<p>My daughter is a solid 93 GPA student with a probable ACT of 35. (no SAT yet) She will take 6 AP's,poss 7. She is interested in Brown. She is shy, but has good friends. She is not a leader. She is creative and will have an art portfolio, but isn't going to major in art, as it is a hobby. She has two EC's since freshman year, and independent violin (with NYSSMA for 7 years). She will have community service and Nat. Honor Society for every year. If she applies early decision, does she have a better than 50% chance? I don't want her to get her hopes up,or waste her time.</p>
<p>Well her GPA is good, not great for Browns standards but still acceptable. I dont know where you got the information for her probable ACT, but if she comes through and gets a 35 then that puts her in a good position to be in the running. Her ECs are good but kind of bland, tons of people are in NHS. She should join clubs where she shows colleges what her interests are, which in her case, should be artistic clubs. It may be hard for her to stand out without any leadership positions though so maybe urge her to try something else out like an internship. Those always look good on apps. </p>
<p>My thread (chance pls): <a href=“Chances for Vanderbilt, UNC, NYU, UF, and Duke? - Chance Me / Match Me! - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1610985-chances-for-vanderbilt-unc-nyu-uf-and-duke-p1.html</a></p>
<p>Thank you. Her probable ACT is based on her PLAN score, which was in the most selective category with no studying at all. A little studying and she should be getting a really high score. great idea about choosing clubs showing her interests. She will never be a leader, and it doesn’t interest her. She would rather solve problems. NHS is just something she is doing because she has no reason not to. I appreciate your helpful comments, thanks again.</p>
<p>Even though your daughter is shy, I would encourage her to go after some leadership positions in the EC’s she is involved in. One can be soft spoken and not a people person but still be on the executive board of an honor society or club that she has been a member of since Freshman year. She might not be “into” being a leader, but leadership and taking initiative is what good schools are looking for. Good leadership is solving problems, so she may be more valuable as a leader than she thinks. Schools want to build a community of involved students. NHS without being more involved is not going to distinguish her at all. I think that almost half my D’s high school made NHS. It was more of a stigma not to be in it, than an accomplishment to make it. Her GPA is relative to other’s in her school. Even if a school doesn’t rank, they will have some idea about what these numbers mean in relation to other students. You would want her to have a GPA in the top 5% of her school to be at all competitive in the Ivies without some other hook. While I would send in the art portfolio if Brown allows you to, unless it is RISD caliber, it will probably not make a difference. No one can give you a percentage chance of her being accepted. Even if her grades/ leadership/ talent/ EC’s were more spectacular, acceptance into Brown is not something that can be calculated like that. Remember that very subjective factors like essays need to be factored in as well. What does she plan on majoring in? Do her EC’s align with her intended major so that she can make herself stand out that way? </p>
<p>It’s not hard to start a club just for the sake of feigned leadership in high school. Plenty of kids start random clubs that practically do nothing and list it as their leadership role for the entirety of their four years in high school. </p>
<p>Thanks for the responses. Honestly, I don’t think she has a chance to get into a college like Brown. But if she really wants to aim for something like that, these answers are helpful and I will share this with her. I do find the emphasis on extracurriculars silly in a way. Who really wants to attend a college full of type A personalities? But because they are so selective, you have to play the game. My friend daughter just interviewed with Brown. She has stellar test scores, top 3 in a class of 300, lots of 5 's on AP’s, and a national merit scholar. As far as I am aware, hardly any EC’s. the interview seemed to go well, now she waits. But apparently, they were not interested in her lack of EC’s. </p>
<p>I disagree with you about the importance of EC’s and whether the emphasis placed on them by colleges is silly. First, I don’t think that people with strong EC’s are necessarily type A personalities. I think more than anything, EC’s tend to show a commitment and a passion towards something. They begin to identify a student in a way that grades and test scores can’t. Even leadership in a club doesn’t mean that someone is type A. Leaders can very quietly earn the respect of their peers. They can be level-headed, fair and organized. They can be an expert in something and a person that others can look up to for guidance. Teamwork is very important and EC’s help student navigate dealing with groups of people. These leadership traits are not type A based, but do indicate a student who can make a difference on a college campus. Schools will look at a student’s record of accomplishment and hope they will do even greater things as party of their community.</p>
<p>Understand that an interviewer may not put a student on the spot and grill them about their lack of EC’s. But when a student does have EC’s that are strong or interesting, they certainly tend to enter into the conversation. My daughters would always offer their resumes to the interviewer and many times the interviewer would ask for more details about something they saw on the resume that interested them. That is a very good thing to have happen on an interview, since now the student can show their passion and talk about things that matter to them. </p>
<p>On an interview at Brandeis, older D was asked to talk about her role as founder and manager of her acappella group. She mentioned something about recently designing their web page and the admissions person took out his laptop and pulled up the page. Luckily it was up and working. He then played several videos of the group performing and expressed how impressed he was. I really think this was the basis for her getting a $15K merit award! So now my daughter could be identified as a talented candidate (in both web design and music) who founded a high school acappella group that he thought was on par with university-level groups. D was able to separate herself from other applicants and be “labeled” her as a good singer and leader who would probably do acappella and theatre int his university if admitted.</p>
<p>She’s qualified and she absolutly should apply.
Does she have a >50% chance.
No, but <em>nobody</em> does except a recruited athlete.</p>
<p>Having less than a 50% chance at a school like Brown should not discourage an otherwise qualified candidate.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Thanks everyone, all the responses are helpful. I will be sharing your ideas with her.</p>
<p>I think it is certainly worth a shot! Best of luck!</p>
<p>Chance me if you can!
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1613053-chance-me-what-schools-would-be-reaches-matches-and-safties-for-me.html#latest”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1613053-chance-me-what-schools-would-be-reaches-matches-and-safties-for-me.html#latest</a></p>
<p>Hello Lindagaf</p>
<p>Your daughter should seriously consider using her one ED card on a school she loves where she might have a better shot than Brown. A lot of great schools have high acceptance rates during the ED round, then literally shut the door in the RD round. Use the ED card wisely, don’t waste it. </p>
<p>Have you looked at Smith College or some of the other women colleges. Smith is an amazing and beautiful college, and when we visited we got the impression that some of the women there came in quiet and shy, but really blossomed at Smith.</p>
<p>Brown does seem to seek more outgoing kids. Here are some notes I took from the Brown rep that visited our City:</p>
<p>“Looking for kids with insight and initiative to change the direction of the classroom discussion”
“Seeking applicants whose high schools will miss them the most”
“Looking for kids who challenge themselves outside the classroom” </p>
<p>From what I have gleaned, your daughter is not a senior? Perhaps not even a junior? If she is a sophomore or even younger, she has quite a bit of time to show her interests. Being a shy girl, she need not aim for leadership roles; however, it is still completely possible for her to get together with a bunch of similar-minded friends to create a club. If she takes the initiative, she is automatically the leader. </p>
<p>Other than that, let her do some competitions. Leadership, competition, and experiences are honestly the most important factors, while grades provide a kind of guide for those who have little of either of the three. Art competition will not require her to stand up and break out of her shy shell. She could also join or start an art magazine showing off the artistic talent of her and her classmates at school. Fulfill one of the three factors I listed very well, then she would be a great candidate. That said, even if she chooses not to, don’t give up on Brown. You’d be surprised about what type of people the admissions office may choose. </p>
<p>In her current situation, Brown is a reach. But, again, it looks like she has time to improve, so just make sure she makes the most of it.</p>
<p>Please chance me? <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1613118-chances-for-brown-u-of-rochester-amherst-and-u-of-michigan-ann-arbor.html#latest”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1613118-chances-for-brown-u-of-rochester-amherst-and-u-of-michigan-ann-arbor.html#latest</a></p>
<p>I would not take the test scores for granted. At least in my case, my plan score was not even close to the score I actually got (did much better on real thing, but it can go both ways). </p>
<p>Stats are good but ECs are weak. She really needs to do some stuff to set her apart from the competition. This might be quite uncharacteristic. Have her restore an old car or something like that.</p>
<p>Yes, Woandering, she is a sophomore, and I know there is still plenty of time. I really love the suggestion of restoring and old car. She wouldn’t do that, but it has me thinking outside the box. I am going to see if I can help her brainstorm something interesting like this.</p>
<p>Rather than looking for activities that may appear to appeal to a particular college like Brown, I would encourage you to foster your daughter’s true interests and seek out colleges that best fit those interests and her personality. </p>
<p>Also, I agree with the other post, that NHS alone doesn’t carry much weight with highly selective colleges. My daughter’s high school NHS application was actually rejected, but she was accepted to her first choice college. </p>
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<p>Yes!!</p>
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<p>You daughter was rejected for NHS. Our son’s school is quite different --anyone with a 3.0 (which is 50% of the students) gets in. This makes NHS a joke, and I don’t see why anyone would even bother to join.</p>
<p>SoCal, our NHS has no set standards, but it’s not selective. About 40% of the class gets it. I’m still baffled why my D was rejected. Oh well. There would have been no room to list NHS on her common application anyway, but she is worried that her grandmother will wonder why she has no asterisk next to her name on the high school graduation program.</p>
<p>Lindagaf, you should submit some of your D’s art to <a href=“http://www.artandwriting.org/”>http://www.artandwriting.org/</a> or <a href=“http://www.youngarts.org/”>http://www.youngarts.org/</a> </p>
<p>Thanks again everyone, all useful replies. </p>