<p>But she doesn’t HAVE poor HW or poor grades. So why assume a brain-based disorder when the therapist already noted what is going on?</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds exactly like me when I was in high school. I wouldn’t do the work, didn’t necessarily pay attention in all of my classes, but I still made all A’s and B’s. The problem was I never had any challenging classes throughout elementary/middle/high school (even counting all the AP classes I took!) and never developed study skills. I still graduated high school with something like a 3.7 or 3.8 (my high school had a weighted GPA but I think 3.7/3.8 is what it would have translated to on a 4.0 scale). I never really cared about grades etc because I was confident and knew I would get into college (and I did). It didn’t bother me until senior year when everyone asked/make comments about my being a valedictorian and I had to say that I was not a valedictorian. (Enter realization that I could have been if I had done all the work).</p>
<p>The lack of study skills threw me for a loop when I finally got to college and had to study for those A’s and B’s. But I figured it out and did fine in college–a good college as a science major in a pre-med curriculum (I was not pre-med, but my science major course load was designed around a course load for medical school requirements, my school has something like a 97% of pre-med students are accepted to medical school). </p>
<p>I think part of what helped me was that I chose to go to a small Catholic university where I couldn’t hide in the back of the room but was expected to contribute in class discussions, not just sit and listen to the professor drone. </p>
<p>Like your daughter I was not challenged in high school and was bored out of my mind 100% of the time. I remember my first week of college sitting down with classmates and having intelligent discussions about biology/science/politics whatever, not the lastest fashion choices/nail polish/who-is-dating-who type of gossip/topics of high school conversation. </p>
<p>Also, not doing the homework/participating in class (in some cases sleeping through classes) and still making better grades then my classmates in high school/and finishing tests in 20 minutes (classes were “block schedule” 1.5 hours long) only served further to fuel my I-don’t-have-to-do-the-work attitude and my own ego that I was smarter then my classmates. </p>
<p>I was also a high school student who knew exactly what I wanted to study in college before I even started high school, so I felt like 4 years of high school was a waste of time to me. </p>
<p>The point I am trying to make (although long-winded, sorry!) is that your daughter will probably be okay in college, although will probably experience a few rough patches. But she also sounds like she is internally motivated, like I was/am, and to not be challenged by a high school curriculum, as that kind of person, is…not motivating.</p>
<p>Our DD and I are very similar in our ADHD chacteristics. Since I am an educational therapist by training, I really felt that I had both the life experience and the compensatory strategies to assist her effectively. After nearly killing each other in her freshman year, we made three fabulous decisions:
- We paid an OUTSIDER (e.g. someone who specializes in life coaching for teens with ADHD - not a therapist - not a college counselor) to help her set goals that were meaningful to HER. We paid her a blistering $400 a month for four phone conversations and an ongoing email loop per month. I found her, but told our DD that we would only hire her if she wanted to. They hit it off, and I stepped completly out of the nagging checking and whining business for school items, freeing me to get our relationship back on the right foot as well as talk to her about other critical issues. It is easy to forget that academics is not in fact the be all and end all - don’t forget about ethics, drugs, alcohol, spirituality, sex, family relationships…Part of me said that she was a bit “relaxed” and wasn’t perhaps worth the money, but the other part said that for $400 a month I got my relationship back. How much is THAT worth??
-
I told DD that we would pay to visit ANY college she found interesting between her soph and jr year. Her response: ANY? Mine..."In the continental united states." Hers: Oh. The only requirement was that part of her "chores" on Sundays was to cloister herself in the office with me researching college options and figuring out what she wanted (we took away some other chores as otherwise time wouldn't have been there). The rule was she had to find 3 defensible colleges in one area to fly there. She found 3 in Boston, 3 in New York, and off we went! She took one look at college #3, and said "I don't care what I have to do - I want to go HERE." Abracadabra - the pressure is off me to motivate. We took several other tips along the same vein, and she ended up with a terrific well thought out list of colleges to apply to.<br> - In looking at colleges, I was very clear that she was the boss and I was her “research assistant.” She would tell me what she wanted in a college, or a piece of information she wanted, and I would find it. All of the decision making was her, but when (for example) I pointed out that 60% of a school was female, and 50% of the school was performing arts, all I had to do was ask her how many available heterosexual men she thought there would be and she quickly made a different choice. I think this strategy was very empowering for her, and again restored our relationship to healthy and fun. </p>
<p>Hope that helps!</p>
<p>And by the way, I am in the camp that says that as passion improves, and possible ADHD is managed more effectively, grades go up.<br>
My High School GPA: 3.2ish
My College GPA: 3.6
My Grad School GPA : 4.0
My Work Life Now: Very successful, although I do have an AWESOME secretary :)…</p>
<p>Thank you to all the replies and don’t apologize for being too long. This thread has made me feel much better. Wish you people were in my social group or worked in our school system. Everyone has been very helpful in making me feel like she isn’t just lazy.
Dual enrollment is offered at our school so maybe we should consider this option. Also, like the idea of looking at colleges this summer instead of waiting until summer of her jr/sr year.</p>
<p>I was like this, and my son is like this. I was a so-so student grade-wise at a not-very-demanding high school with a rigid curriculum, but I was fine when doing my own thing. I read voraciously, did a lot of art and creative writing, founded an organization in my community, and taught myself several languages on my own. But doing homework just because it was assigned was, to put it mildly, not a high priority, and grades didn’t motivate me in the least. I did good work only when I liked the teacher.</p>
<p>Because my test scores were high, I was invited to apply, and eventually accepted into, the Telluride Association Summer Program, a high-powered seminar in humanities and social sciences for students between their junior and senior of hs. For the first time I felt socially comfortable, and the material was taught at a pace I found exciting. Even though the seminar topic was not something I found particularly thrilling, I did really excellent work in a school-like setting for the first time.</p>
<p>In college, able to choose what I studied, I did much, much better than I had previously. I needed to learn study skills, belatedly, but I turned myself around fast once I had a goal in mind. Between my school experience and my experience in various jobs, I realized that while I am a disciplined, efficient worker when I am doing something I’m naturally good at or enjoy, and I have no trouble designing and executing complex projects on my own initiative, I have way less tolerance than many people do for busywork or alienated labor. I also don’t take well to being bossed around. Certain kinds of careers were therefore not going to be a possibility. I have, however, had a successful academic career, publishing widely and teaching at Research I universities.</p>
<p>My college-age son’s intellectual interests and natural talents are different from mine but he has a very similar personality and so far his life has followed an almost identical pattern. In his case, we sent him to the Center for Talented Youth summer programs to work on his math/science areas of interest, in his senior year of hs we arranged for him to take some undergraduate classes in his intended major at our local university. These were more advanced than AP courses and also taught as college courses by college faculty, not by hs teachers in a hs format. His performance improved dramatically even though the content was much more demanding, as he poured time, effort, and passion into his coursework for the first time. He, too, has had to learn to study systematically, and while he’s still not an absolutely straight-A student, he gets generally excellent grades in an interesting variety of difficult courses.</p>
<p>The worry with kids like this, of course, is that the eye-opening experience won’t occur, the lightbulb will never come on, and so the kid will continue to float through life never really finding a suitable niche. I have friends like this, now in their 50s. My advice to the OP is to look into options for enrichment that might encourage your D to develop her intellectual gifts and her flair for independent thinking in a non-school setting.</p>
<p>We visited college with my unmotivead (and it turns out ADHD-ish) D before junior year, hoping it would put some wind in her sails. In her case it didn’t work, but I still think it is a great idea that would work for many unmotivated teens. </p>
<p>My son was dragged along for college trips with big sister and had some early exposure. Our first big trip for him was spring break junior year, which was a lovely time to combine into CA vacation. That was great because the colleges were in session. The college may not end up being on “the list”, but the vibes with students on campus helps refine priorities. </p>
<p>For practicality, many college visits need to be done during summers and senior year. But I pass on the tip about junior year spring break because it was passed on to me by a frazzled mom with an older kid that criss-crossed the country spring of senior year.</p>
<p>I have a daughter who has always been mature for her age, and also hangs with boys. This has continued through college. </p>
<p>I agree with those who counsel evaluation for ADD (ADHD inattentive). One of mine was diagnosed after high school. I am almost 60 and was top in my class at high school, but I sure do with someone had picked up on the fact that I had ADD, at that point.</p>
<p>Along with only working on things that interest her, and the distractions from online networks etc., there does seem to be enough reason to at least consider it. There are questionnaires online that you can look at. A family MD won’t do much more than that: there is not objective test for ADHD. A neuro-psych. would do a more in-depth evaluation.</p>
<p>I am not trying to pathologize. These investigations can be presented to the student as looking into their interests and learning style, for positive reasons.</p>
<p>If this doesn’t sit right with you, then the other way to go would be to realize that there is nothing wrong with A’s and B’s. But it is always painful to not be able to do what you are capable of doing, and ADD is one such obstacle that can be identified fairly easily.</p>
<p>Full stop on the ADHD business. Depression is adolescence mimics ADHD to an extent due to the impact on mental energy. Becoming overabsorbed with technology is a further whammy. In order to make a diagnosis of ADHD you need to have had signs at an earlier age and these issues need to have significant impact on you. She may have had mild issues when she was young, from what mom said, but now there is more to it. Presumably whomever made the diagnosis of depression (and has she had a formal diagnostic evaluation) at least considered the possibility of a precursor ADHD or co-morbid ADHD. </p>
<p>Aggressively manage the depression, add treatment focused on reducing dependence on technology for stimulation- and gratification. It doesn’t really matter if she gets all A’s or not, it does really matter if you do these things. If she is not on medication for depression, consider it. </p>
<p>Your daughter also sounds a bit socially ‘quirky’, and I say this with the greatest of affection for kids like this. Maybe some of what is going on with getting along with girls- and pulling back from them, is not really a choice-- but maybe there are actual issues with this and this might be a source of some stress to her as well. </p>
<p>Or, maybe she is just bored… but before you ship her off to college or anything else, I think it is important to think some of the other elements you have referenced.</p>
<p>OP, your first post could describe my daughter perfectly except that she was perfectionist who did get the straight A’s. She will start her third year of college in September. We wrestled with the idea of sending her off to college (I work at our local CC and did not think that was the path she needed), and then decided to send her to a private day prep school after ninth grade. Being an introvert, the change nearly drove her over the edge.</p>
<p>After she started college, things did improve. She still has mostly guy friends. She still is quirky. She no longer drives herself to get straight A’s.</p>
<p>If I had to do it over again, I probably would have had her change schools before ninth grade and stay closer to home (she had a one-hour commute in traffic each way, which is another story). We always sent her to summer programs of her choosing; she studied ancient Egypt and Rome, Latin, Japanese, and forensics in summer programs. </p>
<p>We also had subscriptions to as many as seven magazines at a time: Muse, Hopkins CTY magazine–can’t remember the name, Dig, and others that focused on things she was interested in. She read them all. There are dozens of great magazines.</p>
<p>I wish you well, OP. I think that being aware of the situation and seeking help is a huge step. As parents we struggle with what to do and how much is enough–or too much.</p>
<p>I’m not there, obviously, but I am willing to bet she doesn’t have anything approaching ADHD. GGA maybe (“Globally Gifted Attentions”). The therapist already weighed in - her “level of thinking” is higher than most, and she is starving for something that will really feed her head.</p>
<p>“A Parent’s Guide to Gifted Children” by James Webb is a good book that explains a lot about the way gifted kids think and behave. It might be helpful.</p>
<p>Thanks MD Mom. I am getting that book ^! We are on the “upswing” of going through this with my S who will be a HS sr next year. Once I began talking to family, friends and reading various posts on this site, it helped with our frustrations and concerns immensely. This is such a common teenage behaviour. (Our oldest D, is a few years older and is the laser beam -> hardworking, diligent, focused, now-college student at the prestigious U of her choice. It made her happy to get the “As”.) </p>
<p>My S could get A’s in every class … if he felt like it. We are now at a point where we can joke with him that “He is as smart as he wants to be.” As hs fresh & soph, he didn’t hand in work & didn’t care. We watched class grades start as “As” and occasionaly end as “Ds” and “Cs”. He WAS depressed, a bit scared, felt overwhelmed, hormones peaking … just a complicated stew of adolescent issues, so he “checked out.” We’ve assured he’s gotten some excellent counseling - and it helped tremendously. (The first counselor we took him to suggested Adderall prescription after second appt…We switched drs. While meds may be appropriate for some - it wasn’t for us/him.)</p>
<p>It’s taken a few years. I moved from initial frustration, even anger with him on occasion…to understanding and patience. We had to readjust our expectations, because he is who he is and is doing the best he can at this stage in his life. He’s now connecting to caring that his actions having consequences. He wants to go to college and will likely land at a lower B-level school. He can always transfer. </p>
<p>He is now happy most of the time. He’s grown up a bit. We’ve already taken him to view a few good college options for him. We dangled the carrot, as it were. He’s caring more about his grades and retaken a few classes on-line as make ups. We are still teaching him about actions & consequences, reflecting on what you want & working for it, personal responsibility, etc. while at the same time listening to his apprehensions and confusion. </p>
<p>We have every faith & expectation that he’s going to have a wonderful life. He’s a wonderful guy 
College doesn’t have to be a rigid, “attain the best at age 18” goal. What’s more important, in my humble opinion, is his knowing that we love and cherish him, and that he can attain what he sets his mind to. He’s growing up…</p>
<p>What’s she interested in? Is there a way to get her connected with other kids like her? If she’s math-y, then I’d suggest applying for MathCamp or something similar next summer. </p>
<p>If she’s a writer, then look for a writing camp where they make you send in samples and don’t accept everyone.</p>
<p>There isn’t enough information to rule out or strongly suggest ADD. Some of us have mentioned it because the details that are actually supplied, explicitly, make it come to mind. I personally am writing with regret that I did not pick up on this in one of my children (or myself) but am definitely not one of those who see ADHD everywhere, and I also agree with those who think it is overdiagnosed and overmedicated.</p>
<p>It does not have to be medicated, and, especially if it is mild, ADD/ADHD can be dealt with in many other ways, from diet to exercise. It is just good information to have (thought not evidence-based, objective info) and can help avoid misunderstandings (as in, thinking it is laziness or lack of motivation) and wrong directions.</p>
<p>My husband had a stroke two years ago and lacks motivation. Countless MD’s call it depression, but an expert neuropsych. confirmed what his family knows, that he is not depressed, but has brain-based “lack of motivation.” I am not saying this is the case with the OP’s daughter, I am just saying that these things can be very murky, and approaching from several directions often works out the best.</p>
<p>Sorry to be a killjoy, but I’m with cptofthehouse.</p>
<p>What we have here is a young woman who is doing well, but not extraordinarily well, in a curriculum that is demanding, but not extraordinarily demanding. Her parent thinks she could do better if she worked harder (I guess homework is not for credit, or she would be doing much worse, if the parent’s impression of what is going on is accurate.</p>
<p>We have no reason to believe that this young woman, while clearly quite bright, has the kind of truly extraordinary talent which suggests that she could compete at any kind of highly selective college at this point. (Lots of bright kids her age could succeed academically at less selective colleges).</p>
<p>Bottom line is that, at this age, my best advice is to let her know clearly that if she is not willing to pay the price now (grinding it out even if it is not fun), she will pay the price and college admission time, and if she is not willing to pay the price later she will most likely not succeed in life. Once that message is sent, the rest is up to her.</p>
<p>So we go from “As and Bs in all honors courses” to "will fail in life if not ready to pay the price…</p>
<p>There is more to life than academics. Maybe the OP is projecting…would it be better if daughter broke a sweat while studying? What is going on with the kid when she is not doing homework? Is there assigned homework? Maybe daughter gets it done at school? Is she doing everything that is being required and parent just assumes she should have all As because she is bright?</p>
<p>The workings of the mind are still a mystery and I suspect daydreaming is an important part of development. I am really shocked at how many of you want to drug the kid! If she is a sophomore in HS she is about 15. Holy smokes, not the homework terminator at 15. All work and no play…</p>
<p>Study habits are important and need to be developed, I’m not disputing that.</p>
<p>Has anyone suggested drugs for this child?</p>
<p>I think some of us are reading a bit between the lines here. The mom has enough concern to post here.</p>
<p>If the concern is about achievement, I agree, she should relax a little and let the kid evolve. I think A’s and B’s are fine, and many schools have homework at a level that can be done at school. </p>
<p>But it seems as if there is concern about the daughter not being able to do anything that she is not strongly interested in, getting easily overwhelmed of distracted, and being slightly depressed, which can happen when a kid is fighting hard to compensate.</p>
<p>Thinking about ADD can make things a little more cooperative and less judgmental, introduce new ideas about how to handle things, and does not have to mean meds.</p>
<p>The level of achievement is not relevant at all to the idea of ADHD/ADD. A person with attention issue might be top of the class, or bottom. The idea isn’t to label, but to come up with new strategies or even new paths to follow.</p>
<p>I am not pushing this, only suggesting that it be kept in mind, and I think resistance may be as unhelpful as jumping on the bandwagon. Just something to keep on the radar screen for the next couple of years.</p>
<p>"So we go from “As and Bs in all honors courses” to “will fail in life if not ready to pay the price…”</p>
<p>I freely admit that I do not know enough about this young woman to make any reliable judgments about her future. My point is that for almost everyone, in the real world success comes more from grinding it out than from raw ability. That is the message that we need to send our children–particularly children who have enough talent to coast in high school and do pretty well.</p>
<p>Definitely do dual enrollment. I could have gotten a 4.0 in high school but the combination of lack of study skills (I could pull off 4.0s in middle school while barely having to study), lots of busy work in class, and unmotivated peer group caused me to fall to a 3.3. I did a program where I could take all college classes and it was impossible to skate by. I quickly learned that asking for help was not a weakness and to be able to minimize distractions (I go to my school’s tutoring center - no spending 30 minutes frustrated stuck on a problem, no spending hours on Facebook at the expense of homework). It is really easy to get overwhelmed though.</p>