately. They had the body and did the autopsy. They knew about the shot fired in the bedroom. They had the weapon and knew the identity of the person who fired the shot. The witnesses to the shooting (Amy and mom) were interviewed. They interviewed Amy’s dad. The reports reflect the statements made by the people who were confronted by Amy after the event.</p>
<p>What more was there to investigate about Seth’s death?</p>
<p>Also, what events where not made known to the DA? Do you have a link?</p>
<p>I suggest you use google and read the reports. They are dated. </p>
<p>I recall (but please verify) that an officer called to the scene the day of the shooting went into Amy’s bedroom and found some shells on the floor (I recall that the report gave the number of shells he found there) and saw the hole in the wall.</p>
<p>See…that’s what troubles me. If they knew about the “extra” shots that very day, there’s no justification for believing the mom’s story that it was an accident. Police officers understand that a shotgun cannot be accidentally fired more than one time.</p>
<p>To intentionally leave out of the report such details (crimes?) as to her behavior following the shooting is highly suspect. Even the retired Police Chief who initially defended the report has upon learning new (to him) details says he was not informed of them at the time, and now says a reopening of the investigation is warranted. </p>
<p>Discretion and looking the other way at an incident involving a violent death is anything but.</p>
<p>If you google “Mossberg 500” you will see that if Amy was uncertain how to unload the shotgun she could have chambered another round by mistake in trying to unload it after it discharged in her room. Accidentially pulling the trigger while bringing the barrel up from pointing at the floor to pointing at the ceiling is not far-fetched.</p>
<p>There has been some talk of a third shot into the kitchen ceiling per the 2010 statement of what one officer said he thought he recalled (the file was missing at that time), but his writen report (which is part of the file that was subsequently located) that he made on Dec. 6, 1986 does not mention a third shot. I do not see a third shot being mentioned in any of the reports made the day of the shooting or at any other time.</p>
<p>I gotta say that if someone accidentally kills or injures a family member, I would think the instinct would be to help and be concerned, and not to flee. I understand one may panic but if she knew it was accidental, would she assume she was in some sort of trouble? Wouldn’t she be very concerned for her brother and want to stay and seek help?</p>
<p>Also, is there some relevance to the fact that it was reported that the siblings were having an argument? It didn’t sound like Amy was simply learning gun skills but I thought I read that the siblings were having a fight. </p>
<p>It just seems like a lot of unanswered questions, including her aiming the gun at three people after the shooting, and hard to imagine the investigation being closed very very quickly based on simply the statements of those involved in this “incident.”</p>
<p>Amy Bishop was working as a professor with a research lab, trying to assemble a record that would earn her tenure. She had four children in the home. My guess is that her husband’s job was mostly child care. And I don’t have the slightest problem with that.</p>
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<p>As for the discussion about Seth’s death: Maybe I’m just a cautious person, fearful of handling guns if I know nothing about them, but if had just accidentally shot a hole in the ceiling because I had no idea what I was doing, I would drop that gun like a hot coal and wait until the gun owner (in this case, Amy’s father) got home and showed me what to do. I wouldn’t be walking around the house with the gun.</p>
<p>I appreciate that it probably is irritating to some to have a lot of amateurs speculating on police behavior, but this story is very fishy.</p>
<p>Different people would react in different ways. It may have seemed hopeless to her at the time and she may have just lost her mind.</p>
<p>Based on the facts I’ve read, nothing leads me to conclude definitely that it was not an accident. It would help to know what family argument ensued before it happened, though.</p>
<p>From the short story she wrote, it appears she has some measure of remorse. Otherwise, the heroine wouldn’t need to seek redemption by becoming a great scientist. Based on this, it is very surprising that she wasn’t completely paranoid about having guns anywhere around her.</p>