Question to all: When you have attended such events, and the speaker goes into the “break-out sessions,” do you always deliberately stand out of the way and apart from others asking questions of the speaker?
I do not, particularly when the speaker seems to be giving eye contact in a short radial span that seems to suggest that his or her answer is one that others may find helpful. I also do not keep my back to the other parents when I am the one asking the question, but turn my shoulders and body out, at about a 45 degree angle, as one is taught to do in the theater, to indicate that this is an open moment, and feel free to step closer. Many mothers take this open space invitation and after receiving a short nod from me, step closer and become an extended part of the moment. These things are not office hour appointments, and I have very seldom felt that others have taken it to be so.
D spent time as an accepted student at a school, and the head of the department didn’t even have time to speak to her in his office. He was obviously hurried and had a lot on his mind. D almost dismissed the school. However, she decided that she loved the program and other aspects of the school, so she reached out to the department head through emails.
She decided to attend this school, still a bit unsure of the head (even though email correspondence proved satisfactory), but, once on campus, discovered immediately that this head is an intelligent, compassionate, effective department head and professor who is open and eager to spend time with students and guide each one personally, and she’s so glad that she looked beyond that one day’s encounter! She could not be happier with her choice.
So, my advice is to consider that the head may have had personal distractions at that particular moment (even though he was animated just the moment before). Or, maybe he thought you heard that answer already and, that, coupled with distractions, made him abrupt. Who knows. I’d encourage your son to correspond with the head through emails and continue to dig into the school by communicating with students there. Keep an open, probing mind, and do not dismiss the school based on this one encounter.
I would probably have tried to join into the conversation with the previous student, especially if the professor made eye contact. He may have felt like you could have joined in. But if you tried to make eye contact and he looked away or seemed unwelcoming or if everyone was taking turns, then I would not. At a lot of these types of things, it seems that students speak in small groups, not individually but that would depend on the school.
I understand your concern, but respectfully, the questions your son asked seem like they should have/could have been answered by anyone or covered in the presentation.
Why ask this particular dean who to talk to about majors? Wouldn’t it be the representatives there for those majors/programs? Perhaps the young woman who was talking to the dean when you walked up asked a less generic, more focused question to get the dean talking and then asked about majors. The dean should have been more accommodating, but your son asked him who he should talk to and he was told the pre-med adviser, which may not have answered the entire question but did provide a next step. I would also use this as a learning experience for your son in how to engage others in this type of situation. It may be that the dean was biased against your son or against pre-med majors, but it may also be the way the question was asked. It may have been better to ask him what he loved about teaching there, or some specific IS question, since you said he was an academic adviser to the major being considered.
I, too, would not write this school off on this one encounter. But I would look further into the lack of diversity and whether that would be a problem for your son. Further communication may clarify those concerns.
Universities are not Disney World where every single “team member” or associate or cast member is trained and taught and coached and cajoled into serving the needs of their visitors/customers.
The earlier in the process parents learn this the better.
Some colleges have weak academic offerings but very strong admissions/marketing/customer relations functions. Parents confuse the fantastic “sell” with a fantastic intellectual experience-- but they are not the same. Some colleges have terrible admissions/student interfaces, but wonderful academic resources and a happy student body.
I would let this experience go. My kids all had fantastic undergrad experiences and educations at places which gave off “red flags” at certain junctures. The red flags all ended up being evidence that faculty members make great instructors, mentors, and researchers who inspire and teach- but aren’t great salespeople. Deans are terrific at assembling academic resources, cobbling together a fellowship so a student can pursue a wonderful opportunity overseas at no cost to the family-- but aren’t good at shmoozing. Department heads can pick up the phone and get a student a summer job, a PAID internship, or an interview with a prominent alum, but would never be selected “Miss Congeniality” at a beauty pageant.
I think my long OP confused the main question, but I believe I’ve got my answer. So thank you everyone for your opinions.
Basically, it is NOT UNUSUAL to have this sort of interaction at these horse & pony shows for ANYONE. Not normal, but also not unusual. That was what I was really wanting to know.
I apologize that the question of race confused or obscured my real question. It was only mentioned because it was the only thing I could come up with & my son also wondered the same thing. When my child comes to me for advise & to bounce thoughts/concerns but I don’t know or am not sure, I ask! Thus my posted question.
I’m basically filing this under inept social skills in a customer service arena by an academic. Pretty much par for the course the higher you go. We can totally overlook that! Racism can not be overlooked though. So although race concerns will need to be better vetted out & will be, we’re leaning towards this incident being poor customer service skills.
Thank you to everyone who shared their equally disappointing experiences. It really helped to normalize our experience & put it into a wider perspective. Truly appreciated!
Make sure you are not pressing “enter” - and do not type - while you are still in paste mode, or that will erase everything held in suspension, ready to be affixed in the text box. Move cursor outside of text box, then go.,
This isn’t about having an ideal Disneyworld-like experience. The OP was rightly concerned and even angered about not being treated with a bare minimum level of civility and courtesy one should expect from college admins in this situational context. Especially in a session where being asked and answering questions, including repeated/dumb questions is the CORE part of their jobs.
This would be similar to a computer programmer refusing to write computer programs, a lawyer who refuses to work on a client’s case he/she’s already promised to work on some time before without giving reasonable notice he/she’s dropping the client, a bus driver who refuses to drive the bus, or a postal delivery worker refusing to deliver the mail because he/she was “having an off-day”.
The few instances I’ve witnessed or heard of folks acting in such a manner in most professional contexts…they at the very least given a stern warning on their performance review with the understanding a repeat will result in them being terminated assuming the process wasn’t already started to have them terminated ASAP for cause.
I will say that in my profession, there are many people who are in deed undoubtedly brilliant but lack social aptitude & skills. They generally are not active in interpersonal settings with the ‘clientele’ but rather end up teaching & are professors! Lol.
So to the old adage that ‘Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach,’ I give a lot of merit. Not universally true, but enough that I really am ok overlooking that aspect of this. Students go to college to learn, first & foremost. So gaining the professor’s knowledge is the goal, not necessarily befriending them! Lol
It will be very interesting to see how his experience changes with all the colleges he applies to once his entire application is submitted & they get a wider picture too. Thus far all that’s been sent are SAT/ACT type scores.
Am I right in thinking there’s a change in attitude & approach? So much has changed since I went through this process…
Cobrat- we attended a symposium hosted by JHU designed for seniors and their parents. It was a fantastic event, with a few professors from different disciplines debating a topic chosen by the moderator (an Adcom). The discussion was lively and somewhat iconoclastic (I think the scientist on the panel discussed his faith in God- not what you’d expect, and the professor from one of the humanities subjects was brilliant and to the point on various theories about the origins of the universe from a scientific perspective). I can’t imagine anyone in the audience walking away from it feeling like “these people don’t know what they are doing- they call this a college?” or something of that ilk.
And yet I know people who attended who walked out miffed. Because they hung out afterwards and approached the professors for some one-on-one time and were disappointed with their responses. One professor refused to read their kids application (said something like, “I’m not working with admissions this year so my read won’t advance your cause”), one professor didn’t want to engage in a “What Are My Chances” conversation with the kid, etc. Kid so brilliant- destined for Stanford but was “slumming it” at JHU and can you believe the professor didn’t bow down in awe.
Professors don’t show up at these events because they are dying to volunteer to be good-will ambassadors and salespeople for the university. They show up because talking about their work is what they are good at, and someone in the administration thinks that their participation will show off the U to great advantage (which it did). But you can’t ask Jennifer Lawrence to address Wall Street on why her next movie is going to make Sony’s stock price climb and why investors should ignore last quarter’s earnings warning. She’s not an investor relations professional who gets paid to shill Sony stock- she’s an actress and “the talent”.
Similarly, you can’t be disappointed when a professor demonstrates quite capably why he or she belongs at the front of a classroom, giving an inspiring and awe-inducing lecture, but isn’t able to “sell” the administrative nuts and bolts of the college. not the job. Emphatically not the job.
And if you can’t see the difference- you will be very disappointed during your college search. No institution is going to have what you are looking for.
Would it be too much for them to say “I’m sorry, but I can’t speak to that/you’ll need to speak with admissions about that” in an even-handed polite tone of voice?
I doubt it’s asking a lot considering how nearly every Prof I’ve encountered during my own college search as a HS senior or as an unaffiliated undergrad. They all seemed much more personable and demonstrated social skills superior to many folks I’ve encountered in the corporate/private sector world…including some in customer service roles.
Only exception was one Prof in grad school who screamed at me once for showing up to her office hours as previously agreed because she was “having an off-day”. However, she caught herself, immediately apologized graciously, and did what she could to make up for that “incident” without my having to say/do anything.
But no, it is not too much for them to say what you are suggesting. And some of them- most of them- do just that. The OP wants to know if this is a red flag about the institution- not about this particular employee. And my suggestion is to ignore it as a red flag. Because unlike the Ritz Carlton, where you can get fired for not going the extra mile with a paying customer, and unlike Norwegian Cruise lines, which gives employees lessons in customer service interactions, and unlike Nordstrom, whose corporate culture embodies making each and every customer touch point something wonderful and positive- this particular college (whose identity i don’t know) does not share this corporate culture. My guess is that its mission is to preserve, advance, and teach knowledge in its many facets and divergent points of view, and that professors are neither hired nor groomed to make exchanging pleasantries with HS kids a critical part of their job.
