Should my daughter listen to her GC?

As a freshman, D22 met with her GC and planned out classes for future years that the GC would consider “most rigorous.” That plan included AP Biology as a junior and AP Physics 1 as a senior. In sophomore year, her teachers advised taking AP Physics 1 and AP Calculus AB together as a junior, which she is doing. She thought she would then take AP Bio as a senior.

Yesterday, in a course-planning session, the same GC said AP Bio is considered a 10/11 grade class and so she should instead take Environmental Biology at a local community college next year to look more competitive to colleges. As far as I can see this is not a lab class, but is likely a class my daughter would be interested in.

I’m not convinced this Environmental Biology course would look better to AOs and I’d love to hear from the CC community about this. What should she take?

For background, my daughter has already taken molecular bio and honors Chemistry, which is considered the most advanced sequence at her large urban high school. She is likely looking at a political science major in college and plans to apply to UCs, USC, Georgetown, etc.

Which courses does your daughter want to take ?

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This is a tough question, because “rigor” can be a locally determined issue. I can tell you that most community college classes I’ve ever seen or heard of have been at a much lower level than honors/AP classes at good suburban high schools. I would be very surprised if admissions committees are less than impressed with community college classes. I don’t know what the level of classes are at your child’s high school, but in general, I think that AP Bio would likely be seen to be at a higher level than that at a community college.

Has your daughter already taken regular high school biology? I don’t think that molecular biology is an AP class, in and of itself. AP Biology is, in my opinion, the most useful of any of the AP classes, because after having taken it, one has a basic understanding of life science that helps to understand disease, labs, treatments.

She’s going to be taking it in her senior year, so she won’t have an AP score in it to show schools. Yes, Biology is a 10/11 class, but many schools won’t allow students to take AP Bio until they’ve had high school biology, so it’s perfectly reasonable to take AP Bio as a senior. It’s not as if there is a sequence for the AP classes - they are all considered to be the equivalent of first year college classes.

If it were me, I’d take the AP Bio at the school, unless the teacher is no good.

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Science isn’t her favorite subject, but she has enjoyed prior biology courses. I think she would like either.

My point is that your daughter should decide which courses to take based on her interests, likes, & dislikes.

Seems as though your daughter’s guidance counselor is making too much out of course selection as all of the mentioned courses are rigorous.

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She took molecular biology as a freshman, and Honors Chemistry as a sophomore— both are considered the most advanced science options at her high school for those grades. She likes bio.

If the AP Bio class at her school has a good teacher, I think that’s the best option. No travel, probably more rigor. Many students from my kids’ good suburban public high school felt that the classes at their flagship state U’s didn’t match the rigor of the classes in the high school, until they hit junior year. It’s been my experience that community college classes were not at all rigorous - a fact that I’m sure the admissions committees are aware of.

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Good point about teacher. I will do some research on this. I think if she does want to do AP Bio she would need to ensure the GC will still check the most rigorous box. This seems more important since the GC also told her SAT/ACT tests in her district are a no-go this year.

In terms of rigor, AP bio (which has a lab) > DE Env bio with no lab. I would ask the GC how they are making their determination…many students take AP Bio in 11/12.

I do understand that she is not applying to a STEM major, but greater rigor makes her a relatively more competitive applicant.

Is her GC saying there will be no SAT/ACT tests even in the Fall? Assuming you are in CA? How can they know that? If true, that’s ridiculous. If she can get a test, take a test.

WHAT? Is your daughter currently a junior? Of course she can take an ACT or SAT! I got my kid a seat for the ACT in September 2020, when it seemed like no one would ever be in a room with anyone else ever again. I am a bit concerned about the “guidance” counselor guiding your daughter in the wrong direction.

You can take the sat or act where ever it is being proctored. Don’t wait of your school or GC.

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Her school district and surrounding districts have decided no ACT/SAT this school year. Some students going to Reno to take (2.5 hour drive).

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Yes, we are in California

Is the college course for biology majors (probably not if it does not have a lab)? If it is meant to be a general education course for non-science majors, then it is likely to be less rigorous.

The more rigorous college course option would be the general biology courses for biology majors and pre-meds.

If AP biology is overenrolled, the counselor may be trying to ration her out of the class.

How will the choice affect what the counselor marks for course selection rigor and academic achievement on the counselor report (see Salesforce )? This is used by many private colleges (but not UCs or CSUs).

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If I am looking at the the correct course, the catalogue states it is for both Biology and non-Biology majors.

Thank you all for input — I will do more research but at this point it seems as if she should stay with AP Bio. My D is checking with friends about the teacher.

Since you are in California, you can use https://www.assist.org/ to see if (a) the course is transferable to UC and CSU, and (b) whether it is considered equivalent to a course required for biology majors at UC and CSU campuses of interest.

So you have her prep for either exam, and you sign her up for a test being offered closest to you, on the best date for you. You don’t have to wait for the school to host a free administration. It’s not very expensive.

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We’ve signed her up for SAT exams since the summer and they were all canceled— PSAT as well. Kids are driving to Reno because there are no public school districts in our metropolitan area allowing the test in their schools. This morning we switched her May reservation to a local private high school and Reno in June.

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Her GC gave her poor advice. I don’t think there’s any chance a course titled “Environmental Biology” from a local CC would be considered by colleges to be more rigorous than AP Bio.

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Good advice above. I’d lean towards AP Bio, but investigate the details and discuss with the teacher actually teaching the AP course.

AP Bio is certainly not a “10/11th grade course”. I’ve never seen it listed in any “easy” or “less rigorous to colleges” list of AP courses, of which there are several.

Last year’s AP Bio test:
36,420 10th grade
99,050 11th grade
92,068 12 grade

Chem is 18/85/41k, so that’s much more strongly biased to 10/11th than Bio.

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