Should I praise my child more?

Parents Forum
1

I hope it’s ok to start this thread as a general one and not in the HS class of 2020, since I’m looking for a wider perspective.

As can be inferred from the previous sentence, my daughter is finishing middle school, entering high school in the fall. She’s our first-born (so no experience with older siblings), was extremely smart since childhood (I taught her to read in our native language when she was 3, and it was her accomplishment, not mine, since I wasn’t able to repeat the same with my son 8 years later), skipped a grade in the middle of 2nd grade, and is very mature for her 12 years. I should also add that her hormonal levels are off the chart (we checked because she is abnormally tall), so she tends to say things in the heat of the moment and I can’t always tell if she truly means/feels them or is just upset and her emotions take the better of her.

Last night she told me that a few years ago I stopped praising her and that she feels nothing she does anymore makes me proud. Her particular example - she took SAT as part of college search and got 670 on her math. I told her it’s not bad but she could have done much better if she studied for it (she didn’t want to prepare for it and I didn’t push her at all). Apparently kids at her school were sharing their scores, and she heard a lot of congratulations, that it was a good score, and (according to her) felt terrible that strangers applauded her but her own mother didn’t even say “good job”.

In my reply, I quoted the movie ‘Whiplash’ - there are no two words in the English language more harmful than ‘good job’ - and explained why a part of me agrees with the quote, and how I think it’s important to praise the effort rather than the accomplishment if that accomplishment came effortlessly to her. I reminded her how she quit the swim team when things got tough (there were medical reasons as well, but I focused on her lack of desire to work hard), and how her dad and I were proud not of her making it to the Junior Olympics, but of her extra effort she put in to get there. I also said I know middle school is easy for her, and yes, we don’t see anything extraordinary in her making all A’s. And that I am disappointed to see she is not putting much effort into anything - i.e. taking tennis classes, but never volunteering to play outside of class hours, she is no longer reading ferociously like she used to, just listening to music and chatting with her friends most of the time, and yes, I just don’t see many reasons to praise her as much as we used to when she was little (and as much as we praise her younger brother now).

Was I wrong to say all this? And is my position wrong? I would truly like to hear your opinions, especially if they are different from mine. Especially after visiting endocrinologist, we’ve been cutting her tremendous slack across all areas, knowing she is under pressure from her hormones enough. A part of me feels she’s been drifting through life listlessly and effortlessly in the last few years. Yes, I remind myself she is just a kid, but I wish she had a passion (or at least extra effort) for something, and I am not talking about college admissions. In a way, I think of a praise as a trophy awarded only when deserved (in her case, effort put into something), but maybe it’s all wrong and she won’t put in any effort if I won’t start praising her more?

2

There is now information that, especially unearned, praise can be a disincentive (so let’s say an enthusiastic good bye to the misguided “self esteem movement”). But I am not sure that is really the issue here. The issue is probably putting undue focus on the importance of grades and achievements and then not conveying a sense of unconditional positive regard towards your daughter. That is what she is probably trying to tell you. The idea of not praising as a positive does not stand alone;In the sense that praising or not praising is neither good nor bad-in and of itself. It is praise in the face of over-valuing achievement that leads to the praise being a dis-incentive. And the most harmful is probably the over-valuing of achievement. Kids are not their achievement. The goal is that education will help enhance their lives. The more they can learn, the better the hope is that they are equipped with important skills. That prospect does and should makes parents happy. But that is not about grades.

3

It’s not all about academics and achievements. Find ways to praise her for all the things she does right - when she is helpful, kind, a good big sister, independent, etc. If she’s asking for it, she obviously thinks that she is disappointing you.

“In my reply, I quoted the movie ‘Whiplash’ - there are no two words in the English language more harmful than ‘good job’” I don’t think Whiplash should be used as a reference point for parenting tips. Consider the price paid and what you want in your child as they develop into an adult. Someone who has an incredible ability in one specific area or someone who is emotionally grounded and happy? I’d take the latter.

4

I’m 25, a PhD student, and still love praise from my parents.

It’s good to praise effort, but for those of us who have many things that come easily, we still like the praise for our accomplishments… even if they were easy for us.

She sounds like she is becoming a young teenager. It’s OK for her to read less and connect more with peers. I fell out of reading for many years while I was a teenager and picked it back up in college. I now read several books every week and have no regrets about choosing to be more social than bookish in high school.

JMO as someone who is NOT a parent.

5

So much is lost in just a single post form one anonymous person to dozens of others, but it sounds like you’re sending your D the message that NOTHING she does is good enough-or EVER will be good enough. A 670 on a HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL test in middle school is actually quite good but you only pointed out “not good enough”. She quit a sport in part for medical reasons, but you feel compelled to point out just the quitting part, as if having a medical condition doesn’t count. What, should she have continued despite illness or injury? And all A’s aren’t enough. What IS good enough A+++? In your mind, and the message you’ve chosen to send her, is that she’s not good enough, she the person, does not measure up, that you have no reason, none, to praise her-ever. It’s kind of heart-breaking, really. It makes me want to go hug her. It must be so painful for her, knowing that nothing she does makes you proud right now.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, seeing that you’re on a COLLEGE forum talking about your MIDDLE SCHOOLER not having “passion” or trying hard enough when she’s already at the top of her class and has qualified for gifted programs.

Just so you know, at 12, sitting and listening to music and daydreaming sometimes, talking to their friends is NORMAL. It’s how kids think about the big picture, parse out what they want to do, who they want to be, where they want to go. It’s a shame you see that as a failure.

For the love of all that is holy LIGHTEN UP. Let your KID be a KID, and when she achieves something, compliment her instead of pointing out all the ways she’s failed. It sounds like you have an extraordinary child. Love her for who she is and recognize that you’re very lucky instead of beating her over the head with claims of failure. If I, a total stranger, feel like crying upon reading how you treat her, I can only imagine how your own daughter must feel.

6

Your middle-school daughter scored a 670 on the math SAT and you told her she could’ve done better if she studied harder? Yeah, I think that’s a little harsh. There’s seniors applying to UCLA with lower scores over on the chance me threads.

Also a little harsh. She’s what, about 12-13 years old? I think that’s a little early to be cutting off praise for everything less than extraordinary effort. Even if she cruised to straight A’s, it’s still a worthy accomplishment compared to her peers.

The “praise” issue might also be a red herring. Is it possible she feels that you’re not giving her enough of your focused time and attention outside of academics and school-related stuff? Do you guys hang out together and do family activities or mother-daughter activities that she’s interested in?

One last comment - academics may seem like a hugely important thing to you right now. At some point in the future you might look back on today and wish you had focused more on how happy and well-adjusted she is, and that she actually has friends that she enjoys chatting with. Confident kids with high social-IQ and strong friendships are ultimately going to be more successful (and make you happier as a parent) than socially stunted, unhappy, anxious kids with stellar academic achievements. If I was a parent I’d think it was a fantastic sign that my child was confident enough to come tell me she was unhappy that I wasn’t praising her enough. Actually, that would be something I would praise her for all by itself, whether or not I agreed with her.

7

Buckle your seatbelt, you’re in for a crazy ride! If she is just gearing up teenager-wise, you have a lot of other new behavior to look forward to :slight_smile:

I agree with what @lostaccount is trying to say. I think it’s probably better to dial back on how much you “think” she should be doing (reading, playing tennis, etc) Listening to music and chatting with friends sounds like she is getting a 100% in Being a Teenager.

I applaud you for your stance on praising effort instead of results. Nothing worse than hearing “You got a 95? Where are the other 5 points?” But I also think there is nothing wrong with saying, “wow, you got a 670 without studying! That is a great score for a 12 year old!”

I think one thing we parents do is expect our kids to live the life we think they should BASED ON OUR 30+ YEARS OF EXPERIENCE. Sure, you have the benefit of being an experienced adult and so you know intuitively that she could be volunteering to teach tennis or that reading more might up her SAT verbal score. But you have to love the kid on the couch (to quote CC). She will have time to develop these things. I think you should cut her a little slack.

8

@doschicos, well, to be honest, she hasn’t been all that helpful or kind in the last few years, especially compared to our toddler. I keep telling her it worries me more that she is rude to her grandparents (and won’t even talk to them when they are sick) and to her brother than her lack of progress at tennis or missed homework at school. A couple of years ago she decided that she won’t do any chores at the house and we let it slide (another long story). My husband makes her clean her room, but every time it happens you’d think he is going at her with a belt, so many tears and projected suffering. She might be a talented actress or I am a total wuss, but every time it happens - she is asked once, twice, three times, ten times, to clean her room, she doesn’t, then her dad comes in to clean it for her, and she comes crying to me to “protect her and get him out of her room”. So yes, she is a drama queen most of the time, and sometimes she feels like a totally different person from the sweet kid I had up to two years ago. Academics has been the easiest thing - I don’t bother her at all, she gets all A’s, rarely studies and I think it is all easy for her, but yes, I think I may be taking her A’s for granted. I do praise her every time she volunteers to read to her little brother, but it happens too rarely :frowning:

I referenced Whiplash only as a source of a quote - frankly. I selfishly don’t want her to be exceptional in something, as it often times comes at a price of something else - i.e., some swimmers who practice 5-6 hours a day have little time for anything else beyond practices and school, including spending time with the family. I just wish her to be interested in something - even computer games.

9

A long ago, I read a book with a title something like “How to Raise Your Type A Child.” The author’s point was essentially that parents tend to withhold praise from the Type A child and when it is given, it is given for what they ARE rather than what they do.

Thus these kids internalize that what matters is their aptitudes and qualities rather than their achievements. So, they are told they are smart or pretty or athletic or musical, etc. instead of being praised for what they achieve. We constantly raise the bar because we think they are capable of so much more. That messes kids up because they think the “good” thing about themselves–the praiseworthy thing–is these innate qualities, not what they do.

I knew when I read it that I did exactly that and I made a concerted effort to change. One thing involved music lessons. Now, I have a kid who is above average in musical ability, but not great. So, she had to work on it. When she did learn a piece and actually did the practicing, I praised her. I also praised achievements even when they came easily–but I praised the achievement, not the aptitude.

I started applying the same principle to her friends. Our 6th grade puts on a play, usually a musical. It’s a lot of work. One of my daughter’s friends had a big part, but not the lead. She’s very musically talented. When the kids performed she was AMAZING. Now, I’m sure that learning the part was easier for her than for many other kids. However, she put in the work. I KNEW she was disappointed because she didn’t get the lead. So, that night, I heaped on the praise. However, I did NOT say, “WOW, you have a beautiful voice!” I said something like “Great Job! You remembered every word perfectly. You sang every note perfectly! You did an AMAZING job!” She lit up like a Christmas tree.

And immediately…another mother interrupted and said “All the children did a great job.” It was as if she thought I had done something horrible by praising one of the performers, by letting her know her performance was special. I knew I was right. This kid NEEDED the praise. She had swallowed her disappointment about not getting the lead and had worked to learn the part she got…though she didn’t have to work as hard as most kids would have had to work to learn her part. I praised her work.

I don’t consider an SAT score an “accomplishment.” Raising your score after weeks of studying would be.

But…“good job” are words every child needs to hear if (s)he is going to work at achieving anything.

Just my two cents.

10

You don’t want her to be exceptional but yiu think that at 12 she should be scoring above 670 on the SAT? Bit of a conflict there.

Personally, I think there’s more value in having kids do other chores than in making them clean their room. Their room is their space; I tend to shut the door and let it be. But there is value in them learning to chip in and help with things that benefit everyone, IMO. My kids never really had regularly scheduled chores unless you count their laundry. But we would ask them to do the dishes, take out trash, that kind of thing, on occasion. And if they’d refused, that would have bothered me much more than their rooms being mess.

11

@surfcity, for us teenage years started at 10 and yes, it’s been a difficult ride, exacerbated by the fact that we truly lucked out when she was little and thus were unprepared to challenges of parenting a teenager without going through terrible two’s, etc.

@anomander I don’t think many will believe me when I say I am not focused on academics - it’s similar of rich people not thinking about money because they have plenty. Things have been very easy for her so far, though I wonder if she’ll get a crude awakening once she gets to high school - or it may be just as easy for her, I don’tr know.

Sports - I always saw it as a health benefit rather than an achievement benefit and made more emphasis on making it to every practice rather than milestones. And yes, it was easy to say “I’m so proud you went to practice today, I know it was no fun swimming in the rain”. Btw, she doesn’t know I agreed to quitting the swim team because the doctor was concerned she is putting too much pressure on her shoulders. As far as my daughter knows/believes, she quit because she was bored with swimming (personally, I think things got tough with a new coach), so we said we’ll try something else. I am not sure she likes tennis, she tries to get out of practice every time she can, but says she doesn’t want to try any other sport, either, and at least tennis gives her some exercise.

I thank her for being nice to someone (not very often lately), for helping me out (even rarer, typically I hear some excuse or snark - why can’t you do it yourself), but something stops me from praising such behavior as super achievement - shouldn’t it be the norm?

We do spend more time as a group of 4 - parents and 2 kids rather than 1-on-1. I hate shopping, and my mom loves an opportunity to spend time shopping with her granddaughter, and I still haven’t found any activity the two of us can do. I have only one working hand and I learned long ago that’s a big source of embarrassment for my daughter, so she doesn’t like going out with me. I’d like to believe that I do not resent her resentment and simply happy for her that she is healthy and gifted and loves her dad (whenever he doesn’t make her clean her room). I also don’t cook, knit, have no ear for music and a totally different taste in literature and arts. And yes, I’d love for her to develop any hobby that may not involve me.

12

@jonri, thank you, this supports my theory of praising the effort rather than aptitude, so with SAT, since she didn’t want to study for it, I felt praise would sound like “wow, you are so smart, you got 670 without studying”. But again, I was probably wrong in not saying good job. Talked to my husband just now - he reminded me that I praised her for sitting through the exam after she took it. His opinion is that I praise her plenty but neither she nor I notice it much. I just don’t know. I’ll get a chance to spend 2 hours in a car with her tonight, not sure if I should bring up the conversation again or not…

13

We all make mistakes like that!
When my daughter got 2370 in SAT, out of my ignorance, I lashed at her why she did not get the perfect score (as she used to get at everything). But soon I found out how foolish I was!

14

Haven’t read all these posts, but whoa! your 12 year old got a 670 and you think she could have tried harder? Please mom, cut her some slack, she is a child, as in not even a teen. And furthermore, in our district where I can easily count at least 20 kids going to Top colleges (Harvard, MIT, Brown, Columbia, Vandy, Tufts, Cornell, USC, U Penn, etc), I truly don’t think a single one of them took the SAT in middle school. And your child is in a middle school where more than one kid is comparing SAT scores? I think I can guess where you live, and I say sincerely, please move now and give your kid a chance to be a kid. WAY TOO MUCH PRESSURE!

15

I’m not sure cleaning the room is a hill to die on. For our D, we essentially asked her bring her dirty clothes to the laundry room on laundry day, then take them back. Cups and dishes need to come back to the kitchen. Other than that, we let most everything else go.

If D wants to toss her clothes on the floor and let them get wrinkled and stinky, that’s up to her. If one day she has no clean folded clothes to wear to school, well that’s a learning experience that’s going to work a hundred times better than telling her to clean her room.

I’m so sorry to hear your D is embarrassed by your non-working hand. That must be tremendously hurtful and disappointing for you. She’ll come around eventually, but that’s probably not much comfort to you right now.

16

@uclaparent9, I personally was very happy with 670 - I think a high score on that SAT might have given her a false sense of security that she knows it all and doesn’t need to study for “the real one” in high school. And I’d like to believe I would have praised her if she’d like a lower score while studying for it. She is very capable, but I don’t know how to get across her that without strong work ethics, no capability or even talent can achieve much. I am sure your daughter studied hard for that 2370 - my warmest congratulations to you and your daughter!

17

One tip that might help you is that I noticed I was thinking a lot of things in my head about how great my daughter was in this or that aspect, but wasn’t verbalizing those thoughts to her. Then later I would be shocked when she would be sad about something or underwhelmed about some accomplishment that I thought very differently about. Like for example she got “superior” rating at all-State solo and ensemble her sophomore year, and I was thinking to myself “man that’s wonderful her hard work has paid off–she’s done so well, blah blah blah…” and I was extremely happy with her accomplishment. I congratulated her, but just briefly-- certainly didn’t say all those things about how her hard work has paid off etc. A few days later I found out that she didn’t put any weight of importance on the accomplishment at all, because the judge gave her perfect score and only had good things to say, and she felt like the judge’s standards must’ve been pretty low. Talk about a bass-ackwards way to think about it!!!

I just encourage you to talk and say the positive things that come to your mind… Or even text her if she’s busy on her phone :slight_smile:

18

Praise the effort, not the results.

@typiCAmom, I assume you you were hoping for 700+ on the math section prior to age 13 to qualify for Johns Hopkins CTY in general and SET in particular? Both my kids took the SAT early as well for that reason. What we did was go out to celebrate the night they took the SAT, not the day we received the good news about their results. On the day of results all they got was something like “It’s great when effort pays off, isn’t it.”

19

She’s at the top of the grading scale and can’t score any higher. What’s it going to take to please you? A Nobel Prize by age 14?

It won’t kill you to pat her in the back, smile and simply say, “well done!”

20

I don’t think people are reading what the OP is saying. I’m sure if her daughter studied a lot and scored a 450, she would be very happy. Her daughter scored a 670 because she is smart, not because she worked hard, as far as I understand.

I am not a parent and have no experience raising children, but I think what you are going through with your daughter is very normal. Teenagers can be a pain.