Should your kids attend a well known, expensive private school at full tuition?

Parents Forum
101

<p>That’s neat, having the family connection going to the same school, sevmom. Plenty of family loyalty going there. I’ve heard that VA Tech is a great school, so I’m sure he can hang right in there with the rest of the top graduates.</p>

<p>And yes, the cream rises to the top no matter what school they go to. Then again, not all of our kids can be the cream in all respects. They can be brilliant, but shy. What if they don’t interview well? What if they are introverted or eccentric? That, I think, is where being at a school that is highly recruited for their graduates in certain fields comes in handy. The companies may overlook some of the non-conformist traits of students to recruit from that particular school.</p>

<p>One of the recent jobs fairs at my kids mid-size school had about 120 companies, many of the top tech companies, most looking for CS and Computer engineering students. This may be useless to kids in other fields, but for kids in this career field, I am certain that having close to the same number of recruiters as graduates in the specific career field, makes a big difference.</p>

102

<p>I attended an top 10 elite school. It was 4 years of very hard work and stress to graduate in the top few percentiles of my class. Not a lot of fun being a middle class kid surrounded by uber-wealthy household-names without a care in world and obsessive-compulsive career-at-any-cost tools. I can honestly say 30+ years later that my very few old friends are scattered globally, and I rarely see or converse with any of them. The main “continuity” since graduation has been the development office soliciting donations. My son passed on elite schools for which we would pay full-fare, electing to attend a prestigious honors program at our state flagship. He appears to be having a much better experience than I ever had, and will have plenty of money left in the 529 to fund graduate/professional school. Observing his friends and their experiences at elite private schools, we are very happy to be $25,000 ahead after only one semester, with what we all regard as a preferable experience. If you really want to make yourself ill, divide the cost of tuition by the number of hours of actual face-time with professors.</p>

103

<p>That makes sense , busdriver, My kids (UVa and VT)were athletic (regionial and all state stuff), and social. I can undertand that it would make a difference if a child was introverted. We just all want to do what feels best for our kids in the long run.
UVa and Virginia Tech have lots of recruiters also.</p>

104

<p>I completely agree with the original intent of this post. Both my parents graduated from Texas Tech University. My mom got her masters at Texas State, and my dad got his at UT at El Paso. And my family is doing fine. My dad is actually a sought after employee in many companies in his area, compared to those who went to higher ranked schools. My cousin just graduated from Tech, and had a very good job lined up right after graduation. After much of the same conversation with my family, it seems that where you go doesn’t matter as much as how much you make of the opportunities. To me, the difference between even MIT and a public university does not make enough difference to merit spending 100k more. As my dad always says, your university will help get you your first job, but from there it is all you and what you put into your work.</p>

105

<p>To the poster who termed honors colleges in state schools as ‘icky’–I don’t quite see what you mean by that? </p>

<p>My D is in an honors college in a large flagship. She lived in honors dorms first year, and met the kind of bright, devoted, quirky, engaged students that I’m pretty sure she would have met at the top-tier LACs she was admitted to but declined to attend–and I’ll admit this freely–in large part because of the cost. (We could foot 100k but not 200k without lots of debt and sleepless nights.) But it never seemed like she was in some sort of exclusive ‘club’ or something. She made many friends outside of the honors scene, too.</p>

<p>She is happy with her choice. She’s made great faculty connections, has had several excellent internships, has been challenged in both honors and non-honors courses, developed a research-heavy independent study course with another student and a faculty advisor, and is spending this term overseas. She’s got a diverse group of friends, including some decidedly offbeat kids in far-flung majors, some in honors, some not, who are also into many of the same extracurricular pursuits (music, spoken word, outdoor adventures, organic farming) that she is into. It’s been a rich and varied experience, and all the better being one we could afford.</p>

<p>If we had had unlimited funds–she may have chosen differently. If we could have afforded anything, it would have been up to her, so I agree with those who feel ‘we have it, so why not spend it on this’. Education is important.</p>

<p>So maybe she would have opted for top 10 LAC. Then again, she may not have. She was immediately turned on by the excitement and ‘thrum’ of a big bustling campus. She has friends in very good LACs who sometimes complain about the small social pond, or about the drinking culture (funny, because she’s at the big school where you definitely have partiers–it’s just that it’s big enough to have many thriving sub-cultures apart from that scene).</p>

<p>With my kid, anyway, I think she would have made the experience the best she could have, at whatever school she chose. Some kids have more specific needs/requirements, and sometimes only a certain type of school will work for a certain type of kid.</p>

<p>There’s no right answer, it’s what is right for your family/your kid.</p>

106

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<p>That is one advantage to attending an elite school. If you’re introverted and reluctant to brag about your accomplishments, just being admitted to that school and, perhaps, being near the top of the class does a lot of selling for you automatically. The presumption is with you as you start the interview process.</p>

107

<p>I checked on the current female CEOs at Fortune 500 (circa 2012; per Fortune, there are 20 of them) thinking that top undergrad educational credentials might be necessary to break the glass ceiling. To my surprise, the results are not overwhelming for top schools:</p>

<p>Public = 6; Ivy = 2; Non-Ivy T15 = 3; T40 = 3; Top LACs = 3 (including HC); Other = 3 (National Christian, Rider, NLU)</p>

<p>Angela Braley (Wellpoint): Texas Tech</p>

<p>Heather Bresch (Mylan): West Virginia</p>

<p>Ursula Burns (Xerox): NYU-Poly </p>

<p>Ilene Gordon (Ingredion): MIT</p>

<p>Ellen Kullman (DuPont): Tufts</p>

<p>Gracia Martore (Gannett): Wellesley</p>

<p>Carol Matrowitz (TJX): Rider</p>

<p>Marissa Mayer (Yahoo): Stanford</p>

<p>Kathleeen Mazzarella (Graybar): National Louis University (Chicago)</p>

<p>Sheri McCoy (Avon): U Mass</p>

<p>Beth Mooney (Key Corp): Texas</p>

<p>Denise Morrison (Campbells Soup): Boston College</p>

<p>Deanna Mulligan (Guardian): Nebraska</p>

<p>Indra Nooyl ((Pepsi): Madras Christian College (India)</p>

<p>Debra Reed (Sempra): Southern Cal</p>

<p>Ginni Rommety (IBM): Northwestern</p>

<p>Irene Rosenfeld (Kraft): Cornell </p>

<p>Meg Whitman (HP): Princeton</p>

<p>Maggie Wilderotter (Frontier): Holy Cross</p>

<p>Patricia Woertz (Archer Daniels): Penn State</p>

108

<p>^What is the point of sharing this? Looking at CEOs of the most powerful companies proves almost nothing. </p>

<p>For example, the woman who went to West Virginia was the daughter of a senator from West Virginia. Think she might’ve had a few connections from that? </p>

<p>A CEO of a company has to perform well in the company to rise to the top. At that point it has nothing to do with where you went to college. Also, you neglect to mention that the Umass grad has an engineering degree from Princeton, and the NYU-Poly grad went to Columbia. </p>

<p>It would be much more accurate to look at what jobs the grads get right out of college. Looking at 20 CEOs (most who got there ~20 years down the line) isn’t very telling.</p>

109

<p>Being a tax lawyer and CPA , I have met hundreds of successful people in my life. Let’s face it, the homeless don’t come to a tax lawyer unless they think I have a dirty car…bad New York joke…</p>

<p>Although not very scientific, I can say that the vast majority of the successful people that I know did NOT necessarily attend an ivy or semi ivy type school such as MIT, top LAC etc. In fact, many of these folks who did attend top schools weren’t that financially successful! Thus, I didn’t see any correlation between financial success and the cache of an undergrad college that these folks attended. They probably got the same “life changing” experience at all schools! In fact, I can say that probably most of the successful people that I know did NOT attend an expensive, competitive ( admission wise) private school. Assuming this is true for the population as a whole, which I know is a possible leap to assume, the benefits of paying for expensive undergrad schools don’t seem to be worth it when these same top students can go for free or almost free elsewhere. If this savings in tuition were given to the kids, they could have a HUGE head start in life. For example, if you take the same $200,000 saved and invested it for 30 years at 5%, you would get almost $900,000 at retirement. The same money invested for 40 years would be almost 1.5 million!
Note: I am NOT undervaluing or deprecating the value of education. In fact, I highly regard education. I just think, based on my life experience, that most accredited schools will give the same success rate and education as those of the expensive , competitive schools. Thus, why not save the money absent some overriding compelling factors such as disabilities, special majors, big scholarships at expensive schools etc.
I don’t know if all kids will get "life changing " experiences from attending college,but I do know that an extra $200,000 should in most cases result in substantial lifetime benefits. Again, just something to think about.</p>

110

<p>Agree. There are many here who say “I can and will pay for my kids’ college (and grad school) but after that they’re on their own” and have every intention of keeping their promises. And there are others who know that much of life happens–and requires financial support–long after college, and want to be able to help when it does. (Some very fortunate people are able to subsidize both.) What happens when one of our kids can’t find a job after graduation? Or they have one and lose it and can’t pay their rent? Or they get a job, but it’s in an expensive city and they need help with a down payment on a condo so they don’t have to live in a scary neighborhood? Or they marry the wrong person and end up needing legal help to get out of a bad situation? Or they have major medical expenses that their insurance won’t cover? </p>

<p>Life isn’t always a straight upward trajectory from great childhood to happy college years to successful adulthood. Not to mention that the future looks pretty different than when some of us were in school. Some of us think being able to help with the things our kids face after college is just as important as writing the check to Elite U. It’s not all about supporting frivolous expenses like fancy cars and vacations (either for them or for us), as a few posters here have insinuated.</p>

111

<p>I think part of the problem here is regional. The question in New England would be of attending an elite private vs. a state school. The question in other parts of the country may be very different - the question is whether to pay more for a perceived better experience, and how much more. That better experience may be based on prestige, but there are other factors, as well.</p>

<p>In our case, D is not applying to our state flagship. They are a good school, but not a good fit for her. They are competitive, so it’s not a question of a mediocre student body, but at least partly a matter of size - and money. Being in the solid middle class means there would be very little merit based aid, making it twice as expensive as Harvard or Yale, and equal in price to many of the LAC’s where she is applying. We do have a couple of full tuition offers in our pocket, based on National Merit qualification, but those are big schools and very OOS - Alabama and Arizona. </p>

<p>If we were in a financial position where there would be no aid at the private schools, we would also be in a position to easily afford those same schools. At that point, we would tell her to pick based on fit. We are not offering any savings to our kids - that is our money. We have told D how much we can afford - and thus how much she can afford - per year, and we are happy with any school in that range. Yes, if she chooses full tuition, we will make some of the savings available for supplemental educational experiences, or living expenses during possible unpaid internships, but otherwise it is “lost” to her. If money becomes part of the equation for her it will be because of perceived value (both financial and otherwise), not the thought of money ending up in her pocket. </p>

<p>If we lived in another part of the county, our decision might be very different. The idea of whether a student is likely to remain local is a very important one. But we have lived in 3 different states in the last 20 years, and I expect the same will be true of my children - and they may even choose to live in another country at some point. That has to factor in too.</p>

112

<p>"Although not very scientific, I can say that the vast majority of the successful people that I know did NOT necessarily attend an ivy or semi ivy type school such as MIT, top LAC etc. In fact, many of these folks who did attend top schools weren’t that financially successful! Thus, I didn’t see any correlation between financial success and the cache of an undergrad college that these folks attended. They probably got the same “life changing” experience at all schools! In fact, I can say that probably most of the successful people that I know did NOT attend an expensive, competitive ( admission wise) private school. "</p>

<p>Fully agreed. So what, though? If it is what gives me pleasure and I can afford it, what’s it to anybody? I don’t care what “most people” do or don’t do.</p>

113

<p>sally303 in post 110: Exactly! Your point seems to be lost on a number of people.
Pizzagirl, you cite part of my post *number 109) and then said, “so what?” Read through the rest of the post that you didn’t quote, which should answer your question.</p>

114

<p>The perspective of the cardiologist is a clear case of hindsight bias. </p>

<p>I’ve seen successful people that didn’t attend college at all.</p>

115

<p>mathmom,
"And I’m familiar with MD/PhD admissions where prestige does play a role because its individual professors eyeballing the applications one by one, but also critical is whether you’ve done research and whether you actually understand that research when you come and interview. A surprising number of students don’t! "
-As far as I know EVERY pre-med does research, either applying to Med. school or MD/PhD program. Ohterwise their application will be inferior in comparison to others, they all know that. In addition, pre-meds are truly interested in Medical Research and truly enjoy it. I also am not aware of any who do not understand what they are doing in the lab. It is not a rocket science, they are still UGs, they do presentations and talk about it a lot anyway. They are definitely ready to discuss it at interivew. Many are dissapointed that it is NOT brought up as much as they wish. There is lots of training going on, it is a great learning to intern in lab. but at the same time it is widely available at any UG, but not so much outside of student’s particular school.<br>
Nobody needs to go to any prestigious place to get it. However, if somebody want to be at Ivy, why not? It is a decision that belong with each particular family and nobody else.<br>
I agree 100% that before the family makes decision, they have to collect as much information about concequences as possible. But also is important to understand that many statistics floating on internet will be misleading unless you look very close at the data used as an input, evaluating it and applying it to your own situaiton. Blindly follow the crowd might not work, but again, it may.</p>

116

<p>Common sense dictates that we shouldn’t buy what we can’t afford, no matter how much the “perceived” value may be. I can’t understand why anyone would go into significant debt for college when there are usually other choices available. I’m helping a relative of limited means with her daughter’s college search, and I’ve really focused on the idea of “sticker price” versus actual cost. My goal is to find the most merit/need based aid possible and cast a wide net. She’s never heard of some of the schools I’ve suggested, and she and the parents are balking a bit at the idea of going to a “no name” school. This girl does not intend to go into a field with particularly high earning potential, so in her case it would be relatively catastrophic to graduate with high debt. However, I fear that the parents may end up making this an emotional rather than a practical decision - and they may choose the school with the idea that their daughter “deserves” the best, turning a blind eye to the reality. Horribly naive, but I suppose that is how many people end up in a deep financial hole.</p>

117

<p>"There are many here who say “I can and will pay for my kids’ college (and grad school) but after that they’re on their own” and have every intention of keeping their promises. And there are others who know that much of life happens–and requires financial support–long after college, and want to be able to help when it does. (Some very fortunate people are able to subsidize both.) What happens when one of our kids can’t find a job after graduation? Or they have one and lose it and can’t pay their rent? Or they get a job, but it’s in an expensive city and they need help with a down payment on a condo so they don’t have to live in a scary neighborhood? Or they marry the wrong person and end up needing legal help to get out of a bad situation? Or they have major medical expenses that their insurance won’t cover? "</p>

<p>I’ll deal with those situations if and when they occur. Of course, who knows what the future will bring. But for right now, I don’t see the need to say, for example, “if you go to the 30k state school instead of the 60k private, you can keep the difference.” I’m not offering 60k. I’m offering a college education.</p>

118

<p>“Common sense dictates that we shouldn’t buy what we can’t afford, no matter how much the “perceived” value may be. I can’t understand why anyone would go into significant debt for college when there are usually other choices available”
-Common sense for some is not so common for others. We really do not need to understand other people’s decisions, just accept them as is. Unfortunately even in cases when we actully will end up paying for their decision making, we still have no say in it as well as no say in what houses people can afford, the same exact thing and setting of priorities is still with each specific family. We can express opinion as long as there is an understanding that it will not result in any actions.
People get in a hole, country gets in a hole, continents get in a hole and nothing we can do but express our opinion and that might not last for long either…</p>

119

<p>MiamiDAP, I’m not saying prospective MDs don’t do research, it’s just not the most important part of their application. No one cares if their a little fuzzy on how it fits into the grand scheme of medical research. My DH does interviews - sure most kids understand the context of their work, but a surprising handful don’t. They also look at A’s from say top 50 schools differently from ones they’ve never heard of. </p>

<p>As for the vast majority of successful people didn’t attend Ivies - well duh! Eight schools! And not very big schools either. And as Pizzagirl and others have said, contrary to some, not every one at an Ivy is there because their goal is to be a CEO.</p>

<p>I don’t think any of us who send our kids to private colleges are advocating going into crippling debt to do so. But giving up a new car or cutting back on travel for a couple of years? Why not?</p>

120

<p>^Well, there is another side. D’s Honors college had 200 kids, top 200 applicants, qualifications were top 2% of HS class, ACT=31+. Vast majority were valedictorians, they filled Honors dorm. And again vast majority (maybe all) qualify for Ivy and most likely would be accpted (in D’s case, few top kids from her private prep HS routinely get accepted to Harvard and other Ivy’s and other Elite). OK, all of these kids decided…not to apply to ANY Elite, my own D. refused, she was advised to do so.<br>
Now we are saying that if thes kids continue pursuing academics in the same fashion in UG as they were doing in HS, they somehow would be less qualified to enter Med. School. I strongly disagree. I also state that it might not be the case with other fields, but I know specifically about Engineering and IT in addition to Med. School. Most people that I know well are either engineers or IT and I also know lots of MDs. At least one of these MDs also stated that even prestige of Med. School is not important, all you need is a Board Score to get into selective residencies.<br>
I am just saying, that it is up to a family, you want kid in Ivy, send her their. But to say that UG name will quarantee you some selective spot somewhere is misleading.
Well, others might have examples otherwise, I can only use my own experiences, others will express opinions based on theirs. I also do not trust ANY statistics when I decide, it does not work for me.</p>