"Slipping into Irrelevance: When Exeter Reduces Rigor" - What do you think?

<p>Classical - if true, the fact that 25% is of the student body gets counseling for anxiety or depression is an utterly damning statistic. I am seriously shocked. I hope the Exonian got it wrong.</p>

<p>I am beginning to feel like a pi</p>

<p>Jmilton,
25% in counseling does sound high.
However,

  1. what % are in counseling nationally at any point in HS?
  2. what % at a variety of HS for comparison?
  3. is the counseling all for situations referred to in article caused by pressure/workload??
  4. is the number accurate for PEA?</p>

<p>Yes, it is very important for us all to question the level of pressure and the workloads in HS, at a given school, at our child’s school. And to take care of our children.
Yes, this essay was published in an official newspaper of a certain school, so it is an interesting signal.
BUT it is important not to tar PEA with this without more context.</p>

<p>I have no idea how many kids are in counseling at my D’s schools. Do you know what the figure is at your child’s school? The numbers at local HS are probably impossible to get so as to include private counseling and therapy, and I wonder how many schools would even give out these figures, so this is a moot exercise.</p>

<p>But let us not assume the worst.</p>

<p>It is interesting. At my D’s BS, the format of the newspaper is much less “professional” or college-like than Exeter’s. It is a series of articles accompanied by photos and art-work by the student staff and student editors who write about fairly innocuous things most of the time (how the food is in the Dining Hall; interviews of the new teachers), sometimes about personal developmental experiences (getting used to being away from home; making a good friend; growing to love the school), and occasionally there is one person’s take on a controversial Administrative decision or action. But there is not such a sophisticated forum at Exeter’s. I doubt there would be much of an opportunity for a piece like that.</p>

<p>Does the PEA administration vet the content of the newspaper before allowing it to be published? Would it notice an incorrect statistic about the school??</p>

<p>Anyway, having counseling available is wonderful. Teens get into all sorts of situations even without a heavy workload!!</p>

<p>I believe that the Content of the Exonian is reviewed by the faculty advisors before going to press. (This is a little different from the Phillipian, where the advisors comment after publication—it’s an editorial independence thing.) If I have this wrong, please correct me.</p>

<p>Other opinion articles in that Exonian issue and the prior one are also interesting: one student frets about Exeter’s decline in Forbes 2010 ranking, another talks about her anorexia, and so on. </p>

<p>I have no direct knowledge of Exeter. I do know that my daughter at a peer school gets way too little sleep, has a ridiculous work load, and has extracurricular commitments that take up an insane amount of time. For some kids, it’s not a great way to live. For others, it works.</p>

<p>performersmom,</p>

<p>Thanks for your thoughtful comments and interesting questions. </p>

<p>Perhaps one of the educators or mental health professionals on this thread can break down the percentage of students who obtain psychological counseling for academic stress related symptoms at both public and private high schools. </p>

<p>Given the sensitive nature of this topic, I would imagine that much of this data is not readily available. However, it would certainly be interesting to examine whether this problem is more pronounced at highly competitive prep schools. </p>

<p>Although the Exonian op-ed piece does not cite its sources, it appears to be written from the writer’s personal knowledge. Thus, it states, “I know that there are current Exonians reading this who are suffering from depression or anxiety, or both. I know this because 25 percent of Exeter students see counselors, and there are even more than that who could probably benefit from it.” </p>

<p>The author discusses this depression and anxiety in the context of academic stress resulting from Saturday classes, late night studying, long papers, etc. The author also proposes that “more free time” (i.e., less Saturday classes, etc.) is an important way to improve the quality of life at Exeter.</p>

<p>Perhaps enterprising reporters from Exeter and other top prep schools will further drill down on this important story. In fact, your questions would be a good starting point for their investigation. Such an article in the Exonian would be an especially important contribution to the subject because the Exonian is an extraordinarily good student newspaper.</p>

<p>To put things in perspective, jmilton didn’t attend a BS, doesn’t have a child in BS, and seems to be waiting on the Andover’s waitlist. And she is worried about the stress at Exeter.</p>

<p>Pulsar15,</p>

<p>Thanks for your post. It is always nice to wake up to an ad hominem attack in the morning, especially one that confuses fantasy with reality with such stunning effrontery. </p>

<p>No, I have no connection to the Andover wait list. And it is shameful for you to fabricate a suggestion to the contrary. I am a parent with a child in a demanding school who is concerned, like the other good folks on this thread, about the epidemic of academic stress that afflicts children at high schools throughout the country. </p>

<p>As I don’t want to jump to conclusions, perhaps you could clarify posts you made on or about March 10, 2011, which seem to strongly suggest that Andover wait listed or rejected your child, since I surmise that you are an adult.</p>

<p>This will be my first and last post to you on this thread. If you want to continue this discussion, please send me a pm. I am sure the other folks on this thread would appreciate it if you don’t sidetrack this important discussion with more risible fabrications and personal attacks.</p>

<p>I also hope this will be my last post on this thread. This posting business is frankly more trouble than its worth!</p>

<p>Parlabane,</p>

<p>And I’d be shocked right along with you. But what I know, for a fact, is that there are lots of different reasons why kids get counseling. And that, based on my own kid’s expereince IN his dorm and IN the classroom, 25 percent of the kids are NOT seriously depressed. That’s not what the original writer said either. Not sure where she even got the stat. from–there’s no reference in the original article.</p>

<p>Pulsar15,</p>

<p>Thanks for your post. It is always nice to wake up to an ad hominem attack in the morning, especially one that confuses fantasy with reality with such stunning effrontery. </p>

<p>No, I have no connection to the Andover wait list. And it is shameful for you to fabricate a suggestion to the contrary. I am a parent with a child in a demanding school who is concerned, like the other good folks on this thread, about the epidemic academic stress that afflicts children at schools located throughout the country. </p>

<p>As I don’t want to jump to conclusions, perhaps you could clarify posts you made on or about March 10, 2011, which seem to strongly suggest that Andover wait listed or rejected your child, since I surmise that you are an adult.</p>

<p>This will be my first and last post to you on this thread. If you want to continue this discussion, please send me a pm. I am sure the other folks on this thread would be appreciate it if you don’t sidetrack the important discussions they are having with more risible and frankly outrageous fabrications. </p>

<p>I also hope this will be my last post on this thread, since this posting business is frankly more trouble than its worth!</p>

<p>I tried to sub. this for my Parlabane post above, but must have gone beyond the 20 min. window.</p>

<p>the original writer did NOT say that students were in counseling for anxiety or depression. There are many reasons why students seek short-and long-term counseling.</p>

<p>From what my son has told me, I think Lemonade is right about Exonian articles being reviewed and vetted ahead of time, which would suggest that the stat. about counseling is probably accurate. </p>

<p>Here’s an interesting study by the University of Minnesota, which shows that 39 percent of all teens suffer from “mild to severe depression.” I’m not trying to whitewash the issue–just pointing out that it’s a pervasive problem, and I’d have more issues with a school that wasn’t dealing with it than one that is.</p>

<p>[Adolescent</a> Stress and Depression](<a href=“http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/youthdevelopment/da3083.html]Adolescent”>http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/youthdevelopment/da3083.html)</p>

<p>All students are required to take health their first year at Exeter, and they get to know the counseling staff through those classes, which might make it easier to stop by to talk when they need it. It’s possible to interpret this stat. as Exeter doing the kind of personal “parental” support so many posters say doesn’t happen enough at the big boarding schools. I know that when my kid is worried about something, he’ll often go to his adviser to talk things over, much as he would talk to us at home. It wouldn’t surprise me to know that other students who don’t have a close relationship with their adviser might use counselors that way.</p>

<p>Would agree that it’s NOT PEA that <em>causes</em> the depression/anxiety, although the intensity of the community might exacerbate it. Josiah Bunting’s (former L’ville Head) All Loves Excelling would lead one to believe he was well aware of this dynamic at L’ville, and the anthropologist who did the book on Pomfret (Perfectly Prep) noted significant legitimate prescription drug use for all kinds of modern day maladies.</p>

<p>My final word on this whole thread: Caveat emptor. Know your child, and know the school. And stay involved.</p>

<p>Amen, Pelican Dad. Exeter is a wonderful place for my older child, full of the good challenge and, yes, even stress that promotes growth in intellect and character; I wouldn’t even consider it for the next one, on whom it would have the opposite effect.</p>

<p>jmilton Quote:

May be you want to read your earlier post again. [post=12421810]Click Me![/post]</p>

<p>You sound more like your S/D is rejected by Exeter</p>

<p>Give it a rest Pulsar. You were just beginning to be likeable. Sometimes the snark - out of context - can be mean spirited. If you’re really attending a BS next year - it’s time to change the attitude and get with the program. Sincerely, secret santa.</p>

<p>@jmilton - all bull hockey legal arguments aside - there’s a take an inch, take a mile problem on these boards where once the issue is out of the bag, we’ve seen entire contents posted here verbatim without copyright permission. So better to err on the side of caution, than on the side of condoned violations - especially when dealing with minors.</p>

<p>Exie,</p>

<p>Thanks for your support. I hope we never reach the point on CC where people can’t ask innocent questions without the fear of others drawing false inferences from them. The great irony is that I support Exeter’s efforts to balance the unquestionable benefits of academic rigor against the undeniable detriments of excessive academic stress. </p>

<p>As to the fair use doctrine, I believe that it does apply to the non-profit educational excerpting of limited passages from a student op-ed that has no commercial value. Moreover, I think it should apply under these circumstances because it judiciously allows an author’s words to speak for themselves without becoming lost in translation as others paraphrase or parse their meaning. </p>

<p>Except for the author’s assertion that 25% of the students at Exeter receive counseling, all of the excerpts contained in my original post were unfortunately deleted without my permission. Some of these excerpts contextualized the widespread need for student counseling at Exeter against the backdrop of the academic rigor students face there. Other quoted the author’s support for Exeter’s efforts to provide more free time to its students and thereby minimize the need for counseling. </p>

<p>In my view, these deletions do far more harm than good. They deprive the readers of CC of both the context and the nuance of the author’s report of widespread counseling at Exeter. As a result, they inadvertently sensationalize, instead of provide balance, to this sensitive issue. </p>

<p>Exie, although we disagree, I respect your position and do not doubt your good intentions. So, let’s just agree to disagree about this fair use issue.</p>

<p>Extreme academic pressure, which I think is mainly brought on by the insane admissions processes currently in place at too many colleges, is definitely something to closely watch and defend our children from.</p>

<p>However, when I think of all the reasons students might be seeking counseling–parents divorcing, too much or too little attention from parents, coming to terms with sexual orientation, falling in/out of love for the first or fifth time, roommate problems, etc.–I honestly question whether reducing Saturday classes or easing up on workload is really going to dramatically reduce the number of students seeking counseling. </p>

<p>The reason I keep stressing the importance of reading the Exonian from week to week is that it will become clear that the too little/too much rigor, too few/too many Saturday classes op/eds are more an ongoing Harkness-style discussion than a mental health concern.</p>

<p>It is difficult to compare communities from the outside. There is a theory that some people turn to drugs and alcohol to deal with stress (and other issues.) Is 25% students receiving counseling (if true) high? I don’t know. It could also be that the student body is less likely than others to turn to illicit D&A, and more likely than others to seek adult help. I also remember in my college days, more students would have seen counselors, but there weren’t enough available to meet demand. </p>

<p>If I had to choose, and had all the facts, I would prefer a setting for my children with little or no D&A use.</p>

<p>Let’s brainstorm. What should Exeter do to reduce “depression and anxieties”? No more Saturday classes? Less and/or easier homework? Fewer or less strictly graded tests? 
 As for a “cutthroatly competitive” school culture, while there are many things that can be done does the school have to have a different kind of student body to make a significant change possible? In other words, if you could, what kind of Exeter would you want to make?</p>

<p>So let me understand this:</p>

<ul>
<li>Possibly 25% of the students get counseling for one thing or another - and some on this site think that makes sense</li>
<li>Some are actually gratified to see this high a percentage because it indicates the School is being responsive</li>
<li>Some worry it’s because of Saturday classes</li>
<li>Some worry it’s the cutthroat Type-A achiever nature of the kids</li>
<li>Some worry it’s the School culture</li>
<li>Exeter or an Exeter defender had unflattering excerpts from the School’s newspaper deleted from this site </li>
</ul>

<p>Outsider observation: it’s not the Saturday classes. Rather, it’s some sort of Exeter badge of honor, like Seal Team 6 training, some people can’t take it and have to ring the bell. I feel seriously bad for the kids, at least a quarter of whom are clinically miserable. Also, to have taken the time to delete newspaper excerpts from this stupid site tells me that Exeter or its fan club is worried enough about the mental health problems at the School to see the excerpts as a public relations/admissions problem (not a copyright problem). </p>

<p>As to steps that might mitigate some of the problem, I don’t think changing Exeter’s nature is smart. The academic/stress overkill is part of the School’s identity. If it was lost, Exeter would also lose part of its unique character. Instead, I would be candid with prospective families. I’d tell them the facts. I’d be sure the mental health implications of an Exeter choice were known. It IS like SEAL training - some people are going to wash out. If this was dealt with forthrightly, then applicants can make sound decisions. If anything, I think it will actually increase the desirability of the School.</p>