Regarding post 393: Clearly you (prospect1) misinterpreted me. I was talking about the narrow category of natural virtue as defined by “hard work.” The harder the work, theoretically the greater the “reward” bestowed. I wasn’t talking about honesty and other aspects of personal integrity (not cheating, etc.). I’m in great favor of moral character (or conversely, the lack of it) being considered in admissions decisions, hiring decisions, and obviously personal relationships decisions.
A recent example I have:
One of my college app students applied to a few Elites, one of those in the Early Round. I mentioned this student probably on this thread, maybe another – certainly within the last 10 days. Her teacher recommendation was rather unusual and made her qualitatively stand out from even other excellent recs for students; it was also an accurate rec, judged by all who know her. That, combined with her brain, her obvious joyful enthusiasm & excitement for learning deeply, her facility simultaneously for STEM and for humanities, and her musical accomplishment, resulted in her Early acceptance to that school + a LL to another Elite shortly thereafter. Yet, according to her parents’ peers and relatives, it was strictly about “her hard work.” In fact, those who didn’t get similar acceptances supposedly (according to those adults) must not have worked hard enough.
B…S…
This is SUCH a failure to understand U.S. college admissions, but it’s a prevalent MYTH in some cultures. (i.e., the way things supposedly “should” be, and if they aren’t that way, then sheer racism or other sinister forces must be at play).
@prospect1 Even if permitted, we still wouldn’t know if he obtained the letters from a classmate who got in. I think this is one of those Rumsfeld things - we can’t know what we don’t know. Was that the quote???
@epiphany - I understand you completely and agree with you…that “certain something” that some applicants have (i.e., a true commitment to learning and a natural curiosity, etc.) is what makes the difference at the most elite level. All of the “hard work” in the world cannot make up for this quality, if it is missing in an applicant. My post meant to acknowledge that, and then dive into my thoughts on morality as a separate matter, since that seems to be the focus on what is the problem with this particular OP.
I suppose your observations on what makes a truly elite applicant, and my observations about morality, could be linked in that OP’s applications likely will not include the type of third party recommendation that your student example was able to proffer in her applications. But his applications also are unlikely to include any recommendations claiming that he is of low moral character either. Where will this get him? I guess we will find out - anecdotally and anonymously, of course.
I don’t have time to respond to everyone’s comments on morality individually. But I will quote Ragnar Redbeard, and I think you could all use a little of his advice:
"The big fish eat the little fish – the big trees (by absorbing & monopolizing the nutriment) ‘eat up’ the little trees – the strongest animals eat the weakest animals and so on – ad infinitum. If the animal (includes humans) world could become ‘moralized,’ and equalized, it would also become extinct. Eat or be eaten. Be a lion or a lamb.” ~ Ragnar Redbeard, Might is Right
No, epiphany. Lying should not be necessary. If you want to be an amoral creature, thats your choice. You’ll fit right in at some IB houses. Heck, why not start a ponzi scheme now? You could use an extra EC on your list.
fretfulmother,
I am hoping that he’s just a wiseguy HS’er who thinks he’s smarter than all the experienced college students, parents and professionals here. Otherwise I am feeling pity. Can’t tell when he is serious or not. Hoping the whole thing is a propos of his screenname.
FWIW, I ran Baloney’s self-reported numbers through ApplyMap the website that uses conditional probability to calculate admissions chances. Individually, his schools are reaches but collectively there is a 90% probability
that he will get admitted to at least one top 30 school (USNWR Ranking).
jym626,
I responded in agreement to your post 405, but in the meantime, someone else posted, unbeknownst to me; and you thought I was agreeing with someone who opposed you. Then fretfulmother came in and clarified to you that “he” (meaning apparently I, epiphany, and female) was “being sarcastic.” (I think she meant, echoing your sarcasm.) That’s right, I was echoing your comment about the honor council!
I’m not going to bother trying to understand that convoluted exchange between jym and epiphany, and I think it’s time for me to retire from this thread until results come in.
To everyone who agrees with me - I think you made the right choice.
To everyone who disagrees - thank you for the input and your opinions. Let’s stay away from personal insults and general bitterness in the future.
One last thought-- you do know that college reps periodically peruse cc and can match up stats to applicants… Hope you come across smelling like a rose to them.
