<p>“In order to make a diagnosis of ADHD you need to have had signs at an earlier age and these issues need to have significant impact on you.” - The odds are probably low that OP’s D has ADHD. But my belief is that it is possible for inattentive ADHD to be masked in really bright, well behaved kids (especially girls). They survive on sheer brain power. Symptoms don’t appear until confronting college-level responsibilities (IB/AP or college courses). Many CC thread seem to have this theme.</p>
<p>It’s a really strange world when a really bright kid, described as getting all As and Bs without doing homework, who takes outside classes when she can get them, who is wonderfully creative, and who wishes she could go to college now, is assumed to have a brain-based disorder.</p>
<p>(Hasn’t both she, and the therapist, described well what it is she needs? Maybe a little bit of trust could go a long way…)</p>
<p>(As for DSM criteria for ADHD, as described, she isn’t even close:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201007/adhd-and-school-the-problem-assessing-normalcy-in-abnormal-environment[/url]”>http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/freedom-learn/201007/adhd-and-school-the-problem-assessing-normalcy-in-abnormal-environment</a> )</p>
<p>There is certainly a lot to think about here. But first I want to clarify that I am fine with all A’s & B’s. Also, I should have made it clear that she does do some of her hw and eventually makes up some of the hw she did not do. So her final hw grade for some classes is not an F but maybe a C. I think she manipulates her teachers on letting her make some of it. up. I worry because in college she won’t have these opportunities. Now she gets behind on hw and becomes overwhelmed at the amount she has to do. Also, I worry because she never studies for tests and lacks that skill.<br>
She is being treated for depression and anxiety and I fought putting her on medication but it really made a difference. It isn’t perfect but she IS a teenager after all. I will see how the end of this year goes with very limited electronics and see if that helps. Also, her therapist talked to her about some strategies on doing her HW. Part of me knows she has to realize the consequences for not working hard so I did decide I will not nag her about HW anymore.
She is applying for a writing workshop this summer and is putting out flyers to tutor. If that does not work out there is an art program she wants to do. She has lots of ambition of what she wants to do and what she wants to do with her life. Hopefully she will not disappoint herself.</p>
<p>HS is a miserable place for teens that have not found their “place” and it is understandable that she is slightly depressed. It could be a combination of not being challenged and social pressures that is causing her to be tentative in her academics. Her lack of motivation in her academics may be just the symptom of not being comfortable in her own skin.</p>
<p>Think about it - if you were required by law to go to a place where you are uncomfortable for whatever reason every single day, you would be depressed also.</p>
<p>I think you are doing all the right things, the summer workshop is a great idea where she may meet more like-minded kids and become more motivated. Confidence and maturity will help the situation and summer programs can help in both areas.</p>
<p>I am posting text from the link provided by a poster above,so that it is easier to access. This is selected text pertaining to ADD (what it used to be called) only. The site is critical of medication and overdiagnosis, particularly of boys.</p>
<p>I personally tried to deal with attention issues of my very creative child, by homeschooling her, by helping her participate in dance and find competence outside of school, by helping her focus (sitting with her while she worked, which I couldn’t do once she was a teen) etc. She still is not medicated, but the idea of ADD helps her feel less like a failure, in, shall we say, a moral sense, and has given her some ideas about how to improve her work. </p>
<p>The OP’s daughter could also try alternatives to her regular school, such as college courses in which she is truly interested, as others have said. Or perhaps there is a creative endeavor that would inspire her.</p>
<p>This site says that it is primarily a school problem, and that the diagnosis is mainly to make things easier for the school, but actually, the same attention issues can cause problems at home, at work, and with friends (for example, spend some time telling this daughter a personal story that means a lot, only to find she was thinking of something else, which makes her, and the speaker, both feel terrible). </p>
<p>Anyway, it is something we have only recently been able to identify, and whether legitimate or not, the basic idea that someone’s cognitive style- no matter what you call it- is NOT their fault, is very helpful. This may mean more behavioral approaches such as rewards and consequences, but in a context that is not blaming but helpful and cooperative.</p>
<p>Here is the text selected concerning ADD. I do not know how to box things:</p>
<p>Inattention</p>
<ol>
<li>Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.</li>
<li>Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.</li>
<li>Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.</li>
<li>Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions).</li>
<li>Often has trouble organizing activities.</li>
<li>Often avoids, dislikes, or doesn’t want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework).</li>
<li>Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (e.g. toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools).</li>
<li>Is often easily distracted.</li>
<li>Is often forgetful in daily activities.</li>
</ol>
<p>AND</p>
<p>The most common subtype of ADHD is the Predominantly Inattentive Type. This is the disorder that used to be called just ADD. A highly respected pediatrician at Yale University who treats (with drugs) many children diagnosed with this disorder made this interesting confession: “A disproportionate number of children labeled ‘ADHD without hyperactivity’ are exceptionally bright and creative children. I’ve often thought that these kids find their own inner theater much richer and more interesting than the outer theater of the classroom and, so, naturally, focus on it at the expense of classroom attention. . . The proper fix for this problem would be done at the school level, a place where I am unlikely to have any significant effect. I can, however, help these children concentrate and return their attention to the classroom.”[5]</p>
<p>Unfortunately, one of the frequent outcomes of 12 years in the system, 13 if you include K, is learned helplessness. Kudos to you, RRTMom, for searching for ways to make it better. There <em>are</em> options and things you and your daughter <em>can</em> do. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. I ask posters here this. If you were at a bad job, would you stay there another 12 years? Yet we question when kids rankle at same. I don’t know the OP’s daughter’s situation at school, but I would encourage people to look and look hard before you assume something is <em>wrong</em> with kids for not being completely enthused over leading a life where they are given very little control. See if you have other options that might be better.</p>
<p>Compmom, out of all those things, really #6 is the only one that describes her a bit. When she was little, my friend used to say “Give her a paper cup and she can occupy herself for hours”. That was a bit of an exaggeration but she was actually hyper-focused back then.
Posters have suggested changing schools which we have constantly considered but she adamantly refused stating that she knows her enemies and is comfortable with that. Plus, there really are not any great options around our area. I have always questioned this decision though and that is why we let her go to out of school enrichment programs. Since she has only 2 years left at this point, we can work with it especially with the dual enrollment. Maybe that will make the difference since it is outside the school.</p>
<p>Online courses can help, too. Virtual High School is the one that we used, and our school now funds 25 spots for kids who need more than the school can give.</p>
<p>The diagnosis of ADHD skyrocketed in recent years due for artificial reasons, connected to the contrived and increasingly meaningless demands of school (teaching to the test etc.). Nevertheless, there are differences in learning style (and creative needs, if you will) that can make school a lot harder for some than others.</p>
<p>One reason can be difficulty paying attention, and it is too bad that schools often cannot function in such a way as to capture that attention. It can be hard to tell if the kid has a problem at all, in this day and age.</p>
<p>That said, and if you forget about labels and pathologizing, there are still learning styles that DO involve focus issues in several contexts, not just school, and if they want to call it ADD and tell me strategies that can help, I am listening.</p>
<p>OP, I am glad to hear that your child does not meet any of the criteria besides #6. This is not a definitive list, just a posting of something from the site someone else mentioned. </p>
<p>It may not be relevant, but for others, I guess I should point out that hyperfocus is also a part of ADHD. I’m sure it is also not a part of ADHD, if you get my meaning, but as an example proving a kid does not have it, it doesn’t work that way.</p>
<p>It sounds like you are pretty sure attention is not an issue, which is great, so you can move ahead to finding alternatives for your daughter that suit her better, and hopefully a college environment that also suits her.</p>
<p>I tried that approach for mine, and it did not work, so that is why we are where we are now. But doing alternatives along with high school worked great for my other kids, and it probably will with your daughter. Hope she is happier as a result.</p>
<p>Dual Enrollment were a savior for me way back in my day!</p>
<p>Unlike OPs daughter, I got all As. I was kept “busy” enough that I would not have said I was bored. I related much better to older folks and find my age peers immature. I had plenty of friends - tons - because honestly I couldn’t stand being around anyone for a long period of time, so I compensated by having many friends and would spend limited time with each.</p>
<p>Taking classes at a Community College provided academic challenges I did not know I was missing. It also provided a social group I craved. </p>
<p>Knowing what I know now, early residential college would have been fantastic for me.</p>
<p>I encourage the dual enrollment. Be aware, some schools teach it on HS property, which will not fulfill the social aspect a student may need.</p>
<p>I have 2 kids with inattentive ADHD and EF issues. It doesn’t sound to me like this is the issue for OPs kid, but I’d still encourage OP to have her daughter look over a list of common traits for ADHD inattentive.</p>
<p>Some kids cannot do the work when it is not challenging. American HS makes sure that most classes do not present a challenge. While English, History and such are at a proper level, most math and science are not. It is a huge problem, even my 12 years old granddaughter complains all the time that math is way too easy. However, some kids are programmed to do what is needed no matter what, even things they absolutely hate. This type of learned behaviour need to start at about 5, it is too late for high schooler. My S. did very well only when he loved activity, actually overachieving. He was fine in college because of that. Knowing that, I took care of my younger D. When she was 5, I told her that her priority is school work and she will not go to her favorite sport practice until all is done and done well. I never repeated it while she stayed with her sport all thru HS, actually started a team at HS. She can do whatever needed, even subjects that she absolutely hate. Either way is fine if one utilizes advantages of whatever attitude one has. Artsy people tend to neglect everything else, if they feel like doing thier art at the moment (just as example). Hard working people tend to be very broad in their interests. First is true for my S. Second is true for my D. Either will work if thier professional choice match their character.</p>
<p>Let’s not forget that, beginning in 1992, schools could get PAID EXTRA for diagnoses of ADHD. (Look what happened to prescribing rates beginning 1992-1996.)</p>
<p>It should be noted that dual enrollment isn’t even necessary. My older d. never set foot in a high school (or a junior high school), had 66 credits by the time she was 16, threw them all away to start again, did great in competitive college admissions (including admissions to #1 LAC), and went on to a 5-6 year fellowship at Princeton. Not saying that would happen in this case; only noting that, for some, the h.s. part of dual enrollment is a waste of time (it was for my younger one, not nearly as intellectually gifted, as well).</p>
<p>As mihcal1 suggested a few days ago, Bard College at Simon’s Rock ([Home</a> — Bard College at Simon’s Rock - The Early College](<a href=“http://www.simons-rock.edu/]Home”>http://www.simons-rock.edu/)) is an interesting option for those students who are ready for the challenges of college immediately after the 10th or 11th grade. </p>
<p>Other responders have pointed out that there are options out there for students (dual enrollment, online courses, etc), but Simon’s Rock is the only 4-year college in the country entirely devoted to the early college model. </p>
<p>Simon’s Rock students are academically prepared, intellectually curious, and mature emotionally and socially. They choose to start college because they want to be around peers who are just as excited about learning as they are. These students thrive on challenge and desire to be taken seriously as thinkers and scholars. </p>
<p>Being “ready” for college is about much more than a GPA, a test score, or a biological age. For those who are ready for college now - why wait?</p>
<p>I hope these thoughts help. I have found that informing students of the options available to them can be very powerful. </p>
<p>The Office of Admission is still accepting applications for the fall 2011 class so give them a call for more information (1800.235.7186).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree, it could be adhd since she possibly had add so that could be in the cards. I don’t know what to say but A’s and B’s are pretty good already. Maybe just focus on motivating her. A small praise can go a long way and help boost her self-esteem and then in turn help motivate her to study. :)</p>
<p>IMO, it’s like banging your head against the wall to lecture, plead or doomsaying about the consequences for college admissions. With my first 2 kids, I was a broken record on these mantras and they marched to their own beats anyway. In retrospect, all of my efforts had minimal impact because these are TEENS–they respond not to parents’ desires, or long term thinking, but something else that none of us have quite figured out (perhaps, peers to some degree). In the end they figure it out and apply themselves only when they are ready–for some kids (and their lucky parents) this could be be early in hs; for others, sorry, it could be college or later (or not at all).</p>
<p>Like others have said, your D reminds me of me. I hated high school, got As and Bs, but that doesn’t tell the whole story. It was always torture since I procrastinated and had to make things up and stay up late and then I overslept… I missed about 40 days of school my junior year. I had great test scores and I was also diagnosed (much later) as having ADD- but I honestly think a fairly large portion of the population can get that diagnosis.</p>
<p>Starting junior year all I looked forward to was college. Everything got worse throughout high school and I actually got an F my last semester and failed my AP tests, but I had already been accepted to a decent college. </p>
<p>College was way better and pretty much what I expected - though with my bad work habits it was a bumpy ride until I figured things out. But eventually I got great grades and became a professional. </p>
<p>I think my story is somewhat typical. I think if a kid is bright, and caring, as it sounds like your daughter is, they will most likely figure out a way to be successful eventually. If my mother was of our generation, she would have been freaking out about my future. But fortunately she wasn’t, and she figured it was up to me.</p>
<p>my son had similar problems. we picked a college that totally changed his environment socially. Practically all his peers are very accepting of him now. That was the key in his his college choice. We all knew it was important to get the right social fit and we did. All the difference in the world. He chose a school where he did not know one person and got a pot luck roommate. He has many friends on his floor now (both girls and boys) and his roommate is a good friend too. From a social stand point, he hit the jack pot. I believe that spills over to the academics when the child is happy</p>
<p>Been there done that with my girl. Right down to the strong willed, slightly depressed, etc. She was diagnosed with ADHD inattentive the summer after her junior year. </p>
<p>Like the post above, I think that the social portion of school can be a bigger part of the problem than we think. Imagine spending all day feeling uncomfortable or left out or misunderstood or even bullied. No wonder she isn’t enthusiastic about school. </p>
<p>Is there some way you could encourage friendships outside of school? Does she have some obscure interest like anime? Do you have a good youth group at church? Or would she enjoy some kind of sports club (rock climbing, triathlon, etc.). And actually, we all know that exercise can be really helpful with motivation and mood.</p>
<p>Some kind of respite from the social pressure of school can be really helpful.</p>
<p>I realize this is an old thread but I am soooo curious as to how things are going with the OP’s daughter. We are struggling with almost the exact scenario with our own daughter (grade 11) although we didn’t address it well enough last year and she tail-spun into a major depressive episode about 6 weeks ago and missed a LOT of school, which of course has made everything worse. </p>
<p>Our D was always in the “gifted” program and an honors/high honors student in elementary and middle schools. She “coasted” on being so bright and never learned any study skills or time-management skills. (She brags, even now, that she can whip off a long paper for an IB or Honors class in the last 45 minutes before it’s due and get a 90 on it. Grr.)</p>
<p>She’s very creative, outgoing but claims she doesn’t “get” the social cues at school, hangs out mainly with the quirky, artsy boys. VERY stubborn and independent, and with a problem with teachers who aren’t sympathetic. Manipulates adults easily because she’s so bright and articulate. And has “internet addiction”. Sophomore year behavioral and emotional problems came out of left field and resulted in a week’s suspension for drinking at school (never any issues previously) and failure to pass in tons of work resulting in several Cs and Ds. </p>
<p>Junior year she chose an extremely academically rigorous program (full IB) and quickly became overwhelmed. The intellectual stimulation was good -better than being bored in class- but she just couldn’t seem to gather herself to TRY when things were hard. She rarely did any homework at home, saying she’d done it in school. Teachers reported frustration because she was clearly intellectually capable but just not trying. She herself, after visiting selective colleges and falling in love with one that’s a longshot, said she WANTED to get better grades but just physically COULD NOT try any harder. Soon, she crashed in a major depressive episode which was a lot worse than I’m making it sound… and resulted in her finally getting more serious help and medication. These seem to be working, however she still seems to not be able to find the motivation to really TRY in school. Even though one of her main sources of anxiety is getting into this good school. Everyone around her can see that if she simply spent an hour a day working on school, her grades would go up enough for her to get in. (Her PSATs were pretty high, 99% in reading and 98% in writing…) It is SO frustrating.</p>
<p>The school has made a 504 plan for her, due to the missed school and the depression and GAD diagnosis, and they are scheduling a Special Education IEP meeting. I don’t know if I want to go through with the testing, since I am afraid the stigma of “Special Ed” will damage her already very fragile sense of self esteem. (On the other hand, if they can actually do anything to HELP her, it’s worth considering. Would they teach her the study skills she so obviously lacks? or what?)</p>
<p>Meanwhile all she wants is to be in college already. She states the most important things to her are intellectual conversations and pursuing her painting, photography, writing. She yearns for an environment where she can have meaningful conversations (like she has with her Ivy-league-college boyfriend but not with her HS peers).</p>
<p>Yet she’s sabotaging her chances of going to a school with like-minded peers by not trying harder to improve her GPA. it is so heart-breaking to watch… </p>
<p>I will say that, if you didn’t already take her to look at colleges as a sophomore, I’d encourage you to do it ASAP. We went on a very casual college trip during April vacation of sophomore year, and it definitely helped her by giving her a concrete idea of what college is like. It also helped her start narrowing down where she wanted to be… she’d thought NYU or another big-city school sounded great, but now realizes she wants a more contained LAC campus environment. We attended Mount Holyoke’s “Focus on Admission” day in the fall of junior year and that was a great motivational tool. (Well, sort of. Obviously not enough!)</p>
<p>I don’t follow the end of your post. Is it a quote from something earlier?
What did you do when she had a major depressive episode? Take her to doctor? Just consult with school?</p>
<p>There’s a lot going on here. I don’t know for sure that the OP is just dealing with a smart girl that’s bored.</p>
<p>One problem doesn’t necessarily sound connected to the other. So, fixing one thing may not fix another. Not sure that all these things will spontaneously resolve in college or with time.</p>