So...how bad off am I?

<p>Hi, I'm nearing the end of the second semester of my freshman year, and I'm looking for an honest assessment of just howI am in regard to pursuing a career in medicine. I'm a Biochem major at a mediocre state school (LSU), and I've started off in dismal fashion. I finished my first semester with a 2.69 GPA, and though I'm doing slightly better this semester, I'm struggling to eek out a 3.09 and retain my financial aid. At this rate, I'm thinking that even a 3.6 at graduation would be optimistic. Though I chose Biochemistry because the pharmaceuticals industry has some appeal to me, I'm considering changing my major; possibly to Microbiology since General Chemistry has been a particular weakness for me, though I'm also even considering a switch to Philosophy since my brief experience with Philosophy has led me to believe that it's both interesting and an absolute breeze. Math has never been my strong suit, but I'm absolutely horrid at calculations in Chemistry and Calculus so far, and it's going to take some drastic improvement to succeed next semester (I've got Calculus II for Life Science Majors and Physics lined up). </p>

<p>I'm essentially looking for advice in regard to the changes I'm considering and any further insight that may be offered, as well as a rational assessment of my chances of getting into medical school given my situation thus far. It is my desire to become a surgeon (I've especially been enamored with orthopaedic surgery with a concentration in sports injuries), and there are few other paths that are of particular interest. </p>

<p>Thanks for reading.</p>

<p>A couple initial thoughts:</p>

<p>1) Don't worry about the fact that you're at LSU.
2) Please tell me the only reason you have Calc II on board is because it's required for you major.
3) Switching majors is fine. You should always pick something that you can be excited about.
4) How would you feel about going to PA school and then working with an Orthopod? Certainly a possibility.</p>

<p>I'll post more later.</p>

<p>Yes, Calc II is required for Biochemistry majors, but not Biological Sciences or Micro majors.</p>

<p>I think an important question is do you know why you "****ed up"? If you gave it your best and still have a gpa like that then you may not be able to compete in todays intense pre-med environment.</p>

<p>However, if you can, basically, maintain a GPA between 3.8-4.0 your next two years at LSU, score a decently high MCAT, you will have a chance at some MD schools. You will be fighting a major (and I mean major) uphill fight however. Many unsuccessful MD applicants recently will not have had a 3.0 their first year, so you are going to have to prove to an admission committee that you deserve to be one of those taking their places.</p>

<p>It can be done but it is going to be walking a tight rope.</p>

<p>Bigredmed,
What's wrong with calc II? I'm taking it right now and I'm a sociology major and I thoroughly enjoy it.</p>

<p>
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Don't worry about the fact that you're at LSU.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't get it. Why is everyone fine with the fact that someone goes to a low ranked state school and not with a community college? The way I see it, the level of academics is about the same and only UCs/top state schools and top privates/Ivys are harder. Moreover, premeds from a community college should be even better off since they would most likely transfer to top schools(e.g Berkeley) given the high grades premeds typically earn. So I ask again, why?</p>

<p>As for why I'm performing poorly, I don't think I made the transition from high school to college very well. I coasted through high school, and though I paid lip service to a change in my behavior heading into college, it's really been quite difficult to shake my established laziness. I think I've improved my habits from last semester, but I don't think I've improved much on one aspect in particular, which is practicing the calculations in Math and Chemistry. I'm expecting to get a C in both semesters of General Chem.</p>

<p>Thanks for the responses, guys.</p>

<p>14x - </p>

<p>1) VERY few people go from CC to "top schools". The data is out there that while something like 85% of students entering CC believe they will transfer to a 4 year school, fewer than half that number ever do, and even fewer graduate from a 4 year school.</p>

<p>2) Most students going to a CC are going because of cost, and as such are going to stay local, or instate at the very furthest. While you may live in CA and thus head to the UC's (which I think you're giving too much credit to the bottom schools in that system), your average CC student elsewhere doesn't have the UCLA's and UCB' to head to.</p>

<p>3) I think you're underestimating what's really going on at the so-called "low ranked state schools". LSU may not be highly ranked by USNWR, but it's still a Research I university - as are most Land-Grant institutions that you'd probably call "low ranked". That high level of research activity - along with the labs with research opportunities, the types of professors it attracts, the types of facilities on campus, etc - far exceeds your standard CC in which most profs DON'T have PhD's, there's very little or no research going on, and most students are too busy working to be involved on campus. The fact of the matter is that they're inherently unequal. No matter how much you believe youre being challenged at CC, and how easy a course at LSU might be, perception is going to say that academics at the 4 year school are superior. Further, as I've discussed time and time again, the lack of continuity that going to a CC requires - due to moving from place to place - is without a doubt detrimental to some degree to any and every applicant that goes there. It's not just the academics.</p>

<p>4) The bottom line remains - going to CC is not a death sentence, but it's certainly no feather in your cap. It does have negative effects, and given how competitive the med school admissions game is, I (and the others on this board) can't in good conscious recommend it unless there are extenuating reasons for attendance.</p>

<p>@ departed: There's nothing inherently wrong about Calc II, just that for many people, math is not a strong point, and it's a class with little relevance to medical school. Further, very few medical schools require it. So in most cases it's a risky class gradewise with only minimal/variable benefits on the back end. Given that Fried Rice is complaining about having difficulty in math classes already, it's not wise he takes that class unless he's required to in order to complete his intended major. </p>

<p>@ Fried Rice:
You're in a bad spot - you know that. While I DON'T think you have to give up the dream RIGHT NOW, you are walking on the razor's edge...one bad semester, and you're sunk. It's impossible to say exactly what your chances are without an MCAT score, but you have to get a minimum 3.4 GPA by graduation to have really any hope at all. Certainly you need the highest MCAT score you can. I don't like to say that a certain MCAT score is going to make or break you, but you'll be a lot more competitive with a 33+ than you will with a 30...unless you happen to be an underrepresented minority. A little exploration of other career options would be a smart thing to do for you (and every other pre-med - even if they have a 4.0) regardless. Certainly DO schools, followed by Physician's Assistant are important options if you're tied to a surgical subspecialty. Other options such as Optometry and nursing (with the idea of eventually becoming a Nurse Anesthetist or Nurse Practitioner) do exist.</p>

<p>Assuming that I'm able to come out with a 3.1 this year, it's very possible that I could have a 3.2 going into next year with an A in the Introductory Spanish class I'm taking over the summer. While not favorable, with all A's first semester of sophomore year I would be sitting at a 3.44, which would at least put me in striking range of something decent like a 3.7 (though apparently that's already starting to become below average). I'm optimistic about the MCAT because I've always performed well on standardized tests with no preparation, though I'm not sure that the connection between high ACT/SAT scores and high MCAT scores is as strong as I once thought. Unfortunately I'm a white male, though I plan to emphasize my Cajun ethnicity as it appears to have paid dividends for some people who have applied to prestigious graduate programs. If I have trouble getting into med school, I plan to give it a few tries while working and going to school part time. If that doesn't work out, then I'll just have to explore my options at that point. PA school is something that I'm going to be considering, as they seem to have a fairly more prominent role in the OR than I once thought. Thank you for the advice, I'm really going through an uncertain period right now.</p>

<p>Re #8: 41.</p>

<p>And it's not the end of the world if you don't go directly from college to med school. Work for a year in a field related to health care, get a Master's in Public health, something, and then apply again. If you want to badly enough, you'll find a way to get in. One guy in my class worked as a lineman for a utility company, is in his late 30's with two high-school age daughters, and enrolled. Another taught high-school chemistry for five years out of college before she decided she wanted to do medicine. There's more than one way to get there.</p>

<p>@Bigredmed. Yeah I agree that it is bad to go to a CC. But have you ever considered </p>

<p>2yrs at top school+2yrs at no name CC > 4yrs at no name state? </p>

<p>
[quote]
VERY few people go from CC to "top schools". The data is out there that while something like 85% of students entering CC believe they will transfer to a 4 year school, fewer than half that number ever do, and even fewer graduate from a 4 year school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not so much from my experience. I am aware that there are people failing/barely passing in CC. But this is hardly the case for engineering, science and premed students. For example, half of my diff eq class had gotten acceptances from Berkeley last year. All of my friends are "smart". Many of them scored high on the SAT but were international students so the CC route was best. Some of them are mathmatically talented( one of them took 50ith out of 500k students in a math competition). But maybe my CC is different. Which brings up another point. Some CCs are better than others. Even to the point of being better than some 4yr university. For example, Monta Vista high, merely a high school is arguably more rigorous than San Jose State or even UC Merced. Or consider Andover and Exeter. Both prep schools are arguably more rigorous than most of the UCs, let alone San Jose State. So overlap does occur. If it works for high schools, why not CCs? </p>

<p>
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I (and the others on this board) can't in good conscious recommend it unless there are extenuating reasons for attendance.

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<p>I agree. I regret going to one. But thats not my argument.</p>

<p>example, of course, IMO</p>

<p>2 years cc 4.0 + 2 years top school 3.4 << 3.8 over four years at a non-UC (whatever that means) state school...</p>

<p>Of course. The average gpa for those that were accepted was a 3.7. In doing a comparative analysis, one must hold all factors besides the independent variable equal, including gpa.</p>

<p>
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The average gpa for those that were accepted was a 3.7.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I meant median not average. Sorry.</p>

<p>
[quote]
LSU may not be highly ranked by USNWR, but it's still a Research I university - as are most Land-Grant institutions that you'd probably call "low ranked". That high level of research activity - along with the labs with research opportunities, the types of professors it attracts, the types of facilities on campus, etc - far exceeds your standard CC in which most profs DON'T have PhD's, there's very little or no research going on, and most students are too busy working to be involved on campus.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Another useful way to think about it is in terms upward mobility. Most people from a high school(lets say a low ranked one for arguments sake) wouldn't even dream of going to San Jose State. Even though SJSU is more prestigious than the HS. They would much rather go to a more prestigious university. But in order to get there, they have to start somewhere. Hence they excel in highschool so they get into the school of their dreams. Moreover, they would rather spend all 4yrs in highschool getting good grades in order to get accepted by their dream school than matriculate early, say at age 16, into a low ranked state school such as SJSU. Such is understandable behavior. Basically what I'm trying to say is that you've got to start somewhere. If some has to start at a CC so they can go to a top school, then fine so be it. Of course, you can say my analysis is faulty because CCs aren't HSs. But effectively it is. For many, its function is to serve as a step to the higher level. The the same function high schools serve. Its the designation that matters. </p>

<p>
[quote]
While you may live in CA and thus head to the UC's (which I think you're giving too much credit to the bottom schools in that system), your average CC student elsewhere doesn't have the UCLA's and UCB' to head to.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The UCs encourages students to go a CC for the 1st two years. Its part of the California Master plan. Hence it would be extremely hypocritical for UCs to make having 2yrs of a CC transcript a disadvantage at their schools.</p>

<p>In doing a comparative analysis, one must hold all factors besides the independent variable equal, including gpa.</p>

<p>i wasn't doing a comparative analysis. i was making a statement.</p>

<p>Whats a PA school. I'm in the same boat as you fried rice, but my GPA is better. I just hope its like applying for college where they see that you improve your gpa every semester and take that into consideration. In high school I took 10 ap courses and it all seemed easy, didnt even study at all. College sucks. If i dont become a doctor, I'm going to be a hermit and live in a mountain somewhere. or go Alaska crab fishing.</p>

<p>Physician's Assistant School</p>