Been following this thread and learning so much. My D24 is so similar to what so many of you have described (though she seems a bit of rarity on this thread in that she is female and so many of these attributes seem to cluster in boys). I worry a lot about her wasted potential but am really coming around to the idea that all I can do is meet her where she is and try to guide. This, in particular, resonates:
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OP here! Last night I told S24 it makes a difference what you want to study because it changes how hard some schools are to get into, ie engineering and business programs can be harder. He said he likes math and I said well, maybe you should research math as a major. He thought I was crazy, didn’t believe one could even major in math. I said to look in the mailer he received that day and he found it.
That was the end of the conversation with him but DH and I talked about it later. We think it gives him a lot of options in terms of college choices and changing majors later on if he chooses, so maybe a good major for a still mostly undecided kid? Thoughts?
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Nicely done!! Math is a great major.
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I replied earlier in the thread that my son has a lot of similarities to yours. One piece of advice I have gotten here on CC repeatedly is that he doesn’t need to know what he’s going to study when he starts college. I think maybe you feel like I do that it’s one thing to not know exactly what you want to study, and another to have absolutely no idea at all in any direction, which is where my son was six months ago.
One of the things I have done over the past few months is talk to my son here and there about what tasks he likes to do in his current classes & what ideas he likes thinking about, what things he likes to do out of classes (“video games” 
) and what aspects of those activities he enjoys. I’ve asked him questions like what types of problems does he enjoy solving? I’ve given him options, if you had to do one of these things, A or B, which would you choose and why? None of that has generated any lightbulb moments for what he might want to study, but it has helped him think about the future a little more concretely. That is not something my S24 does naturally.
I have also talked with him about “productive activities“ and “consumptive activities”. He likes to play video games so much, but that is primarily a consumer activity, and you can’t make a living by consuming (generally). So, what about playing video games does he like? And are there ways that those aspects of video gaming he likes could be productive activities?
Finally, another thing that I have done is find some colleges that have pretty detailed descriptions of the courses you need to take for a major. Then (it was a lot of work!) I pulled together the class descriptions for each of those required classes for some majors he thought he might be interested in, but stripped the titles of the classes off so he didn’t get distracted by the department or the class title. I presented him with a handful of “anonymous” majors at a time over a few weeks, and asked him to rate them. I also asked him what about that major appealed to him, and what did he not like. I then used that information to choose some different majors that were a little bit like it or a little bit different. In the end, we have a ranking of 21 different majors. I don’t think it is a final result for him, but it did help him think more clearly about what it would be like to study different fields, and he encountered some fields that he never knew about that he’s starting to be excited about. (Linguistics courses, for example, were really attractive to him, and that is not something I would have ever thought to suggest.) Another thing I noticed is that he really preferred interdisciplinary majors over any major that was strictly one field.
So maybe having your son explore a bit what the 4-year course progression for a few majors would be helpful. I think that could be especially helpful if you think math might be of interest to him. My S23 though he would like math, but when he saw the proof-heavy upper level classes required at many schools for a math degree he realized he was actually interested in applied math, or even in a field that uses math as a tool, but doesn’t go so much into math theory.
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This is amazing - your kid sounds like my kid and I’ve made the same observation about productive vs consumptive. What I notice, related to the consumptive activities comment, is he doesn’t really quite get he has something to offer the world. He helps teach classes at martial arts and lead activities with Boy Scouts but he doesn’t enjoy it and doesn’t get why anyone would look to him as a role model. We pushed him into those roles. He doesn’t hate them, he just wouldn’t have ever thought to do them himself. When orchestra needed volunteers for hosting a big event - his sister had volunteered and I saw the volunteer list that included his friends, I asked why he wasn’t volunteering. It didn’t seem to have occurred to him, even though his friends were doing it.
You’ve done some serious work researching courses and I look forward to borrowing some of your tactics!
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Hmmm. For me, CC is mainly a consumptive activity…
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When S23 was a bit further along in the process and picked some schools that interested him based on his “thought” that he wanted to be a biomedical engineer, I pulled up the statistic that 1 in 3 college students change their major while working on their degree. Some statistics say 50%-70%. The statistics for engineering are that 50% will drop engineering altogether.
I made him pick out 3 other majors at each school that he might want to major in. Not only did this ensure he had options if he wanted to switch majors, but it also made him explore a few majors he hadn’t thought about. Some of the majors were other types of engineering or STEM majors and some were completely different such as public policy or natural resource conservation. Spoiler alert: By the time he applied, he realized that wildlife biology and conservation was a much better fit.
Not only did this exercise steer him toward a major that I feel he will be much happier in, it really made him aware that he was much more interested in larger (state) schools than small liberal arts schools or polytech/pre-professional type schools.
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Math or applied math can be great majors. Sometimes those kids drift toward Econ or other subjects that can be approached in a quantitative way. With a little CS knowledge those graduates are very desirable in many fields.
We know a kid who years ago was really inspired by the quant baseball guy in the movie Moneyball, thought he wanted to do that after college. Ended up in quantitative finance instead but still doing okay.
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You may also want to talk about LACs with broader distribution requirements. My kid (and I) liked the idea of a “forced exploration”, albeit broad and personalized, before picking a major and the idea of introductory courses that were meant to draw students into the major. Some kids hate this idea, but for one who is undecided, it’s a great opportunity.
It can help to know that’s an option – that finding a track right outside of the gate isn’t necessary. It’s really amazing how many students at schools with this arrangement end up doing sometimes different from what they’d originally imagined. At the same time, there are kids who think this sounds dreadful. But it’s all part of the discovery!
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Here is some math to self study. This is college math.
OP here with an update on S24. We took some advice and went on a couple of tours over spring break. We combined Furman and Clemson on a quick 2 day trip, to check out a small private college and a large public university. We parents liked Furman with the professors know your name kind of environment, for the same reason our kid did not. We felt like we could drop him off and he would be taken care of. Campus was safe and pleasant, everyone was nice, he wouldn’t be invisible and forgotten.
As far as Clemson, he didn’t say anything specifically positive but he had a strong preference for it over Furman. To be fair, the Clemson guide was great - very enthusiastic, funny, and relatable. He emphasized the sense of belonging and how it carries beyond the school itself. We heard his story of how he had chosen a different school until the very last few hours before the deadline and switched because he really felt Clemson was the place for him. So our son has since been noticing Clemson yard flags, shirts, etc. where ever we go.
Additionally, we signed him up for a couple of exploratory type camps this summer. One was a Boy Scout STEM camp at GA Tech, where the whole point was to expose them to STEM careers. He saw some very cool things at Choate (construction), TKE (elevator), Microsoft, behind the scenes at Mercedes Benz Stadium, and many more. Their schedule was crammed every day with at least 3 on-site visits, hands on activities (bridge building contest, for example), or presentations back at campus. It opened his eyes and he enjoyed being at GA Tech. Interestingly, it’s sinking in that he’s not likely to get in as he’s realizing he wants to get in, but it’s a win in that he’s connecting things and we saw a little competitiveness/fire in him.
He’s also doing Summer Seminar at USNA. We’re waiting for more feedback but so far he’s not loving it but he’s being exposed to people who are serious and striving for something. His normal peer group is smart slackers who try hard to look like they’re not trying. He liked the sea trials - they raced and they got dirty. How about that? We’re happy for him to get outside his bubble.
We’ll get him to look for a summer job once he’s back and to keep it up once school starts. I agree that there’s a lot of value in having a job. We’ll visit Auburn and U of Alabama in the fall. So far the plan is he’ll apply to UA early so he has that in his pocket. He should get big merit there - Presidential Elite if he keeps his GPA above 4.0 and assuming they’re looking at weighted. Then EA to Tech, UGA, and whatever else he wants. It possible he’ll form an opinion in the next 6 months, right? I know he wants something to brag about but he just wants to be recognized for his brilliance instead of realizing people value work. With no input from him, we feel like these are good options.
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My D went to Furman freshman year. She wanted a small school, but she actually found that it was too small for her. If your S isn’t all that interested to start with, I suspect it may not be a fit because he prefers larger schools.
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Very smart of you to take him to look at places. I know that schools are less busy in the summer, but it’s still worth it for you to make some more not too far trips this summer, if summer school is in session. You’ve got to keep in mind that he has done pretty darn well so far. I think that the large flagships with merit money will be perfect for him. Honestly, you may be worrying too much. He is young to go to college, but he’s very bright and a high achiever despite not putting in maximum effort. I don’t think that the profs are going to hold his hand in a small school and nag him to turn in his work on time. He will probably do just fine at the large state flagship, with merit. And who knows? Maybe he’ll get into Ga Tech.
Are there any other summer engineering programs that he could attend? I love that he’s getting a spark of interest from these. There are many, held at colleges all over. This may be worth more to him than the type of job that he could get this summer.
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My daughter is a rising junior at Clemson. I don’t know if she just got lucky, but her advisors have been amazing. She has an honors, business, and actuary advisor (he unofficially took her under his wing advising her on extra classes and pairing them with actuary exams, she just passed her first). She likes that everywhere she goes, people know her name and say hi. The sense of community is very strong, even with the parents (if your child needs anything, local parents will step in, even to sit in hospital waiting rooms).
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I have 2 kids at 2 large state schools, from 20,000 - 30,000 undergrads.
There are definitely ways to make large schools smaller, and I have been so impressed at how personal some of the professors are at my rising sophomore’s school. She did poorly on a test in a gen Ed class of about 250 other students. The professor not only emailed her and asked her to come talk, she also followed up after the next test to congratulate her on how much better she did.
It’s not the only example, but if he chooses a bigger school than you had hoped, know that all is not lost in terms of personal attention or accountability.
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Very true! I loved UT Austin. I tell people it’s like a big city with lots of small, vibrant neighborhoods. My favorite class was American History, which had over 300 students in it!! If I had skipped it because of its size, I would have missed out on a lot. I had some great conversations with the prof in his office. But he didn’t convince me to switch majors from engineering. 
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That is great to hear and it wasn’t just us getting matched with one enthusiastic tour guide. He was convincing! Of course, looking at recent Clemson admit data…yikes, we can hope he gets in!
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Thanks so much for the update; it’s great to hear that things seem to be moving in a positive direction!
Interestingly, I saw that Clemson was rated #1 on Princeton Review’s list of best college for career services. A little further down the list was Kansas State which also regularly gets named as one of the happiest student bodies, in case you’re looking for a safety that might have some of the characteristics he liked about Clemson.
Also, you might want to look to see if some of the colleges offer courses in career services.
Marist (NY) with about 5k undergrads does:
So does the U. of Wisconsin - Madison (big school, not a safety):
I’m just sharing these links as an additional idea of how different colleges are offering some opportunities for more guided support for students who might need some help in getting a direction.
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That Princeton Review list doesn’t seem especially useful for actual placement. It polled current students on their opinion of the college’s career services office. It doesn’t really measure outcomes, at least not directly. Knowing a lot of those schools well, and kids at those schools, their placements are likely not as competitive as other nearby schools.
That said, Clemson is a hot and rising school right now and I am in no way specifically disputing its inclusion or questioning the strength of its career center. I am just pointing out to the OP to be careful when reading a polled list to understand its basis.
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