<p>And how is all of this political posturing supposed to help the OP?</p>
<p>Jack,</p>
<p>I agree with others that your choice of words (declaring others must be "brain dead", etc.) is very poor. Do you categorize most people who have a different opinion than yours to be 'brain-dead'? It sounds as if you've had little to no contact with members of the military, their intelligence level, and their reasons for joining. </p>
<p>There are many who do join the military for patriotic reasons as well as for other opportunities and experiences. Career military people 'do their job' through the administrations of many presidents of both political parties and through all kinds of conflicts. Pick a 20 or 30 year time span and consider the variety of administrations and conflicts these people have served under.</p>
<p>And don't forget, not all of our military is serving in the Middle East. We still have military serving elsewhere in the world as well as in the USA. Depending on the job the person ends up with it may be a year or more before that person has been trained adequately to even start their job.</p>
<p>Sharing of all opines in some small way accomodates what OP asked for. There is much support for finishing college and much support for joining AF. How folks come to their advice or opine differs.
[quote]
**So the question for parents here; what advice would you give your kids in this situation? I've been debating the question of whether to finish up college or just enlist constantly for a week now.
[/quote]
**</p>
<p>Pretty clear request.......he didn't say support my decision to enlist.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I suggest that you consider applying to the U.S</a>. Air Force Academy. That option would alllow you to complete a college education and would aloso provide you with the opportunity to serve as an Air Force Officer. I promise that if you attend USAFA, you will definitely be challenged.</p>
<p>As a second option, I would suggest that you pursue ROTC opportunities with both the Air Force and Navy. The Navy has many career fields besides surface warfare. Both the Air Force and Navy ROTC offer 2-year scholarships.</p>
<p>I honestly don't look at people who do something like this as wonderful patriots; my immediate thought is-- they must be really stupid, or possibly brain-dead. </p>
<p>Well, all I can say is that my son defends your right to think/write that way. He didn't sign up to fight what you may consider an unjust war; he signed up to serve his country. You're part of that country. Be thankful. And, if you can't say anything nice about them, maybe you should reconsider posting on a site that has several active duty/retired military, military mom & dads.</p>
<p>GTAPlayer- I would consider finishing college, then exploring your military options. There have been some sound words of wisdom that have preceeded my posting, so I won't even try to add to that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
frankly, I think you'd have to be completely out of your mind to join today. I honestly don't look at people who do something like this as wonderful patriots; my immediate thought is-- they must be really stupid, or possibly brain-dead.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You should drop to your knees and thank whatever god you pray to that there are people out there willing to lay it on the line so that you can be free to post inane drivel on the internet. :mad:</p>
<p>
[quote]
My 2 cents.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Grossly overpriced. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>To the OP: The military is just like any other organization out there; it has it's good points and its bad points. Just be sure that you know all the details before you go in, and you get everything IN WRITING.</p>
<p>The military can be one of the most personally rewarding experiences a person can have. It can also be a pretty bad one if you don't do your homework, and the current world situation has nothing to do with either. If you chose not to join, then so be it. If chose to wear the uniform, however, you will be among the best and brightest this nation has to offer, and you will carry that pride until the day you die.</p>
<p>You will also have the pleasure of being to laugh at idiots like the guy I quoted above when they run their mouths off about stuff they know nothing about. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Good luck. :)</p>
<p>The question asked "what advice would you give your kids"......</p>
<p>Realizing I am jumping into this very late in the discussion....</p>
<p>First, before there can be answers, there needs to be questions...
So my first question to you is how old are you now?
Where have your experiences led you thus far?
Where do you see your life going?
Do you have a plan?
Have you explored all the options available to get there?
Where do your interests lie?
What do you enjoy doing?</p>
<p>It's very hard sometimes for a 17-18-19 year old to know "what is the best plan for me"..... most tend to live by the seat of their pants.... mind you, that is "most," not "all."</p>
<p>There are some that have a solid plan-know where they are headed, how they want to get there....most young adults don't.
Not sure if that describes you or not.
I will venture to say that your very question indicates you have reached a fork in the road, not sure of which path to take. Understandable.</p>
<p>Which, perhaps, is one reason you should take a pause for some self-reflection....think about the questions posted above, and were you are in the process of living the rest of your life.</p>
<p>Education, no matter which road you take, is, IMO, a "must have." No matter if you choose business, or embark on that military career- the more knowledge you have at your fingertips, the more successful you will be. How you measure that success is as varied as the color spectrum, but there is not a doubt in my mind that education is never wasted and is, in and of itself, a life-long journey.</p>
<p>Putting on the uniform is a very noble endeavor. It is not for everyone. And contrary to the suggestion that it requires a cessation of thought, it is just the opposite- it requires a great deal of thought, especially in light of the times we live in. My son is headed on that path. Not sure it was the path I dreamed about for him when rocking him as a baby, or the one I would have chosen for him as he approached his college years, but it is not my choice to make. It is his. My job is to support, encourage, mentor and guide as best I can, to make sure his choice is based on the best information I can expose him to. But the choice is his alone to make. Just as it is yours. </p>
<p>Perhaps college is not right for you now.</p>
<p>If "partying" got in the way, perhaps another year of maturity will be of benefit. Our son did a year of "prep" between HS and USNA- while it was not part of the origonal "plan", it became the plan if USNA was to be the "choice." I can honestly say the year was worth every minute spent of his time- in maturity alone. </p>
<p>If "boring classes" got in the way, added to the maturity factor could be the wrong class-headed-to-career path.</p>
<p>Sounds like you are either not ready, not hungry enough to "learn all there is to know', not passionate about what it is you are doing/studying, or plain old "just have had enough education for now and need a break 'cause my head just isn't into it right now because I have so much other things going on to distract me and anyway I am not sure I want this and not sure where I am going so why bother anyway ....."..... you are not alone, trust me! There are lots of kids wasting mom and dad's $$$ while they figure it all out. That you recognize it for yourself puts you a step ahead, IMO.</p>
<p>Having said that, not sure jumping into the military is the only option remaining. And for someone who seems not ready to "commit," this option looms huge on the commitment scale.</p>
<p>So what to do.
Perhaps taking a year off, getting some work experience, and gaining some maturity- all can help in pointing you in the right direction for YOU. Right now it sounds like you have it narrowed down to "either-or," when in reality the options are limitless- if you take the time out to really consider them.</p>
<p>IMO- we are walking contradictions.... we waste our youth "always in a hurry" to "grow up" and get on with our lives.... and our old age trying to slow the clock down! So my advice to you is to take some time out to sort it out before venturing down a path that is not right for you!</p>
<p>Not sure where to start? Go back to "go".... if you are really in the dark, start with an "interest inventory"... lots of standardized tests out there that can take your level of interests and suggest a career path to consider. </p>
<p>If you come back to "get an education," have a goal in mind- know where you are headed with that education, lest you remain a student all of your life, or worst still, hating the job you are in. Start classes when you are ready to commit. Get involved with what you are studying. </p>
<p>If you come back to the "military".... then my advice to you is to dig beneath the glossy "we want you" ads. Do talk to vets- from all wars- they have BTDT.... and it isn't all guts and glory. It is a noble profession for sure- but one with high risk. Before choosing that path, understand- fully- where it can lead. Volunteer at the nearest VA hospital for a month. Visit. Talk. Listen. It was something we had our son do as part of his education as to "which path to take"..... Go in with eyes wide open.</p>
<p>When, and only when, you have collected all the data available to you, weighed all your options, both in the short term and long term, examine them in terms of how they fit into your life's plan- only then make a choice. Once made, don't look back, and let nothing deter you from your goal- no matter which path you take. </p>
<p>Best of luck! Choices are hard- but be thankful we live in a country that offers us lots to choose from! Choose wisely, young grasshopper! And if it is the military path, God Speed!</p>
<p>Jack, get used to the "word police" who want to argue the nuances of your choice of words. They are a group that decended on these boards a few years ago, much to lower the quality of discourse here.</p>
<p>At any rate, I would hardly view a poster like latetoschool as the final word on the topic especially when someone like that tries to "pull rank" as if his experience is the final word.</p>
<p>And for the quote
[quote+Jack, you really are missing some critical information in this area. Just two weeks ago I had the opportunity to spend a full day, plus dinner into the evening, with some of the top generals and the commanding officer of a special unit. These gentleman are nothing short of brilliant (and their CVs are incredible), and the work they do is cutting edge - the front line work of the war fighter is a small fraction of the overall body of work.
[/quote]
all I can say is that for every¨"brilliant" person in the military you will find thousands who are, shall we say, at the lower half of the bell curve. These "stars" are the exception, perhaps why they are always strutted out and stick in one´s mind.</p>
<p>The military, including the airforce, can be a great career for some folks, but it is not a place for everyone, and is a whole lot more risky to one´s life and wellbeing than it was a few years back. Will this continue? not my call.</p>
<p>If you are contemplating a career in the military, then keep in mind that in many cases promotion depends on receiving a higher degree. At any one time there are quite a few members of the military enrolled in universities to learn a language and get a Masters degree in some particular discipline and/or the study of an area of the world. Without a degree, I doubt you will be able to rise far.</p>
<p>Sorry to derail any further, but newmassdad, the military usually stays pretty near the middle of the education bell curve, except it does not usually accept those at the very bottom. (The military has a 15-20% higher average of those with at least HS diplomas vs. the general population.)</p>
<p>Back on topic:
The "eyes open" advice is priceless! DO RESEARCH! Look at the costs and benefits of staying in college, joining ROTC, enlisting, working outside, and other ideas. Then, decide which is the best path for YOU.</p>
<p>I cannot express enough gratitude for the men and women serving our country. The final choice is obviously yours, but I do hope you will sit down and seriously consider the pros and the cons. Have you talked to anyone who has recently been to the front lines? I can't help but think of my nephew's best friend (19 ... the same age as my daughter and my nephew). He's currently on the front line, serving as a sharpshooter. His mom reports he is scared ... I would think anyone in his position would be. I do think we ask a lot of our young adults to know what they want to do with the rest of their lives when they're 18 or 19. My DD has had the same plan of action since her h.s. sophomore year, but I frequently tell her "Just because you say it doesn't mean you have to do it. You're 19 ... you can change your mind and it will be okay. We just want you to be happy." If you join the service, you really can't change your mind, at least for a while. Have you considered taking some time from school and finding a job that would allow you to take additional time to consider your future? I feel like you're feeling pressured to make a decision (based on deadline) and I just don't believe this is a decision that should be rushed at all. I do feel that education is hugely important, but I do know it goes more smoothly for some than others. That doesn't mean you won't eventually finish your education, but I do know from experience that it is more difficult to go back when you're older. FWIW, both my husband and I went to school for a second time after our DD was born. Each of us made a change in careers and we were 26-years-old! I am glad you have involved your family in the decision-making process and I hope you make the decision that works best for you. Good luck to you! Please keep us updated.</p>
<p>p.s. I don't pretend to know a lot about the military, but if you stayed in school and graduated, am I mistaken in thinking you would enter the military at a higher rank?</p>
<p>EXCELLENT advice from navy2010.</p>
<p>
[quote]
if you stayed in school and graduated, am I mistaken in thinking you would enter the military at a higher rank
[/quote]
One doesn't necessarily enter the military at a higher rank simply because they have a degree. For example, a BA history degree might not qualify one to become an officer in the Air Force but some other degrees might and the same degree might be treated differently by different branches. This area should be considered by anyone contemplating entering the military in addition to the points raised by other posters. Definitely don't assume that any BA degree is means entering as an officer or a higher rank.</p>
<p>Even if you've grown somewhat weary of college thus far, consider why you want to join the AF and what types of jobs you'd be interested in while in the AF. They have the full range of jobs that you'd find in civilian life and more from pilots and mechanics to lawyers and accountants to managers and cooks to engineers and intelligence specialists to everything in between. If you narrow down what you want to do in the AF consider focusing yourself in that direction in college (if applicable), complete your degree with your new-found focus, and then take a fresh look at the military. If you're considering making the military a career, check to see if the degree you'd obtain would qualify you to enter as an officer as opposed to enlisted. There's nothing wrong with being enlisted but for a career, an officer is paid more and has a number of other perks.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The military has a 15-20% higher average of those with at least HS diplomas vs. the general population.
[/quote]
This assertion has been discussed elsewhere ad nauseum - it is based on a study by the Heritage Foundation, which has a conservative agenda, using debatable statistical analysis (I did not say wrong - I said debatable), using, most problematically, data from 2003. From the AP: "In 2006, the number of traditional high school graduates recruited by the Army dropped to 73 percent, from 84 percent a year earlier, according to National Priorities Project, a research group that analyzes federal data. The goal is 90 percent high school graduates — a benchmark last met in 2004."</p>
<p>Perhaps the saddest aspect of this discussion is that any of us would caution well-intended young men and women who are willing to risk their lives to defend our country that their CinC and his advisors have been and may continue to be reckless and incompetent.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice everyone!</p>
<p>
[quote]
First, before there can be answers, there needs to be questions...
So my first question to you is how old are you now?
Where have your experiences led you thus far?
Where do you see your life going?
Do you have a plan?
Have you explored all the options available to get there?
Where do your interests lie?
What do you enjoy doing?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Having just turned 20, I'm still not sure what I'm going to do with my life. Right now, I'm working on a Business degree, and truthfully I have no great love for the subject. I chose this field mainly because of the marketability and job opportunities that are opened up with a Business degree. My plan right now? Well to be honest, as you mentioned before, I'm flying by the seat of my pants. Hell, when I first entered college I originally wanted to be a History or some sort of social science major, but the job market is pretty thin for those areas, so I went with Business instead. The Air Force is something I've always seriously considered though, I would've enlisted right out of highschool but I got talked out of it. </p>
<p>I did what several others have recommended and contacted the AFROTC detachment at my school, apparently it's not too late for me to start. I will have to sign a contract since I will have to enroll in the two year program and attend a 5 week field training program for the two years I missed. So they're looking to see if I actually qualify to enroll in the two year program. I'm going to see where this goes, I might actually go this route if I am accepted. I will have to put up with two more years of mostly inane classes, but at least I'll have a goal to reach for.</p>
<p>
[quote]
p.s. I don't pretend to know a lot about the military, but if you stayed in school and graduated, am I mistaken in thinking you would enter the military at a higher rank?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If I were to enlist right now, I would become an E-3 or an Airman 1st class after finishing basic. But to become an officer right out of college, you would have to attend OCS or OTS, whatever it's called.</p>
<p>As for dangerous hotspots like Iraq and Afghanistan, I honestly wouldn't mind if I were deployed to these places.</p>
<p>You got some good advice here so far. If I were you, I would weigh the opinions of those with actual experience more than those with only academic opinions. I would not let political opinions of some posters dissuade you too much. Just think of how many administrations you would see if you were a career military person, as well as how many different policies you would see within each administration. You can't serve a person, you have to want to serve your country. </p>
<p>As I said, I know three guys in AF, all entering via different routes (AFROTC, enlisting after a degree and enlisting without a degree but planning to study via AF.) The AFROTC guy will become an officer. The one with the degree is getting military experience in order to meet his post-military goals in law enforcement. The third guy sounds a bit like you: he went to college for a year and did pretty well, but it just wasn't right for him. He is much happier in the AF as a mechanic and now thinks he may have the mindset to study mechanical engineering via the AF. I also know a fourth young man who has a civilian pilot's license who aspires to become a pilot in the AF after he graduates from high school. You have heard from career military people as well as their family members. You might also check out the CC forums for the military academies to get more opinions on military life. </p>
<p>Still, let me repeat my original point that you may be in the wrong major. Maybe you should roll the dice and study history. Or maybe you would be happier in a hands-on craftsman job. Or, maybe you always wanted to be in the AF and you are just passing time in college. While I am very glad my son is happy and successful in college, my friends who have sons in the military are happy that they have a plan for their lives and are making strides to meet their goals too. As a mom, I would recommend that you talk with your parents. They probably know more than you think!</p>
<p>raimius, we must be looking at different stat books, but I note your choice of words, comparing the military to the "general population". The latter includes many folks not eligible for service such as seniors etc. If you compared like to like, you would find a different picture. </p>
<p>Rather, the military in the past few decades has become increasingly southern, rural and evangelical. </p>
<p>On the latter note, one might note the controversy the past few years at the air force academy over christian prayer and such. And recently, some of these "star generals" have been called on the carpet for illegally promoting evangelical causes. </p>
<p>I´m sorry I don´t have time to research my positions more and add citations. I´m on vacation in SA dealing with slow internet connections and Spanish keyboards. Frankly, I´m surprised some of these towns (such as one at 13,000 feet, no typo) even have decent internet.</p>
<p>FWIW, I too admire those who serve and thank them for defending our country. But, as one active in veterans affairs, I also know how damaging the experience is for some veterans, and not just those army folks blown up but surviving in Iraq. </p>
<p>This is not a decision to be made lightly. </p>
<ul>
<li>Joining a service is NOT like taking a civilian job.<br></li>
<li>You CANNOT quit without highly adverse consequences.<br></li>
<li>There is NO trial period.</li>
</ul>
<p>Better that you take a year abroad and study anything to get yourself into another, more positive environment to "find yourself". Have you had a job? What have you done for the past two summers? I concur that joining the military isn't an internship to try things out. Truthfully, you sound depressed from your writing. Suicide by military isn't a wise decision nor is it honorable.</p>
<p>I hope OP is noting the terms used in this thread. For instance, referring to "the military", when OP is considering the Air Force.</p>
<p>I find it ironic that folks would be all for 'gap years' and against devoting a few years to service in any branch of US armed forces. Is this out of ignorance of today's military, or a form of elitism? Read any instructor's account of the vets who returned from WWII to attend college. They were far and away more motivated than the typical college student.</p>
<p>Many study or serve abroad programs are in fact service opportunities. I didn't say gap year, I said study abroad. I fail to see how that is a gap year. When is the AirForce not a military insitution? I love your parsing. Armed Forces.....hmmm. This isn't 1950 and FWIW there are a couple of IRAQ War vets in my current class.</p>