This is great info.
Thank you everyone for your input - very helpful.
This is a great tool! Yes, the course transfers to UC and CSU but does not appear to be that primary bio lab course that bio majors wold take. Those look to be 5 credits whereas this is only 3.
I’ll never forget when I got a call from the principal when my son was in tenth grade, at the beginning of the school year. He was signed up for AP Bio with the most amazing teacher - both my older ones had her, and we knew she was one of the best teachers in the school. Anyway, there was a new teacher who was also teaching AP Bio, and luckily my kid had not gotten her. The principal called me at work to ask if I would switch my kid to the new teacher’s section, because I hadn’t yet signed my kid up for the concurrent college credit that the class qualified for (we DID intend to, and shortly thereafter did sign him up). The old teacher’s sections were qualified, but the new teacher had not qualified as an adjunct teacher for the flagship state U, so no dice on her sections.
Anyway, when the principal asked if we minded if he moved our son out of the fantastic teacher’s section to the new teacher’s, I said, “Over my dead body!” And boy was I right. The new teacher apparently was horrible. My kid’s friends in her section had a terrible year with her.
The point I am illustrating is that recommendations are sometimes made that do not have your child’s best interest at heart. Whether out of ignorance, or a need to balance class size, or a need to make seats in a class available to other children that for some reason, the school would prefer to have take the seat, counselors sometimes make recommendations that are not good for your child. This sounds like one of those times.
As for the issue of “rigor”. I understand that the counselor designates the “rigor” of the courses for college applications. AP Bio is the right choice. You should check to make sure that someone reviews with the counselor that AP Bio is the most rigorous choice available, more rigorous than bio without lab at a community college.
3 Likes
I agree with the consensus that AP bio is almost certainly more rigorous then just about any community college class. It’s more rigorous at our high school than any of the directional U classes my son took.
I think the big question is the “most rigorous” box. If the GC is requiring a community college class for that box, it’s dumb but I would still take the community college class. Otherwise take whatever she wants.
Course rigor matters most at really selective schools and, even there it is at the margin. Even at highly selective schools a 4.2 with a relatively light schedule is going to beat a 3.9 with a super rigorous one.
I don’t know her stats capabilities so its hard to say what I would do. I have seen lots of HS kids get overbooked, overstressed, burned out and miserable by taking the ‘most rigorous’ path - and to what end? CA has lots of very good colleges that are available to the average student.
In normal times, Jr and Sr year get crazy. I would counsel her to build some breathing space into her schedule. Only you (and she) know what that means.
Good luck.
I don’t necessarily agree with this, do you have a source for this? Rigor is very important at the highly selective schools.
2 Likes
I could be wrong, but I thought that barring something unusual to the upside not having “most rigorous” checked was the kiss of death at a T20 and maybe even T50 school.
I guess if you aren’t shooting for that, it might not matter. But I’m assuming that since they had the converstation as a frosh and have set up the schedule this way, for OP it matters.
1 Like
Many school GCs don’t complete that part of the app. Many of the private schools don’t and many of the better (read more affluent) publics don’t. My kids’ public HS does not check off anything in that section that because it could hurt the applicants…same reasons why they only report weighted GPA on transcripts, and stopped ranking kids.
1 Like
That’s really interesting, I thought it was standard and required (either the box is checked or you are considered to NOT have had the most rigorous schedule).
D25 is applying to boarding schools right now (new experience for our family, she is 4of4), and that is something I am going to ask about if she has choices when acceptances are released.
Since these (at least the 4.2) are obviously weighted GPAs, the rigor is implicitly included in the GPAs (although weighting methods can be argued about in terms of how accurate they are in rewarding rigor).
Many HSs have become facile at developing practices that put their students in the best light, without over-labeling/segmenting them.
I would ask these questions of the BSs she is applying to. I would also ask if they limit college applications in any way. We have seen a number of CC posters over the years where the policy is to limit applications by round and/or in total, and families agree to that upon matriculation.
Reporting only weighted GPA can cause students to self-deceive how competitive they are at various colleges, especially if the weighting is heavy. For some reason, many students seem to have difficulty calculating their unweighted GPAs.
That’s why they have the GC/naviance/scoir to set them straight!
I agree, and continue to be gobsmacked about this.
Applicant targeting t20s: “My weighted gpa is 5.6”
CC Posters: “What is your unweighted GPA?”
Applicant: “I don’t know, my school doesn’t report that”
CC Posters: “Calculate it yourself like this…”
Applicant: disappears.
3 Likes
i have a friend on her 5th child in HS who still doesn’t understand unweighted GPA. (i think she’s choosing not to!)
my question: will a GC tell a child what the most rigorous classes are? Can you ask the school how they figure this out (if its important to your kid?) Does the school have a set standard all guidance counselors know about?
OP here. D22 is enrolled in a competitive magnet-type program within a large urban high school. She has a 4.0 unweighted GPA, but no standardized test scores (all canceled, even PSAT) Right now her college list includes reaches like USC, UCLA and UC Berkeley — looking at Georgetown. Rigor will be important — she wants to be competitive. She has done very well in previous bio classes and should be able to handle AP Bio without issues.
I think it is a bit fuzzy. Some posters have said it was clearly laid out what was required to get the box checked, at least one had a counselor refuse to give info on how the decision was made, which I thought was weird. My guess is that most of them have rough guidelines, but it is a bit loose. And as @Mwfan1921 mentioned, USUALLY they are trying to paint their kids in the best light. So my guess is that the box is probably overchecked, if anything.
At our public HS, I never even asked, because D took every honors class available, and maxxed out on the number of AP’s she could take every semester. I’m sure she did more than required, but she probably had literally the most challenging schedule out of the 350+ kids in her HS so I didn’t bother asking. For her brothers I didn’t ask because it didn’t matter.
If D25 stays here I still probably won’t bother, because with her personality and goals, her schedule will look like her sister’s.
1 Like
GCs at my daughter’s high school DO check the rigor box so yes, it will be very important to understand how a decision to stay in AP Bio as planned would impact that.
Note that UCs are probably test-blind, or possibly giving campuses a choice of test-optional or test-blind depending on court proceedings. Even before COVID-19-related test cancellations, UCs did not emphasize test scores as much relative to courses/grades/GPA compared to many other colleges. USC appeared to be more test-score focused before COVID-19, based on comparing the frosh profiles for USC and UCLA (USC had higher test scores but lower GPA). UCs do not use the counselor report mentioned above; rigor is embedded in the recalculated GPAs (see GPA Calculator for the University of California – RogerHub ). UCs do not use legacy or race/ethnicity in admissions, unlike USC and many other private schools.
Freshman fall admissions summary | University of California can show you past admission rates at UCs by GPA ranges (using the weighted-capped recalculated GPA).
no question they award rigor to some extent but, from a GPA perspective, AP Calc is the same as AP Stat and honors English.
To get into someplace like UCB or Stanford, you need both a high GPA AND course rigor. Lots of rigor and a low GPA (relative to other applicants) won’t get you in. Freshman fall admissions summary | University of California
look at how the admit rate drops at UCB and UCLA by GPA band,
and at the middle 50%GPA weighted an unweighted. 3.92 UW is the 25th percentile - no matter how hard her classes are, a sub 3.9 UW is going to make UCLA a tough admit.
https://admission.ucla.edu/apply/student-profile
I am not suggesting she sand bag - but that she take on a manageable workload. The UCLA data suggests she’d need more than 20 AP honors semesters to be in the mix.
1 Like