<p>lderochi - forget what fields your S is interested in, but Engineering often doesn't have a language requirement in college :p.</p>
<p>My God, its Spanish! He can't eek out a B???? He isn't working at it.</p>
<p>beprepn</p>
<p>Iderochi, Then, aside from the "withdrawal" on his transcript, which might raise a few eyebrows unless explained, I don't think he'll be horribly harmed by only having two full years of a language. The exception would be if he is aiming at Ivy-level schools in terms of selectivity, but, as I recall, that's probably not going to be his goal. But for most other schools, including very selective ones, I don't think this will hinder him tremendously.</p>
<p>Iderochi, at the end of the day, it probably doesn't really make much difference whatever your son decides to do about Spanish. A W is not great on a transcript, but neither is a C -- also, some colleges do recalculate a GPA, so maybe an 81 is more like a low B? </p>
<p>That said, I think you should encourage him to stick it out. I agree with GoBlueAlumMom that it's more about perseverance in life, than college application success. Since it's unlikely to make much of a difference at the colleges he's interested in, then maybe you should look at other issues. The ability to battle through a tough subject (with a poor teacher!) is a skill that will serve him well in college and later in life. Think of all the bad managers out there! And whatever Spanish he does pick up will be useful in life. Spanish is a common language around the world, and it may prove to be useful at some point. So, I think the issue should be more about life-lessons than about college apps. Hope that helps! P.S. I vote for getting a tutor, some language software or something else to help him proceed in the class.</p>
<p>I may be wrong about this...but I have a feeling that among all the 'core' areas, colleges might be more forgiving of lower grades in foreign languages than any other courses... When my #2 son interviewed he often drew attention to his struggle with French, in fact. He had decided early on to stick it out though until senior year (IB Standard level French) he never had a grade higher than a B-. These grades did cause havoc to his GPA...you can't get a great GPA with a B- every semester, but did not impact his admissions at all. He was determined to be fluent in French, though he cannot spell in any language...</p>
<p>The differences to your situation- my son liked the teachers very much, and he also saw the applicability of the language to his fields of interest...this made it worth it to him.</p>
<p>If your son stays in, I would definitely look into a tutor. It made a lot of difference for both my boys in their language learning...</p>
<p>I think more explaining would have to be done for a W than for a single C in Spanish....</p>
<p>
[quote]
He was determined to be fluent in French, though he cannot spell in any language
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LOL!</p>
<p>Thanks. Consensus seems to be stick it out and get outside help as needed. Sounds good to me.</p>
<p>I know you are in the earlier stages of mapping out colleges that may be a great fit and spark your S's interest. It is really Easy to make a C in high school, especially in language. I don't think one semester or even two Cs in third year language is going to be a dealbreaker at most colleges since you are also presenting a young man with many other strengths and solid grades and scores. Many good schools are still going to want him! My husband's roomie in college made Ds in the forced language requirements and is writing for the Dallas paper and has published a couple books. My S often thought he "had studied" in the upper levels of a language and then was surprised on the tests that indeed it was not enough drilling at home. I think once you get to the third year in HS this is complicated by the distractions of harder math, science and other courses that suck up homework concern hours, and it is easy to blow a couple language grades. I guess I would suggest a "concern" meet with his teacher and him, raise the question of what it would take to improve, stay as low key as possible, let son absorb some of the responsibility and build in a bit more remedial efforts, and ask what she sees that might be helpful as he completes the year. I did this in fourth year of a language with my S..only time really in HS, and he wobbled through to a B. It was nerve-wracking! But hang in there. All will be well. I would lean toward completion of the year so he doesn't have a defeatist attitude in college re requirement. And we regret that S did not immediately as a junior take a stab at the SATII which would have eliminated a semester of language.</p>
<p>I agree with lkf725. He can increase his grade from 81 to B+. There is still time to improve it. Although many colleges like to see students with three years of foreign language. Ask your S to get help from the teacher and get all extra credits he can get. Sometime class participation may help a lot too.</p>
<p>Anent the "character building" theme: There's that, and there's also "You gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em." I'll admit that I have a problem with the attitude that a high school student should slavishly follow a designated curriculum because it will "look good" for college. What about the idea that a kid should study stuff because he ought to learn it? Personally, I liked foreign languages back in the day; took Spanish in HS, French in college, learned enough German and Italian to be dangerous when I travelled. So it was a good thing for me - I learned something. But taking that third year "because colleges expect it" - what is the message we're sending about education with that advice?</p>
<p>So, character building - yeah, it's good to not quit. But it's also good sometimes to recognize that you made a bad decision, and should reasonably consider reversing it, if you can. If your son can get into a class for the spring semester which would actually contribute to his education, instead of just giving him an opportunity for character building, that might be the better solution all around. (My kids are jocks. Lots of opportunities for character building outside of class for jocks.)</p>
<p>Maybe it's just that I've found myself humming the old Pete Seeger song: "Waist deep in the Big Muddy and the damn fool kept yelling to push on..." Sing along!</p>
<p>Another aspect of language study to consider is what happens after the students in college. Many colleges have language requirements. Incoming freshmen take placement tests or use their AP or IB scores to determine how many years of language they need to take. For my son, who is also language adverse, the thought of taking college level language was torturous. He solved the problem by concentrating on schools without language requirements. If thats too restrictive, plodding through another year of high school Spanish may be preferable to being saddled with it as a college freshman.</p>
<p>As far as admissions goes, I think that three years of language is a fairly basic requirement for upper tier colleges, four years for the more selectives. My son skirted the issue by taking two years each of two different languages. They were his weakest courses and even though he was conversationally fluent in one of the two I dont think he ever received above a B-. Bottom line, although I sympathize with your son, Id be inclined to advise him to stick with it for another year.</p>
<p>according to the college counselor at my school, a withdraw looks bad. encourage him to stick it out.</p>
<p>momrath--Aren't college admissions requirements usually "X" number of years of a single language? Was his strategy of taking just the entry-level courses of two different languages successful?</p>
<p>Haven't read the entire thread, but we hit a similar issue earlier in the year with S2. Last spring, I tried to guide him out of taking another year of Spanish (I think it was IV and not III for him). It was clear to me that it wasn't really his subject. He signed up anyway, and within the first week of school he realized that it wasn't for him. We had a conference call - him, his dad, his step-mom, and myself. And, after a quick reality check with our for-hire counselor, he dropped Spanish X and is now taking Art I (enjoying it and doing well). Art I is on the UC a-g list, so no loss with respect to applying to UCs.</p>
<p>I do agree with other posters that it does seem to be late in the semester to be making a change. Sticking it out may be a better route for OP's S. Maybe fodder for a good college app essay (how i persevered in the face of 'hola amigos')</p>
<p>Thanks AW -- And I'm glad your son found a class that was a better choice for him. The thought of doing an essay on his Spanish class travails would probably make S break out in hives! Anyway, I think the "how I persevered and what I learned from it" essay makes most people's eyes glaze over unless the story is really compelling -- and somehow "I hate Spanish and my teacher's a witch" doesn't have much ooomph to it :)</p>
<p>Iderochi, I feel for him and for you. We had a similar situation with son. He took SP2 as a freshman, 3 as soph, then couldn't fit 4 into his schedule junior year (he was thrilled). GC and I powwowed and thought he really should take Sp 4 senior year, so he did considering he was applying to selective schools. Wasn't happy, always hated the subject. Sp 4 teacher couldn't believe he did so well in other AP's (Spanish was not even honors I don't think) and had such a poor attitude about Spanish, but some kids just aren't good at it. And your son certainly isn't going to major in it.</p>
<p>I say getting him out of there wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. He has 5 long months ahead for the year. As you mentioned if he can fill the time with an AP level science half-year course and do reasonably well, I think that's better. </p>
<p>As far as character building, absolutely true but sometimes knowing you can get out of a bad situation and change things isn't a bad lesson either. I can tell you dropping classes in college is fairly common. Both my kids did it, sometimes late in the semester and still graduated without an extra semester (that was my stipulation...drop all you want as long as it doesn't cost me an extra semester's tuition!). Remember your son wasn't keen on the idea in the first place. With a B+ 1300ish I think he'll be able to get into some fine schools with just 2 years (better check though).</p>
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<p>Dont ask. Not only was language continuity suspect, but he also refused to take science or math senior year! It worked out fine and hes a junior at Williams now. He applied and was accepted ED so well never know (thankfully) how other selectives would have viewed his course load. Hes still not studying language, but doing okay in his science/math distribution requirements. As I said, I wouldnt recommend this strategy unless the student has a darn good reason for making his choices.</p>
<p>In my sons case, the language that he studied in his early years was Indonesian, where we live. He felt in the event that he ended up at a school that had a language requirement that he may not be able to continue Indonesian so he switched to Spanish.</p>
<p>As for the science and math, he completed the minimum IB requirements and chose to concentrate on the arts/humanities courses that he loves and excels at. It worked, but I think it was quite risky.</p>