<p>Labels are for clothes, not for people.</p>
<p>Should the SEC be abolished? The ACC? Big 10? Your question is silly. Ivy is just a way to organize similar colleges. They play by the same rules, etc.</p>
<p>The Ivy League is the term used to describe the athletic conference of the eight schools within it. It carries connotations of excellent education because it is excellent education. Whether or not people think the Ivy’s are overrated or are unnecessarily sought-after, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc… carry those connotations. It’s an impressive feat if you can say you went to one of these schools (especially HYP and especially Harvard in that group).</p>
<p>and Lucky Parent’s argument is a good point. “Should the SEC be abolished? The ACC? Big 10?.. They play by the same rules, etc.”</p>
<p>Ivy League colleges have great football traditions, and Harvard, Yale, and Penn have really substantial stadiums to fill. You want them to have to play real football teams every week, have 2-7 seasons year after year? No way! Keep the Ivy League!</p>
<p>What does that even mean?</p>
<p>Are you saying those schools should be made less selective to reduce the perception of their selectivity? </p>
<p>It’s a scholastic conference, that’s all.</p>
<p>Williams and Mary is an awesome (and old) school. So is Rutgers…They aren’t Ivy league though.</p>
<p>Labels are for anything that can take an adjective as a modifier, i.e. ALL nominals.</p>
<p>Yeah, right.</p>
<p>Should it be? Maybe, its debatable.</p>
<p>Will it be? Never. They would never give up that label.</p>
<p>I think the OP’s point is that being in Ivy League gives unnecessary advantage to University like Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, and U Penn. These are not essentially any better than Duke, JHU, Northwestern, U Chicago, and Rice.</p>
<p>Stanford, MIT, Caltech were able to standout above those Universities to come at par with Harvard, Yale, Princeton but the rest are unable to overcome the Ivy label.</p>
<p>“I think the OP’s point is that being in Ivy League gives unnecessary advantage to University like Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, and U Penn.”</p>
<p>“Advantage” in whose eyes? The types of people who arbitrarily assign higher prestige to the Ivy label versus understanding that there are a whole host of top schools that offer excellent educations? That’s their problem if they are that naive and easily swayed.</p>
<p>ParentofIvyHope, if the Ivy League gives an unnecessary advantage to Brown, Cornell, etc., and you think that some of the schools in the Ivy League are not deserving of the Ivy brand name, then why is it that you are ParentofIvyHope? Shouldn’t you be ParentofTopSchoolHope and not be singling out the Ivies?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: I don’t think you realize that the practical world is different from a theoretical one.</p>
<p>In theory one should buy the best material, most functional handbag but while shopping for a hand bag; as present for my wife on our marriage anniversary; I came across a brand Hermes (Paris). The minimum bi-material Tote bag was priced $1500, while I could easily have bought a Louis Vuitton leather signature collection for that price but the Hermes name put the not so attractive bag up with that of full leather upscale brand Louis Vuitton bag. </p>
<p>The brand name has the power to transform a mediocre thing as a thing to cherish. So don’t underestimate the power of brand and don’t tag people na</p>
<p>Are you serious? Someone should be happy with a handbag they consider unattractive, or doesn’t otherwise fit their needs, because it has a status-y brand name? What a status-chaser! The sad thing is, you don’t even realize that there is little status in being a status-chaser. Sophisticated people realize the importance of fit and the presence of many, many good schools beyond the Ivies; naive ones think Ivy-or-bust.</p>
<p>It is not the question of Ivy-or-bust but the point was there is a value in the brand that is irreputable. I’m also of the opinion that you should buy a brand that justify its value same as HYPC.</p>
<p>Even if the name Ivy were abolished, people would still be well aware that schools are top tier. It would accomplish nothing.</p>
<p>Here’s the difference, ParentofIvyHope.</p>
<p>Let’s make it shopping for watches.
It’s the <em>average</em> person, who, if asked to name a luxury watch, says “Rolex.” They aren’t sophisticated, and all they know is what they’ve heard, and so they parrot that Rolex must be the be-all-and-end-all of watches.</p>
<p>It’s the <em>sophisticated</em> person, who, if asked to name a luxury watch, says “Rolex is very nice, but there is also Breguet, Jaeger LeCoultre, Chaumet, Chopard, Lange & Sohne. All of these are nice options for someone wanting a nice watch and here are the pros and cons of each. Oh - and the nicest isn’t necessarily the most expensive, either.”</p>
<p>Similarly, it’s the <em>average</em> person, who, if asked to name the best colleges, says, “Ivy League.” It’s the <em>sophisticated</em> person who says, “The Ivies are certainly excellent, but there is also Swarthmore, Haverford, Grinnell, Reed, Bryn Mawr, St. John’s … all of these are nice options for someone wanting a good education, and it’s not just Ivy at the top.” </p>
<p>It’s funny, because the people who are Ivy-chasers really want to portray themselves as sophisticated, but it is the antithesis of being sophisticated to think that the only good educations come at a handful of schools. Be a little more niche and boutique and not so average in your choices.</p>
<p>^ Eloquently said.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: Unfortunately, the world is full of “average” people (hence the term) who look up to labels much like the Ivy-league one. To some extent, it’s even subconscious (just like we unknowably link quality and large numbers). Although you could ‘beat the crowd’ as you say and get a sound education in a less-reputed school, things will certainly fare differently when you’re looking for a job (to some extent at least - and there are studies to prove this) and you’ve graduated from a college that rings a bell, is of known prestige and maybe even plucks at a heart string.</p>
<p>“Although you could ‘beat the crowd’ as you say and get a sound education in a less-reputed school, things will certainly fare differently when you’re looking for a job (to some extent at least - and there are studies to prove this) and you’ve graduated from a college that rings a bell, is of known prestige and maybe even plucks at a heart string.”</p>
<p>And once again, everyone acts as though there is this lofty world of “employers” who are all in awe of HYP, tolerate the lower Ivies, and are unimpressed by state schools. There are a <em>handful</em> of industries where it makes a difference, e.g., mgt consulting, investmt banking, in which having certain names is a prerequisite. There seems to be this complete ignorance on CC that many people who are employers are just hard-working and successful people who maybe attended a state flagship themselves, and just aren’t drooling over HYP the way CC’ers think they are. Did you know that there are employers in every town in the United States?? And really successful people who are in a position to hire others, who aren’t Ivy grads?</p>
<p>IndiaRubber - your argument seems to be therefore “buy the Rolex, it’ll impress the most people.” Blech.</p>
<p>And IndiaRubber, the unsophisticated person who hears HYP and is impressed isn’t necessarily LOOKING to hire HYP people. They may be more trusting of just-regular-folks who attended the state school.</p>
<p>You honestly believe that Dartmouth, Cornell, Penn and Columbia are at a level far lower than HYP? You must be insane! These are some of the finest universities in the country, and so are the NESCAC schools, Stanford, JHU and others. But the unnecessary advantage you speak of is a misnomer. They get that advantage because they are some of the BEST schools in the country and the world. There are others, but IVY doesn’t give unnecessary advantage. In fact, a recent study showed that 20 years out, Dartmouth grads were making the most money of any college graduate.</p>