Interesting, Midwestmomofboys - I didn’t know the LSAC recalculated gpas! Thanks for that info and the heads up about sites re: merit awards.
An interesting thing to me about law is that you do have to sort of have an idea where you want to live/practice at the end of your education (where you take the bar). Although with remote offices these days I suppose you could work for a firm in VA and live in Montana for part of the year… !
prelawhelper - very interesting perspective - thanks!
My D18 is currently in the process. As others have mentioned admission and merit is basically all about grades and LSAT score. Admission is also boosted for individuals who go and work a few years before applying law schools. I believe that 20% of Harvard 1L is made up of individuals who worked for a few years before applying to law school.
Based on advice from some of the folks on this board @Publisher and @bluebayou one should apply broadly in order to maximize acceptances and merit. Other considerations are does your student know where they want to live after graduation, do they know what type of law they want to practice, do they want to work in “big law” or do they want to work for the government etc.
My daughter has a 4.0 and a 168 LSAT. She has applied to 13 schools I list them in order of USNEWS rankings. UVA, UMich (long shots for admission and no chance of money), UT, Vandy, BU (better admission chances but probably no money), UMinn (admitted with full tuition scholarship) GW, ASU (admitted with full tuition scholarship) Florida (admitted with full tuition scholarship) Georgia (admitted with full tuition scholarship) Wisconsin, Richmond and Villanova.
As @Midwestmomofboys noted there are some websites that contain good information on the various schools, applicants stats and merit awards. Lawschoolnumbers.com and Lawschooltransperency are two that I have found very informative.
Good luck to your daughter.
@burghdad My kid went through this recently – it all depends what a specific school needs to make it’s medians work so admissions can be unpredictable. However, that 4.0 plus an LSAT just 1-2 points below median at some T14s could lead to some strong results. I suspect she will definitely merit from BU and probably Vandy, though Vandy is a bit more stingy that some other T20s and does not negotiate merit at all. Did she apply to WUSTL? If not, she might consider an application as it’s known for generous merit to keep its medians high – its LSAT median is 168 but that gpa will more than make up for it.
Please, please don’t waste that 4.0. Take time off, prep hard for the LSAT, 6 hours a day if need be. Even 2-3 more points, i.e., 2-3 more correct questions, could mean thousands of additional tax-free money, even at a T14, which will open more doors.
b-dad: methinks you underestimate the power of that 4.0. I would have advised her to ask for fee waivers so that she could apply to additional, higher-ranked schools. Yes, the publics UVa and Mich are <50%, but some of the privates in the T14 would love to see that 4.0, and even offer some money. Heck, even NYU and Chicago would take a hard look at that 4.0, but might be sticker.
I can testify that upping the LSAT is definitely possible. Raised mine 10 points (few years in between & tons, and tons of alone-in-the-library LSAT prep with old tests).
And thanks for the insights, burghdad!
@Midwestmomofboys where did your son end up?
Oops, correcting my typo on WUSTL LSAT median - - it’s been 169 for a couple years, I think. But for an applicant who is one point under median with a 4.0, that’s a nice situation to be for acceptance at WUSTL. It places well in NYC and Chicago.
And I agree with @bluebayou, that 4.0 can open some doors!
Curious as to your source that WashUStL School of Law places well in NYC.
@Publisher – WUSTL outcomes/search for students we know, plus NALP/509. Without double checking the data, as I recall, about 15% of the class goes to NY, to reputable firms. I believe NY is the third biggest placement after St L area and Chicago.
Edited to add: to be more specific, of course, it’s not like some T14s where maybe 50+% of the class goes to NY and 80+% of the class is in biglaw. But from what we hear, the students who want to go to NY are able to do well with major firms.
correct on the NY placement (14%), but it is second after Missouri (26%); IL (10%) is third.
Approx 30% of WashU grads make it to Big Law, if that is a goal. Contrast that with say, Northwestern, several spots higher ranked ( and T14), which has 60+% going into Big Law. Of course, if BL is not your goal, it may not much matter, but it does give one a view of prestige in the industry and how it impacts initial jobs.
I believe – again, I did not double check my data – Wash U’s current NALP report shows “biglaw” of roughly 45% with about 15% federal clerkship rate. It is lower biglaw than Vandy.
My kid went through apps last year and had spreadsheets showing biglaw, primary markets, federal clerkships etc. for schools from T6 -T30, so he could balance career options with merit awards.
not a problem, midwest mom. We are just using different data sources.
My go-to is Law School Transparency, which also uses the ABA 509 reports, but cuts BL at 251+ attorneys, which puts WashU at 31%. However, if one makes the cut at 100+ attorneys, then 41% is the correct math. However, I would suggest that including the 100-250 attorneys group is too low for BL; per NALP, the median starting salary of that 100-250 group is only $115k – good money, sure – but a far cry from BL salary of $160-180k. IMO, the 100-250 attorney group is more like ‘middle law’. 
This is all very helpful.
Interesting definitions on # of attorneys which constitute the designation of “biglaw”.
The definition I use & see most frequently is law firms with a minimum of 500 attorneys.
P.S. Although the starting base salary for biglaw often varies by market, my understanding is that biglaw first year associates start at $190,000 base salary in major markets although some biglaw firms still start first years at $180,000, and it can be as low as $160,000 or $170,000 in smaller markets.
Short answer is “no.” If you’re asking the question, you’re not sure. Wait until you’re sure you want to be a practicing lawyer before investing the money, time, and opportunity cost. The market sucks for attorneys.
I agree, to my mind, “biglaw” would cover firms with minimum 500 lawyers. That was a point of tension between me and my law school applicant kid, because I kept recalculating “biglaw” rates for schools to only include 500+ lawyer firms using NALP data, whereas most of the rankings and lists include either 250+ lawyers or even 100+ lawyers. At the same time, personally, I wouldn’t exclude firms paying just under market rate from “biglaw.” Whether one is starting at $190 or $170, it’s almost certainly a major firm with good quality work and training.
all depends on where you draw the line, Publisher. No doubt that the traditional view of BL is 500+, but then a bunch of (lit) boutiques have emerged over the past years and they can be some of the biggest smaller (<500) firms, given the complex deals that come their way. So I have gravitated into agreement with TLS that 250 is a reasonable cutoff/compromise. The point being that someone landing a job in a 300+ person, multiple office firm making $160k can be an excellent outcome. And to me, LS is all about jobs, jobs, jobs.
Wow you all have your data really down. Midwestmom so impressed by your son & his spreadsheets! Does he know the kind of law he wants to practice? That seems like a big factor in school choice (although so many variables can change).
Trying to decide to go to law school or not in Florida. Are there flexible schedules for any state schools in Florida?