<p>Mark this ^^: “Back in my day, PA was considered a party school compared to PEA.” Here’s where it gets elitist. Exonians always have that “superior grind” chip on their shoulders. Perhaps it has served you well in life…I really don’t know. But I saw the same thing later at Hahvard, some (not all, I admit) people just cannot get over themselves.</p>
<p>Too funny PD!
Actually, I think Yalies have always known they have worked harder than those at Harvard. Quite possibly, the students at Harvard are proud of this, thinking that Yalies are pretty stupid to take it that seriously. I definitely noted a stronger intellectualism at Yale than Harvard back in the day…
But I do not consider this elitism, but rivalry, maybe between or among a bunch of elitist schools. “Splitting hairs”
Do not assume these rivalist stereotypes are always wrong!! “Where there’s smoke there’s fire”</p>
<p>I can only imagine how horrible it would be at PEA in my day with the current level of competition and pressures about getting into college. Now, THAT would have been unbearable, and quite possibly taking much of the joy and sense of freedom out of the learning there. So maybe they do have to let up, because of these ubiquitous external pressures.
I also wonder if there is not a backlash based on some disappointment about college acceptances after all that hard work…</p>
<p>p.s. I hope you do not think my post was arrogant. It was a genuine, frank description of how I ended up there and how it seemed. Sorry for the lack of censorship. If you knew me now, you would take back what you implied. I actually DID attend parties every time I went to Andover to visit LOL (it blew me away!) And we did not have coed cocktail parties in our rooms at PEA when I was there- I should have made a literal remark, so it did not sound like snark.</p>
<p>I’m an Exonian and I got it right away - rivalry - not elitist. It’s engrained, written in our enrollment contracts and required to graduate. :)</p>
<p>responding to the comment about how the pressure was manageable back in the day, but seems to be overwhelming now when we add in the pressure to get into college, put oneself on the road to 6 figure income, etc etc. </p>
<p>I think you’re on to something there. The kids can handle the self-imposed pressure, in fact welcome it, but when the parents/society join in, something goes wrong. There is another thread going on in the parents’ section about the “Race to Nowhere” - <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1138343-race-nowhere.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1138343-race-nowhere.html</a> - and if you’ll bear with an over-simplification, the conclusion I’m getting from it is that the kids actually have a lot of good sense when it comes to finding balance - but we don’t always listen to them. </p>
<p>from Performersmom - "I met all kinds of interesting kids from all backgrounds and from all over the world. I do remember a decent amount of feeling as if we were being sent off to lead with considered thought and humility and confidence. I guess that could be labelled as elitist. " Agree with the thought (and the rest of the post), no, don’t think it’s elitist - because the humility was everywhere. But there didn’t seem to be anything wrong with it - call it humility in the face of the clearly huge task ahead of us, but tempered with a confidence that we could tackle it. The important idea here is that the job was more important than we were. </p>
<p>I think that might be a useful construct - what is the job we are preparing the kids for. It is not the vocabulary we have come to use these days - it’s not about “me” - it’s not about “will I get credit, or the most credit, for doing this job” - it’s about “will the job get done right, and what can I do to help that happen”. </p>
<p>I keep coming back to Parlabane’s comment elsewhere, about the difference between “what can you do for me” vs “what can I do for you”. I can only speak for myself, but I want my kids learning the latter. Has more staying power, and brings more mental health in the long run. </p>
<p>But to make that happen, I have to take what increasingly feels like a flying leap into the unknown, stop worrying about their school and college’s brand name, and spend my effort making sure that their energy, their “run and find out” impulse, and their “finish the job” habits, continue and grow. </p>
<p>Bottom line, I have to get out of the way. I can model the behavior for them, I can on occasion ground them when the “finish the job” habit flags, but I have to get out of the way. And hope that at least some of their friends’ parents come to the same conclusion, so they won’t have to feel like the lone ranger out there.</p>
<p>@jmilton: I don’t think any student that Exeter has identified to be able to handle the academics there will “break” purely due to the academic rigor there. Everyone should have no problem meeting the minimum requirement for graduation being a regular student (take the courses you feel “in control”, do homework, go to tests, etc.), and remember the passing grade is D. It is the students who are driven to excel that load themselves up and “choose to” live a stressful life. Academic rigor is the hallmark of a school like Exeter. Going back to the private school as a business model, that’s the product they differentiate themselves from others and offer to a particular “market segment”. </p>
<p>@performersmom: Jokes aside, I hope today’s Exeter is not that much more “rigorous” than Andover, which already has a reputation for having abundant “overachievers” dealing with huge amount of work. That could be “too much”. I agree that the competitiveness of college admission, which was largely a non issue for top BS students in old days, makes it a lot harder on top of everything else.</p>
<p>@ssacd: When you send your kids to BS, unless you try hard to “stay relevant”, you’d find youself quickly “out of the way”. 
While I agree college is a huge factor attributing to the high pressure top BS students are enduring, I don’t totally agree on the notion that parents are the major ones to blame. The process itself is getting more competitive everywhere, and like it or not, everyone, students or parents, are more “name aware”. Is it just a matter of parents getting over it? I’ve heard so many students talking about their high school years regretfully, saying they should’ve “been more focused”, “worked harder”, “known the process earlier”, etc. etc. Being an “enlightened” parent doesn’t solve every problem.</p>
<p>@DAndrew, in post 38, you asked, “So, if the school culture, or the “mainstream” idea is over-achieving, how can one be comfortable being a slacker?”</p>
<p>You know, there is a middle ground. :)</p>
<p>I’ll also quibble with the terms you’ve set. “Over-achieving.” “Slacker.” </p>
<p>How does a student know if he’s over-achieving? Because he’s exhausted? Because she has more work than time? Because he believes he’s over-achieving, and the students and teachers believe they’re over-achieving? All the tippy-top boarding schools are rigorous. I believe Deerfield and SPS have tinkered with their schedules to encourage their students to get more sleep. (correct me if I’m wrong.) Rigor isn’t an on-off condition. </p>
<p>How do you measure schools’ relative levels of rigor? I would differentiate the level of academic expectations from, hmm, the students’ average sleep debt. I am not convinced that the students who consistently cheat themselves of sleep are necessarily more advanced, more productive, or receiving a better education.</p>
<p>Yes, I agree there are a whole array of varities between the “broken” and the “slacker”. I was just ask a question I thought crtics might ask and it was a “worst scenario” talk. </p>
<p>Rigor of course is not a patent of Exeter’s. Other schools are rigorous too - in different ways and extent. As for level of rigor, I am not sure it has a direct relationship with amount of sleep students have, but I think bright kids + proper but more than comfortable amount of “stretching” + great teachers is a good formula for academic excellence.</p>
<p>Scacdad,
Your comments about my description of how I felt we were being sent off by PEA to do something are amazing. Strange, I wrote something out of my deep memory of PEA, more guarding against the fear of being flamed for elitism. But you saw something very important that you put words to. YES. Thank you!</p>
<p>What is the purpose of education?? What is the mission generally? of each institution? PEA did see its role as a gathering and training place for GOOD leaders, coming from all segments of society, a moral and humble intelligentsia, with a RESPONSIBILITY to do good and to do well by and for others. Their responsibility to society was to train and inspire students’ intelligence that was a gift and a burden- to be used for the common good.</p>
<p>You are so right- the college race does feel so empty and gamed and selfish. It promotes HUBRIS, rather than CONFIDENT HUMILITY and an orientation to do for others and see oneself as a part of a larger community to be served.
The consumerist culture, the competitiveness, the high cost of education, the individualism rampant in our society is being reflected in a fairly ugly way in the college race.
Do we really want our kids to adopt the values imposed by this race?
We do value hard work in our house, because talent is wasted otherwise, and everyone owes that to both themselves and to those around them. We do value balance, and also value achievement. We do value humility and modesty. We do value team-work and personal responsibility. We hope for self-examination. But, you are so right, the fact that high school can feel all about winning, about getting (and getting in!) is pretty decadent. Achievement is great, but maybe not just for its own sake.</p>
<p>Perhaps, most ironically, we have ended up with this selfish pursuit because of the PC emphasis on who is or is not entitled, and removing obstacles. So it starts to seem more like a race for individuals to compete in, than a process of self-discovery and growth in relation to the community and to one’s society. Obviously, the record high numbers of individuals competing from a variety of backgrounds has also necessitated a reduction to standardized comps (GPA’s and tests scores), and holistic admissions then attempts to honor the individual, one would hope? in his/her relation (not just comparison) to his/her group and society, but it is an impossible task. The competitors inevitably see it as a zero-sum game for themselves against other individuals. </p>
<p>How does society benefit from this college arms race or game of individuals pitting themselves as achievers against each other? What approach would be better for society? How could that be implemented? Is everyone meant for every college or university? Maybe some are more suited for a certain type of education than others, to certain educational missions… Certainly, PEA is a hard place to enjoy or be successful in or to benefit from if the student is not aligned with certain interests and values.</p>
<p>Have the schools themselves also lost their way in adhering to a missions that are special and good for society?</p>
<p>I really felt while my 2 D’s went through their private local K-8 school, WOW- this is not an institution dispensing values (indirectly and directly) to their students anymore. This is a business. [and what values is that conferring inadvertently?]
It reminds me of how little respect society and little value the economy have for teachers generally…
And of how little respect and value we have for full-time parents…</p>
<p>Now the college race is in our faces- a huge distorter.
But how to improve and change this approach?</p>
<p>Funny thing, one of my D’s is very interested in Educational Policy and a number of other kids of fellow CC’ers and kids of teachers we know are, as well. This may actually be the beginning of a healthy process of self-examination, possibly a seed for change.</p>
<p>When we picked the BS for our D2- it was the soul and values of the place that pulled us, including my D. It has not disappointed. </p>
<p>But you are so right, these boarding schools are in a bind, too. It is incredibly hard to fly blind! Hey, I am guilty! I complain that they are not playing the college game enough (deny that their acceptance rates are declining at top schools, start the process too late with kids, do not look at the students holistically and support each one in the process, do not ask the kids to consider what their passions are, do not allow them to be unique and creative in their activities, do not offer test prep…), yet I do want each school to preserve and honor its special mission, to confer that special soul-ful-ness. So how can we have it both ways!!!</p>
<p>You are so right, we have lost our way. At this point, our kids at any school anywhere may get lucky and have one great teacher or adult in their lives who can play this role. But that is not likely.
Thank you for sharing your POV, and reminding me of what is important!</p>
<p>I do see parents as part of the problem. Every day I’m hearing about students who are getting pressured by their parents to have “perfect” grades in their initial years even though boarding school alum know that’s very hard to do even for students coming from great school backgrounds. </p>
<p>A while back we used to hear terms on this board about “return on investment” from parents with IVY stars in their eyes. And there was an Asian student who was at risk because her father insisted that if she didn’t double up on hard-core courses and aschew humanities, she’d be a failure when it was time to matriculate.</p>
<p>We’ve frequently told parents to “get out of the way” and allow their students time to grow and fail and learn from their mistakes. There is a reason why colleges and BS Adcoms cringe about helicopter parents.</p>
<p>Some degree of guidance is a good thing - but like those parents whose student play in a sport (think Little League for example) and are later in the paper for threatening the coaches - it’s possible to “think” we’re coaching lightly when in fact we’re heaping on extra pressure on students who are already driven.</p>
<p>So - when sending a student to a pressure cooker school (or other) - the most important aspect of parenting is support - not secondary college advisor. Those years go by quick and a care package goes a lot farther than a lecture.</p>
<p>But let’s also confess that a certain percentage of students at Exeter (and many other boarding schools) are there not because they chose to be, but because family expectations put them there. Those students were the ones who tended to “act” out, “stress” out, or drop out the most.</p>
<p>My interaction with my alma mater suggest they do enjoy their current reputation and work hard to maintain it.</p>
<p>an interesting reply to that article in the Exonian:
[The</a> Exonian](<a href=“http://theexonian.com/2011/05/05/opinion/slipping_into_depression]The”>http://theexonian.com/2011/05/05/opinion/slipping_into_depression)</p>
<p>All,</p>
<p>Here are excerpts from the chilling Exonian op-ed piece (Slipping Into Depression May 5, 2011) referenced in the above post. No person of good conscience should ignore, minimize, or elide either the troubling facts this op-ed recites or the compelling conclusions it draws about the depression and anxiety that can arise from the “culture of competition and pressure” at Exeter.</p>
<p>Slipping Into Depression</p>
<p>… I know that there are current Exonians reading this who are suffering from depression or anxiety, or both. I know this because 25 percent of Exeter students see counselors, and there are even more than that who could probably benefit from it. The next time you walk into math class and sit down, look around the table. At least three people seated there are currently seeing a counselor. That’s three too many—practically an epidemic—and though it will never be possible to completely wipe out mental illness and suffering, there are ways to reduce its risk and prevalence.</p>
<p>It’s amazing what people will risk for perceived status. That is a totally appalling statistic - 25% of the student body?! If I were a prospective parent, and that stat turned out to be true, I’d be out the door in the blink of an eye. That’s some pretty serious kool-aid folks are drinking to think that’s a good environment for an adolescent. I don’t give a pooh that the School has slightly better college admit stats or slightly higher SSAT’s. I mean, really, who cares?</p>
<p>As someone stated before, Exeter doesn’t have the monopoly on hard work or high expectations. It would be interesting to be able to compare across schools what percent of the student body is seeing a counselor due to stress.</p>
<p>However, I think the last paragraph here in this second article makes the point. Somehow achievement and “being the best” is equated with Saturday classes and working to the point of exhaustion. Again, I don’t think anyone has ever really proved that overstudying and working oneself into the ground leads to success let alone happiness.</p>
<p>It’s okay for the school to cultivate a love of learning and set high expectations to do one’s best and work up to one’s potential, but then giving the impression that you can only do this by working yourself to the bone is misleading. Who’s at the helm? Do they understand this?</p>
<p>:D jmilton = Andover Agent. :D</p>
<p>pulsar, do you see how paranoid and aggressive (-ly anti Andover) you are getting? What happened with you and Andover really? It must’ve been a very bad breakup. ;)</p>
<p>:D DAndrew = Andover Agent. 
Totally based on your posts.</p>
<p>@Jmilton</p>
<p>This will be the last time I post this on these boards before I contact the moderators. You don’t have the right to post excerpts of a copyrighted article without permission of the organization or the author. You can paraphrase or refer to something you’ve read, but you can’t post them verbatim.</p>
<p>Exie,</p>
<p>Actually, the fair use doctrine (17 U.S.C. § 107) permits the reproduction of copyrighted works under these circumstances, since the "purpose and character of the use … is for nonprofit educational purposes, only limited excerpts were used, and the op-ed in question has no measurable market value. If you want to discuss this further, send me a pm. That way we won’t sidetrack this thread with a legal discussion that most folks may find exceedingly tiresome.</p>
<p>I have read these posts and this is just my simple thoughts. For me there is a reason I chose Exeter over other schools. I didn’t choose Exeter because it was the “best” and “monoply school on hard workers”, i chose it bc I felt it was the best for me. I can care less what a stupid forbes magazine or other students say at the school, because to me as a student Exeter will never “fall into the irrelevance” and I am sure for many other students. </p>
<p>Now don’t get me wrong, in my opinion I still think Exeter is arguably one of the best boarding schools in the world. Why? For one the school posseses a high endownment which allows for high quality educational facitialies and not to mention the superb academic staff. Second- Exeter offers one of the most generous financial aid. Third- diversity in my opinion makes the school amazing. I understand the alumni’s feeling that the school might have changed for the worse, but I disagree. By meeting different people we gain the chance to see the lives of others and gain knowledge we cannot from books. Afterall aren’t schools more than academics. Weren’t schools created to educate the person as a whole spiritually and academically. To be honest I’d love to an ivy league college, but I’d sacrifice that oppurtunity if I can truly learn something meaningful in a diverse and academic enviornment that will make me a better person</p>
<p>sorry for rambling. I just dislike all this critism about Exeter about them lessening one school day</p>
<p>Might be fair use, but it seems to me to be just wrong to continually make so much of op ed articles in a student newspaper, and again, to ignore the many voices of students and parents who are saying that those articles are almost always expressing an extreme viewpoint. Please, if you’re going to read and post Exonian articles, read the whole paper–and preferably for two weeks. Inevitably, you will see an article arguing the exact opposite view. I’ve come to appreciate the whole thing as part of the argument and counterargument that is Harkness. </p>
<p>And as an Exeter parent who read that article yesterday, I felt more relieved to know that counseling services are offered to all students who might need them (for, I’m sure, a variety of reasons) than frightened by the statistic. Students see counselors for a variety of reasons. Exeter isn’t the only place where teens get depressed or stressed or just need an empathetic adult to talk to. In most places, though, resources are way too scarce to meet all the need.</p>