So, how will grade deflation really affect the students' future?

Colleges & Universities A-Z Princeton University
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<p>My D is now choosing between Berkeley and Princeton. The former is cheaper and closer to home. And, supposedly, has a great linguistics program which she is interested in. And not bad music program, as we have heard. (She is music and languages ... well, humanities person).The latter is ... well, Ivy, prestigious, East Coast, gorgeous campus, exptremely bright students, etc. Very tempting.;)</p>

<p>One of our big concerns in comparing both options is: how hard is it on students in terms of competetiveness, workload, effort for the grade in view of those grading curve/grade deflation policies? In other words, will the bright student be able to achieve the grades decent enough to get into good grad schools without sacrifising her health and sanity?</p>

<p>Her academic workload at high school has been insane - not so much of AP classes as the workload in each of them. And, knowing how competitive the admission proccess is nowadays (as well as being naturally crazyly perfectionistic) she always did her best to get all A's (and did get them) as well as spent more time on her ECs than it was good for her well-being (yes, she enjoyed most of those activities, but never knew when to stop). All that noticeably affected her health. </p>

<p>It's clear now that she can't continue the same lifestyle in college. We urge her to include the fair amount of fitness classes into her schedule and, generally, as it seems there is no such a need to get ALL A's in college as it was in h/s (and no need to mount so many ECs - just a few to enjoy should be enough?), try and have more of sleep, fresh air and physical activities.</p>

<p>But DD is afraid of not being able to do that as "everybody will be so smart and the schools' policies will make us compete for the good grades". </p>

<p>So, I wonder:</p>

<p>a)how hard is it to get an "A" for humanities classes in Princeton? Approximately, on average, how many hours of work weekly is expected for an "A" in each class?</p>

<p>b)The same for "B's": how hard and how much ... and will getting "B's" compromise the student's chances for good grad schools?</p>

<p>c)What do Princeton students do to both maintain their grades AND health/physical shape/sanity?</p>

<p>I'm going to ask the same questions on Berkeley page. ;)</p>

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<p>I will try to answer your questions--</p>

<p>First of all, I want to emphasize that there is no competition for grades. The numbers are a guidline, not a rule. In humanities classes there's no real way to "compete" as you are mostly writing papers. In the sciences, I have found that you are in more trouble if you try to "compete" by not working in groups than if you help each other out. </p>

<p>a) It is difficult to get an "A" in humanities classes, I have found, although it is relatively easy to get an A-. That is not to say that its impossible to get an A. I would say that the default grade in most classes is a B+, if you do slightly worse than average you will get a B, if you do better you will get an A-, and if you do much better than you will get an A. </p>

<p>I wouldn't say that theres an expectation of number of hours. At princeton it is more about how you think than how much you can memorize, etc. Most of the assignments in humanities classes are papers, and obviously the amount of time it takes to write a paper varies between people. There is a lot of reading (usually ~200-300 pages a week), but just doing the reading will not get you an A. For math/science classes the amount of time could be more defined, as there are usually weekly problem sets. The amount of time that you need to spend on the problem set depends on the class, but is probably a couple of hours. </p>

<p>In terms of GPA and graduate schools/jobs, I think it might depend. It hasn't affected me at all, I got a job at a top-3 management consulting firm (something that is supposed to rely on GPA) with no experience, and I was accepted to every graduate school that I applied to (and I only applied to top 10 schools). My GPA is about average for princeton, as I have moved between the 2nd and 3rd quintile. I think it helps to have >3.5, but I don't know how much it matters above that. For professional schools, if you have high LSAT or MCAT scores and a decent GPA I think you should be fine. I have several friends going to harvard law school, and friends who have been accepted at top medical schools. </p>

<p>In terms of maintaining sanity, most students do not spend all that much time studying. People tend to get really involved in extra curriculars (hence the catch-up that happens during reading period/finals). Also, the gym is well attended and offers lots of classes, and many students play IM sports. </p>

<p>I hope that helps, I would be happy to answer any other questions.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your reply.</p>

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<p>What is the difference between "A" and "A-" in terms of good job/grad school chances? And what if you get mostly "B's" in Princeton - will any employers/grad schools be still interetsed in you?</p>

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<p>myau - we are from the Bay Area too. My daughter attended one of the private Catholic high schools. She too got straight As in high school, the only A- was in PE;). </p>

<p>At Princeton she gets As in the classes in her major, and in the classes she has a special interest in. The rest are Bs. I think she is in the 2nd quintile.</p>

<p>She works hard, but has a LOT of time for the rest of her life. Sleep isn't really one of her activities most of the time, but she is more than surviving.</p>

<p>We aren't really worried about grade deflation. I think the kids to ask are the pre-law, pre-med kids. Although if ec1234 has gotten a job offer from a top management consulting firm, well, you have to assume his/her 2nd -3rd quintile GPA from Princeton is pretty darn impressive. Congrats ec.</p>

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<p>Please see this link for information that Princeton has provided on the effect of its grading policy. Princeton</a> University - Dean of the College - FAQ</p>

<p>It’s pretty clear that the vast majority of grades given out are A’s and B’s. As to the question “What do Princeton students do to both maintain their grades AND health/physical shape/sanity,” the answer is going to vary from student to student. This may be unusual, but my child actually eats much healthier and exercises much more regularly at Princeton than when in high school. I think a healthy life style is among the ways my child remains sane.
Also, as alummother says for her child, there are several periods during each semester when my child’s consumption of energy drinks each night far exceeds the number of hours slept. Between study and ECs, in which my child is heavily involved, there is not a lot of down time, but my child prefers to be busy.</p>

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<p>if by grad school you actually mean grad school and not professional school, then there is very little difference between an A and an A-. The grad schools are much more interested in your letters of recommendation and your research. They like princeton kids because princeton students have to do 4 semesters of independent work. Plus the people that you get to write your recommendations are awesome, and in the world of academia who you know matters. Professional schools are a bit more grade conscious- so I;ve heard, but if you do well on the LSAT or MCAT you can offset a slightly lower GPA, especially since they know that there is grade deflation at princeton. My average GPA is around a 3.5, so a mix of B+ and A- grades, with a couple of As each year. Very few people get mostly Bs, and if you are getting mostly Bs then you need a new major, or are in a major that will gain you respect post-princeton like math or physics. Every is impressed by a princeton math major, no matter what you do with the rest of your life.</p>

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<p>no, princeton is not easy. you will spend most of your time trying to make all As if you choose to do.</p>

<p>if you keep score in dollars, connections and knowing stuff that makes money is more important</p>

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<p>Grade deflation is not something to worry about. The average effect on ones GPA will be negligible (I hear it should be about .1), and employers and grad schools keep in mind the fact that different institutions grade differently--that's why they use standardized tests as well. If this is all that's keeping someone away from somewhere like Princeton, then don't worry about it: Princeton will be amazing, and your daughter will have all the opportunities available to her at some other school (and, might I add, probably moreso since it IS Princeton!) I remember the University of Chicago had a speech where the average difference in income from a 2.8 vs. 3.8 GPA at Chicago was about 9%--and that's actually a significant difference, and this is among just students from Chicago. When Princeton's all go down by .1 as a whole, this will not have an effect: employers recognize this and adjust accordingly, and she's not at a disadvantage compared to her peers. All this does is make the humanities grading more similar to sciences (like, might I add, Chicago has been known for doing).</p>