Love all the intel. Yes, she will have 20+ honors, AP or community college semesters. Currently 4.0 UW and 4.3 weighted. Lots of kids from this program go to UCs — many to UCB (but oddly few to UCLA). Will take 4 years in all the cores, and 5 in math. In senior year AP Lang, AP Gov, AP Bio, AP German, AP Stats, and newspaper.
I don’t think there is any question that she will have rigor. The only question is whether she can get the box checked.
Agree! Thanks CC for bucking me up — emailing her today for clarification!
If the guidance counselor says that she won’t check “highest rigor” because your daughter chooses to take AP Bio instead of a community college class, you would need to discreetly take this to the administration. I suspect that the guidance counselor needs some guidance herself.
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If they look for a single little box to be checked to give the thumbs up or down I don’t know what to say. If it comes to the point you are under a microscope like this I am sure they are looking at coursework/exams to make the decision, then ECs tilt the scale.
My son is doing Independent study Multivariable Calculus/Differential Equations his senior year. His high school will not give him a weighted grade for the course. He took AP Calc BC his sophomore year and AP Stats his junior year. He fought tooth and nail but they would not budge. He knew kids that studied AP Euro Independently and got weight added. They floundered and finally the Math Dept. head too the blame.
He has too many APs for AP sake already. His math teacher and myself convinced him it would look as good or better on his transcript as any other course he could take.
Would this course disqualify him from having that little box checked?
I do not trust Guidance Counselors.
For the most selective colleges that use this counselor’s report, having the “most demanding” course selection and “one of the top few” for academic achievement checked is probably necessary, but not sufficient, for admission.
As far as specific course choices and your student’s counselor, the only real answer can come from the counselor.
20 honor/AP semesters isn’t really all that much. Most kids who are taking a decently rigorous class set are taking twice or three times as many. A student takes about 30-35 credits for 10-11 and first semester of 12th grade, and students looking for a rigorous schedule take almost entirely honors or AP classes.
Admission to UCLA for an applicant with a 3.9 may be tough, but its still easier than most college with the same prestige. The admission rate for that band is 8%, which is far better than it would be for many colleges with total admission rates of that level. Moreover, 3.9 is closer to 3.92, so the admission rate is likely closer to 15% for students with this GPA (weighted capped for 3.9 would be 4.17).
UCs interest in weighted capped means that students should not take too many classes. Basically, the highest UW GPA is a constant (4.0), the highest weighting is a constant (8), and the only variable is the number of classes that is taken. The weighted grade is ((4.0x no. of classes) + 8)/(no. of classes), which equals 4.0 + 8/(number of classes). So the more classes a student takes in 10th, 11th, and the first semester of 12th, the lower their capped + weighted GPA will be.
Fortunately we don’t have to deal with UCs. But we have a similar issue. D took a dual credit class at the local directional U, from a college prof with a mix of hs and college kids in the class.
Her A+ in that class brought DOWN her GPA, because it wasn’t honors or AP. We can take up to 5 full year classes a semester, so 10 total (which is insane, but a different issue). Most kids take 3 or 4 a semester, but if you want to you can take 5. D has frequently taken 5, because she has an EC that requires a class, and she likes to take a PE class like fitness or weightlifting (which is graded). So she might have 3 or 4 academic classes, but 5 total. Every one of the non honors/AP classes brings down her GPA. If she dropped the EC and didn’t take extra PE classes or other random but interesting classes, her GPA would be higher.
I get that things need to be weighted, otherwise the kid who takes nothing but shop or Home Ec is the valedictorian. But it has been aggrevating that every time she pushes herself to do more, her GPA takes a little ding. The “smart” kids who care about class rank just take the minimum non-AP/honors classes.
Do they consider class rank? That is where full weight would play out. These kids are competitive despite our advising against it. Do you think class rank plays a big factor? Does the size of this class have a factor?
Just curious!
In this case, AOs see that, and regardless of class rank, someone with greater rigor (assuming high unweighted GPA) will have a stronger application than a student with lots of non-AP/honors that has a similar unweighted GPA.
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Her weighted GPA is only used by her school. Most colleges care more about her UW GPA, and that A+ helps with that, and the fact that it was dual credit means that it is at least at the level of an Honors class.
So, for college admissions, you do not have to worry whether a rigorous class reduced her weighted GPA, because the high school doesn’t consider it an Honors class.
It is annoying that class rank in your high school is affected by this, but colleges will likely not consider the class as less rigorous than an honors class.
Given that there are only 5 options (or is it 4?) to differentiate rigor among all students, I suspect the vast, vast majority of applicants to top schools have “most rigorous” checked. Don’t count on that as a big plus in an application, IMO.
Don’t count on it being a plus at the most selective colleges, but count on a lower rating being a minus.
I was aware of this for my kids, but our attitude was that they should take all the extras that they wanted to, and not worry about it bringing down their GPA. The band teacher really wanted the kid to take regular band, too, every year. Some years he just sat in on band, as a lunch period, without taking it officially as a class, so that it wouldn’t drop his GPA.
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True, but most high-achieving kids at her HS take fewer APs/honors on the whole. Top teachers have developed their own curriculum and not all have been designated by UC as an honors class. Example: 9th grade science options are rudimentary life science, grade-level bio and molecular biology. Molecular biology was developed by two of the schools’ teachers and includes weekly experiments and detailed lab reports. They go deep on some units, like genetics, that the other classes skip or skim. This is a rigorous class and students need a teacher recommendation and certain grades to enroll — but it is not a weighted honors class. UCs will know about this school but maybe this will be missed at OOS schools.
I did make sure she took the honors or AP version where available, and take the max AP (4 Junior and senior year, 2 soph). As far as the extra classes she took I mostly stewed and fretted about it but kept it to myself, including not discussing it with D so as to not discourage her from her EC and trying things that sounded interesting or fun.
In the end she got in the school she would have picked if she had a golden ticket, so I worried for nothing. I’m happy I kept my mouth shut.
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