So, how will grade curve really affect the students' future?

Colleges & Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
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<p>My D is now choosing between Cal and Princeton. The former is cheaper and closer to home. And, supposedly, has a great linguistics program which she is interested in. And not bad music program, as we have heard. (She is music and languages ... well, humanities person).The latter is ... well, Ivy, prestigious, East Coast etc. ;) Very tempting.</p>

<p>One of our big concerns in comparing both options is: how hard is it on students in terms of competetiveness, workload, effort for the grade in view of those grading curve/grade deflation policies? In other words, will the bright student be able to achieve the grades decent enough to get into good grad schools without sacrifising her health and sanity?</p>

<p>Her academic workload at high school has been insane - not so much of AP classes as the workload in each of them. :( And, knowing how competitive the admission proccess is nowadays (as well as being naturally crazyly perfectionistic) she always did her best to get all A's (and did get them) as well as spent more time on her ECs than it was good for her well-being (yes, she enjoyed most of those activities, but never knew when to stop). All that noticeably affected her health. </p>

<p>It's clear now that she can't continue the same lifestyle in college. We urge her to include the fair amount of fitness classes into her schedule and, generally, as it seems there is no such a need to get ALL A's in college as it was in h/s (and no need to mount so many ECs - just a few to enjoy should be enough?), try and have more of sleep, fresh air and physical activities.</p>

<p>But DD is afraid of not being able to do that as "everybody will be so smart and the schools' policies will make us compete for the good grades". </p>

<p>So, I wonder:</p>

<p>a)how hard is it to get an "A" for humanities classes in Cal? Approximately, on average, how many hours of work weekly is expected for an "A" in each class?</p>

<p>b)The same for "B's": how hard and how much ... and will getting "B's" compromise the student's chances for good grad schools?</p>

<p>c)What do Cal students do to both maintain their grades AND health/physical shape/sanity?</p>

<p>I'm going to ask the same questions on Princeton page. ;)</p>

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<p>Linguistics does not grade harshly and the workload is not heavy. That said, the subject matter can get rather abstract, some people are cut out for it, some aren't. Humanities courses generally don't grade too hard and generally the work load is not unreasonable. </p>

<p>Getting a B+ in Humanities classes shouldn't be very difficult for a bright student. Hard work usually will get you an A-. Going from A- to A, though, sometimes can be challenging, especially in upper division Humanities classes, for instance in philosophy. Depends on a lot of factors though.</p>

<p>The concern people have with grades comes with math/science courses. As I've said before, it's not that they are competitive. The issue is that the standards are very high. People imagine these classes with geniuses bunched up at the top, grades being divided up and top students getting Cs. That's not what happens at all. What is really going on is that students who aren't meeting the high standards are getting Cs or lower, instead of getting a gentleman's B like they expect.</p>

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<p>MY D decided to choose Berkeley over Pomona.
I thought Pomona was a good fit for her. But she fell in love with Berkeley.<br>
Hope my D can see your D at Berkeley. She is very shy.</p>

<p>Unlike HSY, Princeton is lot like LAC.</p>

<p>Small Campus, Weak GS. P doesn't have any professional schools.
(Med, Law, Business.)</p>

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<p>A majority of the GSIs I have encountered in humanities classes have been extremely nice and helpful. As long as you're willing to put in the work, I don't think it's hard at all to get As in those types of classes, especially if you choose to go to office hours. As an intended Mechanical Engineering major, these humanities classes are much easier in comparison.</p>

<p>The RSF is a great resource to stay in shape. There are a bunch of exercise machines as well as classes one can take. Also, there are many clubs around campus that cater to staying in good physical shape (ie. the running club). </p>

<p>UC</a> Berkeley Recreational Sports.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your replies.</p>

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<p>Mine prefers Berkeley to Pomona, too. ;) I also think that Pomona is more suitable for her personality, but she wants more space and choice (of classes, people, activities ...) and more exciting location. ;) But as Berkeley is cheaper, I won't argue with her. ;)</p>

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<p>Which classes would you recommend for a non-athletic student? ;) Are they easy to get into?</p>

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<p>PE classes are offered year round. You can get a taste on telebears.
RSF pass for students is pretty cheap at $10... but I believe thats because the original $90 or so is now just bundled into the tuition.. from what I've heard. haha</p>

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<p>Humanities grad schools don't really care about courses that don't apply to the graduate program. Of course, higher GPA overall is always good! But they aren't going to pay too much attention to a B or B+ in a science GE or something along those lines.</p>

<p>RSF is $10 per semester, and the "Group X" classes (group exercise -- spinning, kickboxing, yoga, mat pilates, etc.) are included with this fee. If she'd like something a little more concrete like a sports club, there are plenty to go around but they charge dues as any club might. I know fencing is wholly open to new members and they provide all the equipment you need to practice AND compete, and it's only $90 a semester to join.</p>

<p>From what I've seen, most clubs are open to beginners and non-athletic students. The non-athletic part might make it hard for her to compete at a high level, but if she's non-athletic that's probably not the point for her anyway.</p>

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<p>Remember that if your kid was to take science/math classes simply because she was interested, there are lots of options. There are many Science/Math classes that are not in the Engineering discipline. These tend to be much easier. I breezed through an astro class which I took simply because I was interested. </p>

<p>Also, I feel at Cal the grades in Math/Science classes are really based off of interest more so than knowledge.</p>

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<p>By the way! </p>

<p>One of the cool things about Cal is the amount of P/NP credits you're allowed to take. Up to 30% of your total units -- that's a whopping 9 classes of 4 units each of the 120 credits needed to graduate -- are allowed to be taken P/NP. If she really wants to branch out and try something new but she's too worried about how it will affect her GPA, just keep that in mind.</p>

<p>There are, of course, restrictions. She's not going to want to exercise that option for any of the courses that would be relevant to graduate school, for example. However, taking that physics class for no other reason than because she wants to branch out and not be humanities only? Go for P/NP.</p>

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<p>Just to note: linguistics is not generally classified under "humanities." Many HS students think that since they "like languages" they will like linguistics, but it's an entirely different field of study, which touches on anthropology, psychology, and neuroscience-- not really fields which one would consider "humanities." A solid knowledge of statistics is necessary for linguists.</p>

<p>Berkeley has a great ling department.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
linguistics is not generally classified under "humanities."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is true.</p>

<p>
[quote]
A solid knowledge of statistics is necessary for linguists.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Maybe for some specific areas of study, but that's not true in general. You don't need to know or study statistics to be a linguistics major, and for most of what linguistics is about, statistics doesn't come into play at all.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Berkeley has a great ling department.

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</p>

<p>This I agree with.</p>

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<p>We know that. :) My D somewhat explored the subject and considers it now as her main interest. It satisfies both her analitical mind (she is actually good in math and sciences :)) and her interest in everything "language-related" and "human-related".</p>

<p>Could you tell us more about Berkeley's ling department? While she visited Cal, some graduate student told her about various linguistics theories and that Cal's linguistis mostly pursue one of them, which might or might not be true or particularly interesting for her. </p>

<p>While I have no idea what it's all about ;), I would be glad to have any inputs on the subject from knowledgeable people here, so that I'd give it to my D to read and decide.</p>

<p>Also, I'd like some replies on another important subject: the stress level. Generally, Berkeley has a reputation of a stressful place. What exactly the stress-causing problems are there? Which of them might affect the student who is planning to doble-major (or major and minor) in linguistics and music, learn languages and, maybe exploring other academic fields (political science, international relations, economics, computers)?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
t's clear now that she can't continue the same lifestyle in college. We urge her to include the fair amount of fitness classes into her schedule and, generally, as it seems there is no such a need to get ALL A's in college as it was in h/s

[/quote]

I was under the impression it was the other way around. In HS, it's ok to get a few Bs and still get into a good college. College GPA on the other hand, determines the chances of getting hired after graduation as well as better chances for grad school, which is regarded much more highly on a resume than undergrad prestige.</p>

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<p>I think I met your daughter this weekend at OHP!
She asked the stress questions during Q&A but I think you can only get that really generic answer of "You have to balance things and know when too much is too much." </p>

<p>Berkeley is such an easy going town and there are a ridiculous amount of fun ECs to get involved in so it's real easy to unwind. Aside from the student gym, you basically have to walk everywhere. I know I felt muscle contractions walking up the incline to latimer and morgan. It was ridiculous.</p>