I don’t mean during an info session, when you might hear things like ‘most of you will not get in here’ or ‘we could easily admit a second freshman class just as good as the one we choose.’ I mean, an admissions counselor or dean considering your child’s GPA, SAT, ECs, etc, and saying something like, ‘Your chances of getting into this school are slim. I’d consider other schools.’ Maybe even giving recommendations for other colleges?
To say that to a group is ridiculous and insulting. But in a one on one meeting with an adcom it may be appropriate to dissuade the student from applying. There is a thread here on CC started by a student asking to be chanced at several Ivies and MIT. He had a 900/1600 SAT and a 3.0 GPA.
Yes. I had a friend who wanted to apply to ESF but someone from admissions told him not to apply. His reason was he didn’t had the math requirement
Interesting question. Yes. Not for colleges but boarding school. When my A student was being interviewed by Admissions Director at St. Paul’s, he told me in my parent interview that followed that “she wasn’t what they were looking for.” I was shocked. She was the full package, not just a top student academically. BTW, the story has a happy ending. She got into another top-notch boarding school, became a 3 year Varsity athlete, Cum Laude Society inductee, ivy college admitted, Harvard wait-listed and just matriculated to a top LAC of her choice. Obviously, his loss. He was short sighted and my daughter would have made a fabulous addition to their community. (Looking back, it may have been serendipitous on our part–she side stepped a potential ‘Senior Salute.’) He had only spent 10 minutes with her, and hadn’t had the opportunity to see her transcript or her rec letters, but made a snap decision.
I chalk it up to impertinence and inexperience both. Granted, he was new at the time. I don’t think he’d make such a snap decision today, or at least be bold enough to say that to a prospective family again. What it did was make her more determined to shine on her application. She put a lot of elbow grease into her app and essays and sent in a musical performance tape. Despite his early ‘no-go’ call, the admissions committee as a whole second guessed his decision and she was wait-listed.
I would say that type of behavior on the dean’s part in your story is ill-advised for the school. if nothing else it makes it seem their admissions decisions are capricious and NOT “holistic” as they all taut, and really at worst, offensive.
My neighbor’s daughter met with an admissions counselor informally at a local Starbucks. He was traveling back to school and agreed to stop and chat with her. He told her not to apply with her intended major because she would be rejected. He said if she applied “undecided” she would have a 50/50 shot at getting in.
I am always amazed at how people here turn any topic into an opportunity to brag about themselves or their kids.
On topic, a good friend of mine had an interviewer tell her (kindly) that he had never seen anyone with her SAT and GPA get in in all his years of interviewing when she asked. The interviewer knew this because, for some bizarre reason, the local alumni club required all interviewers to ask interviewees to send in this information.
It’s not bragging. My point is that having an admissions dean say that to a prospective hopeful is wrong. It stings and is unnecessary. Although in some circumstances (after all the data is reviewed), it may be helpful to a candidate, but not when done in an offensive way. I was backing up my assertion with evidence, that’s all. I’ve been there, and it’s not called for on the dean’s part. I’m trying to say that admissions folks can be impertinent and make snap judgments that they shouldn’t be making.
Yeah those stupid admissions officers are always so bad at knowing what admissions officers are thinking about when evaluating people for admissions. Who do they think they are, the people making the decisions?
I was also wondering about encounters at college fairs or open houses, or any informal conversations with prospective applicants. Because I assume the standard practice is encourage as many applicants as possible, to be inclusive and holistic, and also (cynically) to jack up applications and thereby lower percentage accepted.
This only applies to reps from top colleges. Most colleges will consider almost any student who applies.
CC followers are already aware that getting emails and lovely brochures in the mail do not mean anything. Though folks new to the college search, as we all once were, could presume these pitches are the same as any other sales pitches. The rule there is, if you have the money, you can get the product. Why else bombard me with these solicitations?
But if she got in as undeclared instead of her intended major and then enrolled, would she then have had to face another competitive admission process to get into her intended major?
Actually, many state universities have hard eligibility requirements. E.g. the list of high school course work is required, not just recommended or expected. At such schools, an admission person may say something like “do not bother applying unless you complete the currently missing course(s) in [whatever subject(s)]”.
There’s no excuse for bad manners, even for those who consider themselves ‘elite.’
It happened to my family friends; they have a set of twins and met with someone one-on-one to discuss their twins’ learning disabilities and other issues, and this person said it doesn’t sound like this is the school for them. I honestly agreed; the school was too much for them academically, and both twins had a crippling fear of leaving home. It would’ve been a struggle on multiple fronts and it seems like the admissions person picked up on that.
@ucbalumnus yes- and that is the problem that this student is dealing with right now. She got in as “undecided” and will be applying to this very competitive major by January. The girl is now telling her mother that if she does not get accepted to her major (her gpa right now is not near their average accepted gpa) then she may transfer. The sad part is that she did get into at least two schools as a direct admit and turned them down. Her advisor suggested an “easier” major and told her about grad school options.
I wish that the initial admissions counselor brought the conversation one step further and explained to her what it might be like if accepted as undeclared and then tried to get into the desired major. I also wish her parents had thought about that…
Yes, my son with perfect SAT scores was told by an admissions officer at Brown not to apply because during the conversation his Aspergers was discussed. She suggested Union, unsure why since he was interested in the open curriculum. This was one small reason my second son would not apply to Brown.
DS1 is currently a college junior who has adapted well socially and academically far from home with very limited supports (a single his 1st yr).
RE: Post #3 My first thought, if I was the parent hearing the comment from the admissions director would be “Heck, What did my child say that caused that kind of response?” An interview is about the subjective, about having a dialogue with the applicant and getting to know them BEYOND the stuff on paper. It’s about finding out who this student is (as much as you can do so in a short interview). It’s not about a discussion of grades, test scores, objective hard data. I’d want to know more. I’d want to know if my child had said something that could have been construed as un-PC or untoward or inappropriate. Although I might have been taken aback by the comment, I would definitely have asked why the admissions director felt that way and what made him say that. Not so much to counter the argument but to be aware for other interviews and applications. And, I would not have my child apply to that school if such a comment was made. Obviously, things turned out wonderfully for the poster’s daughter however I am surprised that an application was made and more questions weren’t asked to get some kind of clarity around the comment.
I don’t get why people don’t ask more questions when they hear some of these comments, including the ones about applying undecided vs. direct admit. Better to face the facts and be informed. I’d rather know what someone was thinking about me as an applicant than having them keep their mouth shut and not knowing. If I was interviewing for a job, I’d rather the interviewer be direct and say “You’re not what we need. You’re not what we’re looking for” than to leave me hanging and guessing, right? From that, I can adjust my strategy (or not) rather than spinning my wheels.
I agree @doschicos . While it may be difficult and disappointing to hear that your child "is not what they are looking for " I’d appreciate someone being upfront and truthful with my child and me. @preppedparent While I was not at the interview and did not hear the tone in which the comment was said , I don’t believe that saying someone is not what a school is looking for in and of itself is a rude statement .
Years ago I attended a 1-week summer program at West Point. The female counselor (a current cadet) advised me at the end of the week that I wouldn’t be a good fit. I was already quite aware of that!
In a private meeting and in delicate terms, yes. I heard this as an applicant myself.
@preppedparent: My kid also heard this from a prep school AO during an interview. MY D’s first impressions of the school were not great, but she was still a bit offended when she was told that it likely was not the right fit for her. The AO was correct-- and she asked whether D had considered another school, which she said might be a terrific choice for her. The school she suggested (which was not on our radar at all) was added to our list at the very end, and when we visited, D fell in love with the place. She is about to be a senior and it really has been the perfect fit. I think AOs know what they’re talking about… most of the time! Having said that, isn’t it usually true that colleges want as many applicants as possible, because that lowers their admit rate? At least that’s what I keep hearing…