Since Hindsight is 20/20, What Would You Have Done Differently?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>This question is directed to Parents of students at music schools, and Students at music schools and it's aim is to help those on this board who are trying to understand how to get their arms around the monster that is a successful run at finding, applying and auditioning for a music school. Many of us have told of "successes" and what "not to forget to do," but I'm sure many of us have things we would have done differently had we known better. This thread is the place to make your "true confessions" for the sake of others.</p>

<p>So, I'll start. Now that we've been through the process and have the wisdom of hindsight, what would we have done differently?</p>

<p>The answer is pretty straight forward, I would have worried less and done more homework in the early, planning stages, in our case fall of junior year. </p>

<p>We were the first of any of our friends to go through this undertaking and had precious few resources to tap. I just wished that I had looked a bit harder during that fall season into different, lesser-known schools to alleviate the fear of "what happens is DD doesn't get in anywhere?" As time passed we learned of many great schools out there and the thoughts of "She's not going to get in anywhere" quickly faded away, allowing the process to go from pure white-knuckle stress to just plain stressful, which was a significant improvement.</p>

<p>My $0.02... What's yours?
Zep</p>

2

<p>As a parent, I can't think of anything I should have done differently. My D did several things the hard way. First, she waited until Fall of senior year to finally admit that she wanted to pursue conservatory-level music along with science academics. That gave her very little time to prepare for auditions. If she had decided even a few months before, she would not have been so stressed and she would have had more successes on her auditions. Second, my D refused to consider schools outside of the northeast. She would have had a lot more good choices if she had not been so limited. The bottom line would not have changed. She was lucky and was admitted to the best fit.</p>

<p>We would have been lost without emom. My W had the time and interest to keep track of everything: all the applications, audition schedudes, travel arrangements, etc. Nothing fell through the cracks, but was a warning for others, I will say that a lot of time was necessary.</p>

3

<p>I agree, Zepp. D ended up at a great school (Oberlin) and is enjoying it very much. But the whole process was more stress-producing than it needed to be because she did not really apply to any true safety schools, both financial (in terms of need-based aid) and in terms of admissions. There are some good, young teachers at some excellent in-state state schools that would have made great choices. I wish we would have visited more of those along with the "biggies." I kind of wish that when she was making the final decision about which way to head, there was also on the table a full-ride "plus" in a lesser known studio which regularly produces students who go on to excellent grad schools and then symphony employment. She visited a school like this early in the process, almost immediately rejected it, and wanted to visit only the more "romantic" choices. Having her apply to that school would have reduced the level of stress in the process of auditioning and waiting for those results, and perhaps prevented some gray hairs on my part when the financial offers (and non-offers!) began rolling in. </p>

<p>I think that when we started the process, I didn't understand that a safety needs to be a true safety - finanical and admissions. It is really quite a feeling to be auditioning among dozens of students for just a couple of spots, and when the reality of all that really sinks in (sometimes right about the time that the first waitlist/rejection arrives) it would have been helpful to know that there is a really acceptable actual offer available, as unattractive as it seems when comparing it with brochures of the name schools one has always dreamed of and with listening to folks say that she is perfect for this or that name school and it is perfect for her. There is a bit of a disconnect between those two realities when it all comes down, and it really didn't become apparent to me until the process was almost over.</p>

4

<p>We dithered during daughter's sophomore year on when to change her teacher. The one she had was good, but not great and, in retrospect, she probably could have used a better teacher several months before we noticed. He was also a really nice guy who came to our house for lessons and needed the work, so we found it hard to tell him that she was moving on. That delayed things a couple of more months.</p>

<p>By the start of her junior year, we were driving four hours round-trip for a two-hour lesson every other week. We should have started doing that at least six months sooner.</p>

5

<p>I'm sure this will raise plenty of eyebrows, but I would have practiced less and spent more time relaxing and making reeds. In preparation for college auditions, I was practicing roughly six hours per day, and my schedule only allowed me to do so in one sitting. This was not healthy, mentally or physically - I was so burnt out by the end of college auditions, after three months of that schedule, that the thought of playing the bassoon nauseated me up until around a month before school started. Plus, lousy reeds caused much unneeded stress for two of my four auditions...which, in retrospect, could have been avoided by simply making more of them. I am now coming to realize, with the enormously increased workload that comes with college, just how inefficiently I practiced. I probably could have gotten the same results by doing around three hours per day.</p>

6

<p>I think as parents WE did everything we could to help. I know if DS had it to do all over, he would have auditioned on campus at all 7 schools. He did so for 6 and had a private audition (very unusual and lucky circumstance) for the 7th but had to send in an audition tape for scholarships. It was the only school where he didn't get a scholarship (except NEC which is notoriously thrifty with undergrads). DS would also have memorized all of his solo audition pieces (or so he says...he is doing that for grad school).</p>

7

<p>I am kind of in the same boat as Bassdad. In retrospect, we should have changed teachers between freshman and sophmore year in high school. He was a very nice guy, very flexible, and needed the job. If I had known then what we all know now, son would have had a different private teacher. As it is, he stayed with his private teacher until end of junior year when that one left the area. We found a good teacher for senior year, but that teacher didn't want to change anything major during an audition year (good call on his part I think) so senior year was kind of a maintainence year. Son was still accepted into the studio of the teacher he most wanted so it wasn't a huge issue, but son feels that he went in to school with many deficits that he likely would not have had if he had had a higher level teacher in high school.</p>

<p>We did have excellent guidance on the auditon process so that was helpful. If your child is headed the conservatory route, I don't think it is ever to early to start taking lessons with various teachers. Son actually had his first one in spring of his freshman year! It helped to spread out the process and gave us lots of time to consider options. Son ended up in the studio of the teacher he had the lesson with in 9th grade.</p>

8

<p>I would have picked up a trumpet instead of a clarinet when I was a little kid in 6th grade.</p>

9

<p>Interesting question, Zepp. The only thing we might do differently if we had to do it again would be to start sooner. Part of the problem was that DH couldn't seem to take seriously the fact that DS wanted to major in composition, even though DS had been taking private composition lessons for two years. DH kept making "cute" comments about other majors, and DS kept blowing him off. Meanwhile, I was on-line and at the bookstore looking up which schools offered the best comp. programs. DS got his applications in on time, but then had the bad luck of breaking his thumb where it connects to the hand in a skiing accident over Christmas vacation. That killed any idea of auditioning on piano, at least any time before April, and that therefore changed his list of potential schools. He was fortunate to find a school that "felt like home" (Peabody) which didn't require a piano audition, so what could have been a total disaster turned out to be manageable. Still, knowing now what we didn't know then, I would encourage him to start the audition process a lot earlier in the year!</p>

10

<p>I can't wait till I am the one offering the advice instead of anxiously receiving it.</p>

<p>My son, on the other hand, has no anxiety whatsoever, and his confidence actually worries me!</p>

11

<p>Great topic!</p>

<p>Being in the fall of her Junior year, I hope to learn much from your advice on what we should be doing now.</p>

<p>So far the toughest thing is getting a handle on "safety schools". What the programs are like, the professors and what seperates one from another.</p>

12

<p>Biggest regret with D is not changing teachers earlier and not changing to the best no matter the driving time.</p>

13

<p>Ditto Bassdad, shennie, and smsmom. Son should have changed teachers sooner. We should have also considered Interlochen for his last year. As it turned out he had this realization near the end of his junior year. The week after school ended he took a sample lesson at the LAC/Conservatory in our state and liked the teacher, discussed the fact that he felt he could not stay in a holding pattern for a whole year with his current teacher and felt his high school schedule would not allow the amount of practice he felt he needed. He ended up going from the lesson to admissions to ask if he could start a year early. He knew this wasn't his dream teacher, but felt he would never get where he needed to be if he didn't make a change. He transferred after two years so his was not a normal audition experience. </p>

<p>The other thing we would do differently would be to have had a good recording of his complete audition program in case of emergency. He arrived at one of his transfer auditions with a high fever and stomach flu. He did the audition, but really had a tough time making it through. It was obvious that he was very ill and I am quite sure that the faculty would have much rather listened to a recording than be exposed to whatever he was carrying.</p>

14

<p>Great topic and great advice all around! It's encouraging to be receiving all this wisdom now at the beginning of junior year. We were lucky as far as the teacher upgrade was concerned; Fiddlekid's teacher insisted that she change teachers last spring (sophomore year) and now with six months of the new teacher under her belt, boy was that wise advice and a good decision. Like BassDad we too are doing a long trek every other week (5 hr round trip) but it is definitely worth it.</p>

15

<p>That brings up some questions. Since so many of you mentioned changing teachers. What signs were there that your child's old teachers was not good enough? How did you know of and that the new teacher would be better? What specifically is the new teacher able to accomplish that the old one could not.</p>

<p>I think we have a very good teacher, clearly the best in our area. But how would I know if a significantly better teacher were available 2 or three hours away?</p>

16

<p>By the grace of God, we accidentally did most things right. Not anything we can take credit for, since we were flying by the seat of our pants. I know S would have taken fewer APs and dropped some extraneous music programs earlier to free up his schedule. But that's only in hindsight - at the time, he did what we thought he needed to be doing.</p>

<p>Junior year we should have been a bit more scheduled about contacting teachers. As it was, it didn't work out to meet some of the teachers we wanted to. Some of our college visits were almost impulsive-seeming - by the time we organized everybody's schedules, we didn't have much forewarning for teachers, and they weren't available. The teacher he ended up with is one of those he didn't meet in advance. Has worked out better than anyone could have known, though.</p>

<p>Also found out the hard way that summer programs often require applications by January or February - or even in the fall! Ended up with a couple of second or third choices along the way because of missing deadlines.</p>

17

<p>Cross posted above with FlutemomLiz, so I'll adress her teacher question, too. </p>

<p>My S had a great horn teacher, but changed piano teachers a couple times. Once, the teacher just became unreliable. Once, the teacher moved. But the final switch came at my insistence. My S was quite put out with me because he really liked the guy. But I noticed that, where my S used to LOVE piano, he had become quite humble, acknowledging that he wasn't very good, refusing to play for folks, etc. His teacher was quite negative. S got very little praise, and a lot of criticism. S believed what teacher told him and took it to heart. Teacher wasn't interested in S's compositions - mildly tolerant, but critical of everything S produced. Teacher chose other kids for master classes. Ridiculed S's chances at colleges. </p>

<p>I also noticed that the teacher was trying to change S's style. Wanted him to sit still when he played, where S is a mover. Wasn't open to different interpretations. Was extremely protective of his piano - unreasonable for a student playing at this level. (Things like, did you wash your hands? If I let you play my grand, will you be careful?)</p>

<p>I saw and heard all this as I sat outside the lesson room. Perhaps because I am also a pianist, and knew what my kid could do, it colored my opinion. I put up with it for a couple years. Finally, I pulled him out against his will without having a new teacher to go to. (Which was necessary, because the teacher's group here will not allow one teacher to take a student who is a current student of another teacher.) Then I began calling teachers -- I called probably half a dozen before finding the right match. She was extremely well regarded, taught theory at a local Univ., has published her own compositions, has a wicked sense of humor, and absolutely loves my S and is one of his biggest cheerleaders. She was able to teach him a ton of theory, made jokes about the fact that horn and composition were higher priorities than piano, and championed his applications to top schools. </p>

<p>One of the few times in my life that S has admitted after the fact that I was right!</p>

<p>Progress, personality, and reputation are all things to be considered. I also personally believe in most cases that changing teachers, or having supplemental teachers (camps, etc) can be healthy.</p>

18

<p>FluteMomLiz
We were lucky that my daughter had a very good teacher wiith a philosophy of helping her students be the best they could be, and a keen sense of when it might be right to move on -- AND no particular ego issues bound up in all of that. Fiddlekid had been with her teacher for 7 years or so, and in her freshman year, when she began circling tentatively around the idea of becoming more serious about music, her teacher first tossed out the idea of changing teachers "in a year or so." She thought it would be good training for D to work with a different teaching style and felt that she should have at least two years with a new teacher before college/audition process. We deferred the idea for a year, and revisited it last spring. By that time, her (then) teacher had identified a couple of possibilities, and my D had experienced a master class with the teacher who would become her new teacher (though she didn't know it at that point). </p>

<p>D's new teacher is also an active performer as well as teacher, and her previous teacher felt this would be a valuable additional perspective. D auditioned for the new teacher's studio, was accepted, and her playing has grown by leaps and bounds, just in these first six months. Her new teacher has incredibly high expectations. D is putting in more practice time, working at a higher level and an accelerated pace, and she loves it.</p>

19

<p>FluteMomLiz -- For us, a decent safety would have been a place where D could have gotten a full-ride (actual offer) and where there is a teacher who consistently produces students who have gotten professional jobs right out of the studio, or who have gone onto placement in major graduate schools. This is not at all the same experience as going to a major conservatory or a major music school, but it is a way to get where one is going if the other doesn't work out. Also, if the difficulty is auditioning into a major studio because one has not had more advanced training, a year or two of "free" training in college (I'm assuming full-ride, which can be the case in these situations), while working through graduation requirements for "free," (especially if a university degree is also desired) can get someone ready to audition into a dream studio.</p>

<p>This seems to be especially important when need-based financial aid is a large factor. Not all schools practice need-blind admission. That can mean that a studio has a certain amount of money to "spend" toward new students in a year, and if your student is "too expensive" in terms of what they can get for a studio, they will choose someone else. Also, some schools will admit a student with high financial need, but will give mostly loans for aid, or not even come close to helping meet EFC by any means, making the admission theoretical for some families. (This can happen especially at out-of-state state schools which do not claim to meet full need for out-of-state students. The top applicant or two alone might be awarded significant merit aid, and no one else, and need-based aid is often given in terms of loans which might not come close to EFC even at that.) It can be helpful to research the admissions and financial aid policies of the places D applies if this is your situation. I wish we had taken the opportunity to do that before auditions.</p>

<p>Because financial circumstance is so much a part of our family's reality (S is severely disabled and takes most family resources), D tried very hard to keep an open mind about her situation and then weigh the realities of admission and financial reality to find the best balance. I'm very proud of her for not making her mind up before we got in all of the data, as that helped her be more able to let go of the ones that didn't work out, and to sift through the realities of her situation along with the dreams she had for what was theoretically "ideal." And it all worked out with a very fitting studio and financial aid that makes the circumstance practical. But, I still think that given our actual situation in real life, I didn't understand what a "safety" was in our case, or how much it would have helped to have had her apply to one, just to keep THAT particular option open as well. Your own mileage may vary, of course. This may only apply to our own rather idiosyncratic situation.</p>

20

<p>Daughter would frequently go through phases where her playing would advance rapidly for a while then hit a plateau where she consolidated what had been learned before the next major advance. When the advances began to get farther apart and the plateaus longer, that was a sign.</p>

<p>When daughter first got interested in the possibility of being a performance major, she asked her current teacher about starting in on the required audition pieces. Being the no-nonsense type she is, she meant that she wanted to start right then at the current lesson. Her teacher said that he would have to work them up himself first. That was another sign.</p>

<p>When daughter would go to summer programs and workshops and come back talking about how great the teachers there were, that was still another sign.</p>

<p>When her school orchestra director called one day and told us she had the talent to go to a major conservatory and suggested that we find her a better teacher, that was a sign in flashing neon letters.</p>

<p>We found the new teacher through the summer program she attended before junior year. One of the main reasons we were attracted to that particular program was that it included a couple of private lessons with Hal Robinson, the principal bass of the Philadelphia orchestra and one of the best players, teachers, and all-around great guys in the business. He used those lessons to introduce daughter to a whole new technique of playing that she would never have explored with her then-current teacher. As it turned out, that technique was very well suited to her physical size (which is average) and took advantage of her natural agility and finesse rather than relying on size and strength. She asked Hal for additional private lessons over the months of July and August and he agreed. The progress she made that summer was phenomenal.</p>

<p>Due to his obligations with the orchestra and his teaching schedule at Curtis, Hal just did not have time for her once September rolled around. We spent a good hour after her last lesson talking about potential teachers and where she would go from there. He gave us the names of a couple of NY Philharmonic members but told us that, even if their schedules would permit a new student, they were not as likely to continue with some of the technique that he had introduced. Then he gave us a list of a few of his best students at Curtis and suggested that we contact them in the order listed.</p>

<p>The name at the top of the list was Joseph Conyers who was then starting his final year of college. Hal reasoned that someone who had auditioned so successfully a few years before would have some valuable insights to pass along. Apparently Hal had also spoken with Joseph about this because, when we called, he was quite enthusiastic about starting lessons. I sat in on the first lesson and came away convinced that this young man was going to be the right teacher for my daughter and that he would be making a name for himself. He is now the principal bass for the Grand Rapids orchestra and has been a finalist but not yet a winner in some very high-profile auditions for major city symphonies and opera orchestras. If anyone in Michigan is looking for the opportunity to catch a rising star for a teacher, he is on faculty at Grand Valley State University and Calvin College and probably accepts private students.</p>

<p>Joseph (with occasional input from Hal) was able to help daughter put together a short list of potential college teachers. Between the two of them, they were able to tell her a lot about what particular teachers were like and what they would be looking for in an audition. That was another thing that she could not have possibly gotten from her old teacher.</p>

<p>In order to find these kinds of teachers, you have to do some research and then be willing to make a few cold calls. If you live near a large city with a major symphony, try to contact some of the players in the section of interest. Take workshops and masterclasses with some of the best and don't be shy about speaking with them afterward. If daughter did not have the gumption to ask Hal for private lessons, we probably would have wound up with the best teacher in our area and she would likely be a math or physics major at a decent college with a pretty good orchestra. That would certainly not have been a disaster, but her life would certainly be much different than it is now.</p>