<p>Re Posts 272 to 274: </p>
<p>From the girl’s posts online, I think she wants to stay close to home near her parents. Great she qualified for the Hope, and raised her ACT scores from 31 to 34. Also, I like that the NYT is following her. She is an interesting contrast to the more worldly kids they are also following, such as the student from Las Vegas who wrote an amazing but preternaturally cynical post about the college admissions process.</p>
<p>I’m thrilled that my freshman son accepted a full ride to Maryland this year. He chose Maryland over other, more elite schools, some of which offered him very nice merit scholarships. He is thriving at UMCP and loves it, and man, I’m stoked that we’re saving a ton of money (though his twin sister is full pay at Maryland 
)!</p>
<p>However, I believe that because of his natural easygoing and intelligent manner, he’d have been equally content and successful elsewhere. I’m extremely pleased not to have spent money that I will actually save for other things. But I’m not in the least bit critical of those who make the choice not to go for the full ride and opt for an expensive private option instead.</p>
<p>JenPam, I am glad to hear about your son. One of my friend’s sons took an almost full ride to Maryland over University of Pennsylvania. He graduated with a 3.9+ and attended Maryland law. The money saved by the dad paid for law school! It was an amazing win for the whole family, which is one reason that I started this thread. I wanted people to think about this option.</p>
<p>I am curious to know where is this law school graduate working now? D2 is interested in going to law school…</p>
<p>I remember reading about an income/school study last year. Essentially the study concluded the following: If a kid considered themselves good enough to apply to a selective school but ended up going to a not so selective school, their income levels down the line seemed on par with those coming out of selective schools.</p>
<p>It might have been this.</p>
<p>[On</a> the Payoff to Attending an Elite College](<a href=“http://www.nber.org/digest/dec99/w7322.html]On”>On the Payoff to Attending an Elite College | NBER)</p>
<p>A school does not “teach” you. You teach yourself. It is the person that gets the job, keeps the job and earns promotions not a piece of paper. That being said I believe the reason why the “average” ivy league kid outperforms the “average” state school kid is that they had great potential to begin with. I would also imagine that an overwhelming majority of Ivy kids are from very privileged households with connections etc. If the same kid with high potential went to a state school they would be just as successful. </p>
<p>I think it makes sense that if the parents are upper middle class or lower that their kids should go to less expensive schools if no aid is available. Student loans, early withdrawal penalties on 401k’s, and home equity loans should be avoided at all costs. If the kid has a scholarship and maintains it then fine. If you are super rich and have 250k for a nice private school then that is fine too. But if you are middle class with a net worth of less than a million it makes poor financial sense to spend 250k. </p>
<p>Also you must consider graduate school. For the cost of the 250k private undergraduate degree you could get a cheap state undergraduate degree + a prestigious grad degree. Given that the state school kid had the same test scores and grades as the Ivy kid they could probably get into high ranking grad schools. </p>
<p>However things change and some students who weren’t great ivy material when they were 18 will realize their potential later in life. Moreover things change even more once everyone has graduated. People fail to realize that success in academics DOES NOT equate to success in professional fields. In my few years in public accounting I have seen a handful of prestigious degree holders get fired or have mental breakdowns and quit because they don’t have the work ethic. There are people without degrees that will be more successful than 99% of Harvard. Like Steve Jobs for instance.</p>
<p>This boils down to the value that other people place on one’s degree. Honestly, when you are on the job, does anyone care where anyone else went to school? Or, put in this way, out of all the personal characteristics a person can have (background, personality, anything and everything) how much of one’s perception of another person is based on where they went to college? Honestly, I would argue not really that much. The ivies et al can certainly open doors, and their power is not to be denied, but when you look at specific industries, I feel all are unique, and all people can find a way to get a foot in the door. Honestly, on a sheet of paper someone’s degree might look better, but in the real world of human interaction, I think it matters much much less than a lot of the ‘conventional wisdom’ holds. </p>
<p>What do you guys think?</p>
<p>I think you care too much about what other people think. Choose a college that will provide you with what you are looking for. Don’t base your decision on whether anyone cares where you went.</p>
<p>But this discussion centers on prestige, which is a social construct. How much do people evaluate your identity in terms of your college? How much do people ask over the course of a year, and how much do people value the answer when it comes up? If you can figure out a way to get a great first or second job, then the degree is probably irrelevant.</p>
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<p>No, this discussion centers on how much you should spend for a college degree. If all you care about is how others will see you based on your diploma, then of course, go for the big name college over any others. If you care about the quality of the resources available, your peers, the location, class sizes, campus housing, extracurricular offerings, etc., choose the college that fits your requirements. For many people, the expensive privates fit their needs and they are happy to pay for it.</p>
<p>Yeah but I still feel like prestige is still in the back of people’s minds. Any flagship state has the same or maybe only a tad less resources than an ivy… depends on field of study too… but what my point is is that others don’t see other people based on where they went to school, which is why if someone can get the same job (which is how i would most greatly evaluate the financial decision of college) then the name really doesn’t matter, no?</p>
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<p>Smart kids often need the external reward of praise for their successes. Brilliant kids tend to do things for themselves and not care about external praise – in fact, they will often consider effuse praise for relatively minor accomplishments as being bogus. Those in the former group may need to at the very top of their peers to feel successful; those in the latter group would rather be challenged by peers who are their equals or even smarter.</p>
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<p>If that is true and it is all you care about, then of course you should go to the cheapest possible college that will still get you the job you want. For others, quality of life issues factor in; you will spending 4 years of your life in one place and (hopefully) making friends and connections that will last a lifetime. College is not just like 4 more years of high school; you have the chance to choose the best educational environment for yourself, experience a new geographical location, live on your own, go to plays, music, sporting events, etc you may never have seen before. It is much more than just bringing home a diploma.</p>
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<p>Huh? I don’t see any Harvard graduate applicants to our job openings in our company. I have not seen, for me, an opportunity my Yale graduate friend has.</p>
<p>I think we’re all beating around the bush here. For the average American family, which is the best option?</p>
<p>Going to a name-brand school for $45,000/year and ending up in over $200,000 in debt?</p>
<p>OR</p>
<p>Going to a state or city school with a much lesser reputation for $8,000/year and only being $40,000 in debt?</p>
<p>Former or latter.</p>
<p>If a family has saved zero for college, I’d say neither elite nor state are reasonable options for paying full ticket. Community college and transferring to state college the last two years would be a better option, while the student works to pay the lower tuition, rather than incur five figures of student loan debt.</p>
<p>Also, $200K will not be enough for an elite school – many are already over $60K per year, and extrapolating from recent tuition inflation, all are likely to average $70K+/yr over the next four years, so I would plan on closer to $300K, assuming 4 years to graduate.</p>
<p>This entire discussion is pointing to an obvious conclusion, that the college tuition bubble may be about to burst. Consider the news articles shared earlier in the thread, wherein even colleges that have promised “need-blind” admissions and have ten figure endowments are shifting from grants to loans for financial “aid.” If the number of full-tuition paying students is no longer enough to support financial aid for the remainder of the student population, and students are already taking out student loans beyond what is financially prudent, then colleges are going to look much different and be many fewer in number in the not-too-distant future, with online school being the only practical option for the Average American family.</p>
<p>Triserdad hit the nail on the head.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>On the question of value for money, it’s obviously impossible to say. Attend the best school you can afford. Everyone had to decide for themselves the meaning of “best” and “afford”.</p>
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<p>The median household income in the US is around $51,000. If your family’s income is under $60,000/year, your family will not be expected to contribute toward tuition at most top-20 colleges. This makes the elite colleges cheaper than any in-state options.</p>
<p>$60k/year many not be enough to live on in Manhattan or Silicon Valley, but it’s not so bad in the Midwest and the South, especially once you get outside of the very largest cities and suburbs.</p>
<p>Depends on the intended field of study, really.</p>