Smile and Nod (or grit teeth)

<p>Amen … to that.</p>

<p>I go to a private school in Toronto, and I cannot tell you how many patronizing encounters I’ve had when I tell people that I want to study acting and writing in university. Almost everyone at my school is going into business, engineering, medicine or law-- so when I people that I’m majoring in theatre, they’ll say “Theatre, eh? That’s a risky career choice…” or sometimes they’ll just give weird looks and forge a smile. I don’t understand why some (not all, but some) people look down on the arts so much. I get that it’s ‘unstable’. But whose business is it that I want to be an actor? Mine. It’s what I love to do. Simple as that.</p>

<p>Does anyone who majors in philosophy, or classics, or the history of science, or any of the other fascinating subjects young people choose to study in college, ever hear the “backup plan” question? I always wonder. I really think it’s a knee-jerk response that contains a lot of jealousy (as well as other feelings). Acting and theater is such an amazing combination of history and psychology and literature and dance and music and art…I think it’s a great subject to major in, with tons of possibilities. </p>

<p>And yes, I know this thread is a few weeks old, but just stumbled over it and had to chime in.</p>

<p>I agree. I am totally happy with my D2’s decision to major in theatre, just as I am with D1’s decision to major in lab science (in which she almost assuredly will need a graduate degree for job enhancement, so …?).</p>

<p>The only think I would discourage my D2 from doing is getting a certification in Theatre Education (which at a number of schools is offered secondary to the Theatre major). If she does an education degree, either as part of undergrad or as a Master’s, I would strongly urge her to get a broader certification, since I’m sure theatre-specific teaching jobs will be increasingly scarce. Otherwise, I am telling her to go for it, whatever she wants to do theatre-wise.</p>

<p>Gwen and EmmyB, I am 1000% in agreement with both of you. I’ve always supported my d’s choice to pursue acting, it’s been her dream since she was maybe 5 or 6. </p>

<p>Even with all those doubts and struggles with self-esteem (horray for middle school, right?), I’ve always felt it’s better to try, and even fail, than to be a woulda coulda shoulda 45-year-old who never went after what they really wanted…</p>

<p>Kids that are resilient enough to survive this latest grueling process of college auditions will, I think, have the resilience to make the most of their theatre degrees no matter what profession they ultimately land in, and to make the most of themselves as people, too.</p>

<p>RE: Racroce post #19 about Oscars:</p>

<p>This reminds me so much of when D was a competitive gymnast for 11 years and EVERYONE would say, “Are we going to see her in the Olympics one day?” I got so tired of explaining that not only was going to the Olympics NOT our goal, but that due to her birth date, she wasn’t likely to be the right age at the right level to be ABLE to compete, even if she had been good enough! GRR!! If I had a dollar for every time I heard that comment, I wouldn’t be needing scholarships! It was ALMOST as bad as trying to explain how competitive audition programs are!</p>

<p>On a different but related note, 30 years ago when I was in college, I majored in Communications with an emphasis in Television because I wanted to be a TV producer, actor, director or “something.” (I wanted to make “ABC Afterschool Specials.”) About midway through my Junior year, I realized I didn’t have the “fire in the belly” that it takes to pursue that career and I looked around to figure out what to switch my major to that would be more “practical.” Not wanting to add more years to my college experience, I decided to just go ahead and get my degree in Communications with an emphasis in Television and not worry about being practical.</p>

<p>You know, every single job I ever had after that required 2 things:<br>

  1. That I have a Bachelor’s degree (Not one employer cared what that degree was in) and
  2. That I be able to talk to people.<br>
    That was it, and both of those requirements were fulfilled by having a degree in Communications, as they would by a degree in Theatre. So I never worry whether my child will be able to support herself. She will, whether she goes on to be a “star” or whether she starts a children’s theatre company or whether she works in customer service for some corporation somewhere. She will be just fine!</p>

<p>Truly inspirational, tracy!</p>

<p>Nalajen, I totally agree with you about “coulda, woulda, shoulda”, and I too believe that my son will make the most of his theatre degree, regardless of what he ends up doing. Which is why we’ve supported our son 100% throughout this craziness. However, this past weekend, my dad commented about his grandson, “I can’t believe with his brains you LET him apply to schools for theatre.” Arghhhhh. Here we go again…</p>

<p>I always have to laugh at people who make the “You should have majored in something practical” types of comments. The reality is that with very few exceptions (a BFA being one of them), and certainly with respect to most liberal arts majors, undergrad degrees do not prepare a graduate to be meaningfully employed in their major. An undergrad degree typically gives the student a credential for seeking graduate training in the area in which they will seek employment. And when it comes to general entry level employment outside of one’s major, I don’t think there is much difference between a BFA and a BA in some other major. The next time someone makes one of these misguided remarks, ask them where their kid is employed with their BA in English, Psych, Sociology, History etc and how much they are making at that job. And to boot, I know loads of people who earned a BFA and later applied to law school and other graduate professional programs and their BFA in no way was an impediment to gaining access to a graduate program. </p>

<p>What really counts is that our kids are engaged in a course of study about which they are passionate and in which they are invested. Putting aside that the skills and training they are receiving can be applied to so many areas outside of theatre, the commitment to what they are doing and the discipline, work ethic, time management skills and abilities to work collaboratively on complex projects which are required have intrinsic value beyond the choice of major. If our kids can develop these qualities while engaged in the pursuit of something for which they have real zeal and interest, isn’t that what an undergrad education should be all about?</p>

<p>^^^MichaelNKat, I truly agree. Well said.</p>

<p>I was another theatre major from years ago. I did work as a professional actress for some years, but then I transitioned to writing. One of my first WGA jobs was as a staff writer for “Jeopardy!” They never asked me where I went to college or what my major was! They looked at a sample of my writing and that was that. I think the broad background I got studying theatre plus my own insatiable reading habits prepared me for many opportunities.</p>

<p>UG education is another step for our kids. These creative kids have excelled in school work, but for many, their hearts were with their ECs and electives. Won’t it be nice, for a change, when they can be that enthusiastic about all their curriculum? :)</p>

<p>madbean … wow. You just hit me right in the forehead. I’ve never seen it put so brilliantly that way.</p>

<p>My D right now has a preferred BFA and a couple of BA options on her short list. She’s keeping her thinking mostly to herself - for some reason she is still strongly considering the BAs, and while I certainly respect them a lot, I wonder why she is so stumped sometimes, beyond the fact that the BFA wasn’t the “premiere” school in the urban setting she’d hoped for. I’ve tried not to pressure her for a decision, but every day I allow myself one comment.</p>

<p>All of her life she has loved to learn - like many of these kids more in the reading, writing, history, vein than in science or math. But every minute that she had discretionary time (even in the classroom), it’s been in the arts. Sports? No, dance and marching band. Painting, drawing, needlework, experimenting with clothes and with makeup. Singing - in every possible genre, in every possible way. Playing 5 instruments, picking up another at a moment’s notice whenever needed. Listening to music, composing music, arranging music, directing music. Writing, writing, writing, so many notebooks we barely have room for them, although I cry for the ones that she chose to toss along the way. And then there’s theatre: Reading plays, watching plays, writing plays, teching for plays, directing plays, being in plays. Reading ABOUT people who do all of those things, watching every documentary ever made about theatre. Memorizing theatre facts and stats on par with any die-hard baseball fan.</p>

<p>Today I know what my one comment will be. I will quote you: “Honey, what about this chance finally to spend your time studying the things you have spent all of your free time doing, all of your life? Do you really want to do anything else?”</p>

<p>Just to be clear - I know my D wants to be an educated person. Her BFA has excellent distribution requirements and she can do a terrific honors college there, in a Great Books program. I didn’t mean I’ll ask her if she really ever wants to learn about anything else. I mean does she want to go anywhere else, where she she might, as she has forever, only be able to do 40% of her work in theatre and the arts.</p>

<p>Had to make that qualification. </p>

<p>Her sister, who’s graduating from a “regular” college, will in the end have no greater number of distribution courses than D2 would have in the BFA program she’s considering. In the long run, I would consider neither one of them more “broadly” educated than the other.</p>

<p>People love to beat parents up about educational choices-- because education is one area in which everyone is a self-appointed expert. We have four kids who’ve followed four different paths, so over the past 21 years we’ve been criticized by friends and relatives for: sending them to preschool, sending them to the the wrong kind of preschool, to the wrong kind of violin lessons, the other wrong kind of violin lessons, to the wrong kind of private school, the wrong other kind of private school, for homeschooling, for the wrong kind of homeschooling, for not homeschooling, for sending them to public school, for sending them to the wrong kind of public school, for taking music lessons too seriously, for not taking music lessons seriously enough, the wrong kind of college, the wrong major in college… At some point you just have to turn off the volume. </p>

<p>The point has already been made that there are very few pre-professional undergrad majors (accounting, engineering, nursing) and that any undergraduate degree can be the basis for a professional degree, if desired in a different field. A theater major (or an English/Philosophy/Art/Music major) will generally need to fill in a few courses to apply for certain kinds of professional schools. But the most important thing a degree does is to demonstrate that the student has been capable of fulfilling the requirements and completing the degree-- regardless of the major. There are many more drama majors who end up with careers in law, for example, than pre-law majors who end up with acting careers. The time to pursue your dreams is now.</p>

<p>A second issue is that of balance in the conservatory vs. university dilemma. My oldest daughter was criticized for double-majoring in English and Philosophy at a LAC, but at least no one could complain that she did not receive a “rounded” education at her college. D2 went to art school. I have honestly never seen anyone work as hard as she did during her fundamentals year at art school, but she is clearly not getting the balanced education craved by her grandparents-- there is not enough time. Ditto for D2, in a music conservatory. Both schools have a theoretical exchange program with prominent universities nearby, but hardly any student is able to take advantage of this theoretical opportunity due to impossibility of scheduling. One has to hope and trust that intelligent, curious human beings will continue to self-educate throughout their lives-- I ask anyone reading this if they have not learned much more about the processes of the world since leaving college. D4 will end up either at a university/college as an acting major or at a conservatory, depending on her luck with auditions. I know that if she chooses the former, we will be off the hook with relatives and friends who believe they know better than she or we do about what is best for her… but the volume is off so I won’t hear them.</p>

<p>Awesome post, glassharmonica! :)</p>

<p>Ditto, glass harmonica…</p>

<p>Couldn’t agree more about the “self-appointed experts” bit, even amongst current high schoolers. I get a lot of patronizing or doom-saying comments about going into an acting/DTA major: from family, teachers, friends of family; even from my friends-- most of whom are highly intelligent, well-off, and planning on a school like Yale or Georgetown. I’ve got comparable resumes to each one of them and am looking at similarly prestigious schools, but when the conversation turns to colleges, I always hear “Why are you going off to do that? It’s a waste of your smarts!”</p>

<p>Backhanded compliment if I ever heard one. Why am I going the artistic path instead of a “practical” one? I quote Isaac Asimov, who applied it to a slightly different field: “I write for the same reason I breathe: because if I didn’t, I would die.”</p>

<p>This thread makes for great reading, by the way, and I’m glad there are people who’ll support the next generation of actors, dancers, musicians, and artists of all persuasions. :)</p>

<p>You all seem pretty intelligent and familiar with the field-- if it’s not too much trouble, could you do me a big favor and chance me? <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1118399-chance-theatre-acting-inclined-junior-ill-chance-you-back.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1118399-chance-theatre-acting-inclined-junior-ill-chance-you-back.html&lt;/a&gt; Thanks!!</p>

<p>Dude – by answering your “chance me request” I am totally now committed to following you next year and figuring out where you end up! :)</p>

<p>First, obviously, we know nothing about your acting resume, so we don’t know where you plan to audition but I can’t help taking the bait. Note I’ll only address schools I know a little something about, and having two boys with similar stats. Someone else can chip in on the others. Should have started a new thread but what the heck…</p>

<p>Schools:
Adelphi:
AMDA (Acting BFA, not conservatory)
Arizona State-Safety
Bennington
Boston U-audition, see how you do. You definitely have the stats, but the audition will decide.
Cal State Long Beach-safety.
Chapman
DePaul
Emerson-audition. can go either way depending on audition
Florida State. are you in state? If you are out of state. tough. better nail the audition and you have a shot. don’t expect money unless you bring the GPA up.
Fordham-target. Ace the audition. Write incredible essays. They’ll probably love you.
NYU. depends on the audition.
Ohio University-target to low reach.
U. of British Columbia
U. of San Diego. Safety. I know, with 30 percent acceptance, to call it a safety is a lot. But. you have the similar SATs, Eagle Scout (make sure you do it!) and SATs as both my sons. they got in.
UNC Arts. Audition reach for everyone. regardless of stats.</p>

<p>good luck!</p>

<p>Thanks very much UVaHoo! For your consideration, my acting resume (all named roles, that is-- a few more spear-carriers during and before my freshman year) is at the bottom of page 1 of that thread, FWIW. As sberryfields chimed in there, it’s quite literally impossible to chance an actor without an audition, but I appreciate your input all the same. :)</p>

<p>(And no, I’m not a Florida resident; I’ve heard that FSU is a tough sell!)</p>

<p>I’ll be sure to stay up on this board and hang around to let you all know how I do over the next year!</p>

<p>StrangeBro - welcome! Please go ahead and start a new thread. You’ll get a lot more information.</p>

<p>As you’ve seen, we don’t try here to predict anyone’s results here on auditions; over the years it’s become clear that no matter what the resume, the roles played, camps attended, coaching, classes - we don’t know what the auditors would be looking for at any given time. In this friendly forum, we take the Lake Wobegon approach: We assume all of the kids are capable and talented, and above average!</p>

<p>But we’ll all help you with details and bits of advice we know about the various schools. Somewhere there’s a thread already about admissions stats, when we know them, since the only way to have a balanced list among the “more selective” and “slightly less selective” theatre schools is to have a clue how many they accept every year. Most of the well-known auditioned schools only take about 10% of applicants (with no real predicting for talent, experience, type or even gender). Some others take closer to 20%. These are very low admissions rates - pretty much like you’re applying to Ivies.</p>

<p>There are many wonderful schools that accept more like 25-35% of their auditioned applicants. These are the “slightly less selective” schools I mentioned. But if you think about it again in terms of regular college admissions, we’re still talking about trying to get into tier 1 schools - still no one’s safety, even though academically these theatre schools often are fairly easy to get into.</p>

<p>The only theatre “match,” “likely” or “safety” is where there is no audition, and you fit their admissions statistics otherwise. It looks like you’re going to have a very balanced list when you finish your searching. But you should separate the auditioned schools from the non-auditioned schools and try to have balanced chances within each group.</p>

<p>Good luck, and stay with us! We want to know how it goes.</p>

<p>I am laughing…when folks bring up the issue that I have 2 children who have dreams of making it in the theatre/film/acting world, I gently laugh and tell them that is why we have 3 children, because our youngest will just have to work very hard to support his older, unemployed siblings. Normally shuts them up, because they cannot tell if I am kidding or not.</p>