<p>My friend and I are currently engaged in a heated debate on whether ivy leagues really are that great....
I'm of course pro-ivy league...
i don't get her at all!
Well anyhow she sent me a message that basically undermines what i would call the heavenly "ivy league" experience....
so please check my reply to her...(oh and the bush references are b.c she wrote about bush being an idiot who got accepted into yale...)</p>
<p>Undergraduate and graduate schools come with an intimidating price tag but are the benefits are worth it? pshhh YEA! The jobs you are ultimately offered, the social group you're with for LIFE are mainly dependent on the schools you graduated from. You don't see garbage collector associating with Wall Street Guy. Why? One came from Columbia, Harvard, Princeton, or some other top school, and one simply didn't make it. When you grow up, its all about the tag you wear. And guess what the tag says on it? The school you went to.</p>
<p>Yes, certainly, there are some undeserving fools that get in and taint the names of prestigious schools, but Bush isn't the only idiot representation of the ivy league population...(am I getting serious????? <em>gasp</em>).
Most of the students are the pick of the crop. They are well rounded individuals who are the products of hard work. Bush got the money going for him, but almost every other student got their extracurriculars and passion for learning going for themselves! And it's not Bush's fault he was so damn rich. I mean, are you going to call someone stupid and undeserving of the ivy-league experience because he's rich??! (okay...maybe I would...)</p>
<p>And after all this perhaps you have this smirk and laugh inside thinking "ha! she doesn't know about Oprah Winfrey, Chris Gardner, Bill Gates and all those self made millionaires." But they are what? .01% of the population? These people are the exceptional cases, and I'm sorry to dishearten you, but most of us are....let me say....unexceptional? (okay maybe for CCers this doesn't apply but whatever right?)</p>
<p>I'm one of the people who think Ivies get too much credit.</p>
<p>Now I wouldn't say I hate them, I just don't understand the whole mentality of "OMG IF I DON'T GET INTO HYPS I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF". There are tons of less-than-ivies that give just as good, if not better (<em>GASP</em>) educations for way cheaper.</p>
<p>AND, there are even some majors/fields where being from a school other than an Ivy will really help you (ie Theatre...Very few people who really make it big in theatre ((and I'm talking about Broadway, not George Clooney types)) went to strictly Performing Arts schools and never even though about going to Ivies).</p>
<p>ivy league is a name. great schools, yes, but not the only great schools. </p>
<p>Garbage collecting does not mean that you 'didn't make it'. my father did janitorial work and garbage collecting (he was also a busboy and a cashier) for over 3 years when he first immigrated here from China. He worked full time and got his PhD at the same time (not from a flashy school; from SUNY Buffalo). He works in NYC at a stable, decent-paying job. He's friends with people on Wall Street; people who started out in the same position as he did. No one cares what school you went to after your first job or two. It's your experience that matters in the real world. </p>
<p>I'm not saying that the Ivy League is at all bad--they rightfully do deserve their titles as some of the best schools in the country (and the world). But the hype these days makes these schools so bright that they leave so many other worthy institutions in the dark. </p>
<p>What percentage of people go to Ivy League schools? .01%?</p>
<p>I DO think that several of them have become "names," as enderkin said. There's a definite discrepancy between the fabled experience at those schools and the one that students actually receive. I know from students and teachers that the quality of teaching is not comparable to that of many other schools, and that there is significant grade inflation.</p>
<p>Many people are now paying for a name, and the prestige that goes along with it, rather than the best possible education for them, and the prestige that goes along with that.</p>
<p>My own experience with a certain Ivy League school:
My parents had been pressuring me to apply to X University for awhile. I told them that I didn't like it, for the reasons that I listed above. They didn't believe me, and blamed my distaste for the school on a fear of rejection. So, they tricked me into touring XU with them. Lo and behold, upon attending the info session and taking the tour, my parents realized that I was right. XU seemed pretentious, unconcerned with the student, fake, and generally unappealing.</p>
<p>I don't hate Ivy Leagues, but I'm probably the side that is sorta critical of their value. The Ivy Leagues are great because of the high caliber students they attract, and are kept going because of the excellent work done by graduates and money donated by alumni. Sure, there's the "tag" of an Ivy League school, with its connections and prestige, but its basically the individual that made it out on his/her own. </p>
<p>Also, the number of people that have become successful after NOT attending an Ivy League school is not simply limited to Oprah Winfrey or Bill Gates. The majority of scientists, academia, and researchers distinguished in their respective fields today are not Ivy League graduates. </p>
<p>The reason I myself is attracted to top Ivy League schools is actually because of the "intimidating price tag". They have financial aid offers to low income households that are really second to none. If I get accepted to one of the HYPS schools, I'll end up paying less than I'd have to pay for my state school education.</p>
<p>You don't go to Ivies for the education--you can get that at any of the top colleges (LACs are actually probably better for it). You go for the connections. Yeah, Bush is pretty dumb, but you could be in a potentially powerful situation if your former college buddy is the President of the United States.</p>
<p>I just hate the fact that people think that top schools can only be Ivy League universities. It is pretty narrow-minded. </p>
<p>Oh by the way, Bill Gates was accepted to and attended an Ivy League school for many years before 'dropping out', not due to academic problems, but to pursue his own career. He was known to have the brains to be successful and for the whole Bush thing, legacies will always have some sort of advantage, but would he have gotten into Yale today? His chances would be less likely today than in 1960-something. This would be the same for most people who applied to college in the 1960's.</p>
<p>Using the criteria most people use to decide if they 'love' or 'hate Ivies, I hate most of the Ivies except two of them. I love one and am indifferent to another, but dislike 6. :p! jk of course, I personally think all Ivy League and non Ivy League schools are awesome! Except if you are Carolina and that's only because you are going to get beaten in bball so badly this year, :D</p>
<p>People who 'hate' Ivy league schools as a whole are complete MORONS.</p>
<p>People have to recognize that ivy leagues aren't just for the names - if it was just for the names and had a **** undergraduate experience, then no one would go there, and we'd never hear about the Ivy League again. The reason the Ivy League is so sought after is because it offers a college experience rivaled by 'few' others, in terms of the attention devoted to the students, the academic experience, and the people one meets there (Being at Princeton with several thousand truly amazing and exceptional people does something to you in life). </p>
<p>While people may 'dislike' ivies, I'd have to say people are complete idiots if they 'hate' ivies. There is no grounds to hate any institution that offers such a devoted care to their students and their student's futures.</p>
<p>Here are some of my comments. I'm too lazy to form a coherent post.</p>
<p>You never stated how the price of an Ivy League school is justified over a top public school. Some of the best schools in the nation are public and they are actually affordable.</p>
<p>No one cares about where you went to college once you have a career. Its all about how you perform in real life not some sheltered high school taking SAT prep classes.</p>
<p>What do you say about all of the extremely successful people that come out of "lesser" colleges and the mediocre students coming out of ivies? Even if you were to say that more successful people come out of ivies than other colleges (which I don't know if its true), there is a selection bias. Ivies pick people from the top of their high school class so obviously those students are already determined to get into Wall Street, become a doctor/lawyer, other "successful" professions. It is not proof that Ivies are in fact any better at teaching their students than any other schools (that's what you go to college for right? to learn?)</p>
<p>The one clear advantage of coming from an Ivy league school is that you probably know people, in business or whatever. I don't think that its actually too much of an advantage to a lot of students, students in the sciences and humanities for the most part. If you want to get into grad school, it really doesn't matter too much which school you went to as long as you got good grades.</p>
<p>BTW ever think that maybe the Wall Street guy is just a jerk?</p>
<p>The entry level salary of Ivy graduates in some majors are not that much higher compared to top public school graduates (but their tuitions are very different)</p>
<p>You may not get my reply to your post about why people hate Ivy League graduates, but someone else will read this. One of my siblings has a doctorate from Harvard. I decided three days ago never to speak to him again. It’s been coming on for decades, and it’s all been said about the entitlement Ivy League graduates feel in regards to employment, but here’s the perspective of a relative. Ivy League graduates feel superior to everyone else. They seek each other out, tend to marry one another and raise children who also treat the rest of the family like servants. It’s pernicious. They soak their parents dry financially and every other way, leaving siblings to see that the parents’ utilities remain connected and savings don’t disappear, all because they feel their education entitled them to treat their families and the rest of humanity like a servant class. When they talk to people who did not graduate from an Ivy League school, it’s as if they are holding their nose. Condescension don’t hardly get it. No one else’s time, energy or money is as valuable as an Ivy League graduate’s. We’re all TTT, or third tier trash, to them. I went in search of the inside perspective of how Ivy Leaguers view the rest of us and was grateful to read the term “third tier trash.” Yes, trash. That’s how Ivy Leaguers view the rest of us. The attitude rolls off of them in waves. Maybe they all hang out together because no one else can stand them.</p>
<p>So, darling, I hope this gives you some perspective as to why people hate Ivy League alumnae. I used to be proud that my brother had a degree from Harvard because the family dedicated so many resources to an education that was allegedly the most valuable, but after years of mistreating his family, I see we created a monster.</p>
<p>Ivy league is not all that life can offer us … I think there are a whole lots of other passions, interests that we can follow … A recent study tells us that we can feel satisfied till the point we earn $75000 … beyond that there is no substantial increase in our happiness index…</p>
<p>I think it is important to note that it is not the academics that make Ivy League schools or other elite universities (Duke, Northwestern, Georgetown, etc.) any better than, let’s say, Drexel University or the University of Oklahoma, it is the people you meet. There are many institutions around the country that offer an excellent educational experience, but I could argue that a lot of the learning, interest, and willingness to work hard rests in the hands of ‘the student.’ Let me know what you think?</p>