So My Friend Lied...And Got Into Her First Choice

Pre-College Issues High School Life
1

<p>This isn't necessarily regarding college admissions- but rather the questbridge scholarship. She lied, saying that she worked 30 hr/week (when she actually only worked less than 30 hours one summer). She, also, lied and listed a few clubs (and positions) that she never had...and she got the scholarship. She didn't even have the required recommendation sent.</p>

<p>I didn't lie. I didn't get it, or I don't think so at least. They said they would contact winners by the 20th. I am doing something else this summer anyways, but I feel TERRIBLE. I mean, what if I wanted to do this? What about all the people that wanted to do this? What about the people that didn't lie and didn't get in? </p>

<p>Ugh. She feels NO guilt either. >_></p>

<p>Sorry...This is a bit of a rant.</p>

2

<p>If you really feel so strongly about it, and if you guys really aren't "friends" ask questbridge to ask her to produce evidence of her activites.</p>

3

<p>Tell questbridge. It's simply not right.</p>

4

<p>i don't agree with the above two posters. tell your friend that you that you do not support what she did, and that you are disappointed in her. then give her some time, and the message will sink in. she's just caught up in the pressure and using "realpolitik" (lol do you guys use that in english?) to meet her goals.</p>

<p>but don't (seriously, don't) betray a friend like that.</p>

5

<p>Optimization, you've helped me out before, so I'm going to help you out a little here..</p>

<p>"This isn't necessarily regarding college admissions- but rather the questbridge scholarship. She lied, saying that she worked 30 hr/week (when she actually only worked less than 30 hours one summer). She, also, lied and listed a few clubs (and positions) that she never had...and she got the scholarship. She didn't even have the required recommendation sent."</p>

<p>This is what really bugs me about QuestBridge, too. Apparently some people can get in without doing the required recommendation, as long as they are first-generation or are a minority. I'm 100% sure I would not have been picked if I hadn't done all the requirements, simply because I'm Asian and am not first-generation.</p>

<p>"I didn't lie. I didn't get it, or I don't think so at least. They said they would contact winners by the 20th. I am doing something else this summer anyways, but I feel TERRIBLE. I mean, what if I wanted to do this? What about all the people that wanted to do this? What about the people that didn't lie and didn't get in?"</p>

<p>I was informed yesterday, the 21st. Contact QuestBridge if you haven't received an email yet. They inform both groups of people -- accepted and rejected. It is worth your time to contact them and ask them yourself.</p>

<p>And I know it sounds unfair that your friend got in by lying on her application.
chriscap, how is it betraying a friend if you tell on them? That's not being a snitch. It's called doing the right thing. Contact QuestBridge and tell them that your friend lied. It's not fair that she's taking the spot of someone else who deserved it more.</p>

<p>Don't listen to people who say you are betraying your friend. Your friend betrayed you in the first place because she is doing something ethically wrong. Friends don't let friends do completely wrong things like this.</p>

6

<p>Betray her. People like that don't deserve to get ahead. She stole a spot from a kid that deserved it more. By "comforting her" you are also doing an injustice to that one kid who would've gotten in if it weren't for her.</p>

7

<p>she needs a chance to do the right thing herself; you don't need to do it for her. again, she's just caught up in things and doesn't even realize what she's doing wrong.</p>

8

<p>also, why are you reading her application? and do you know every single little detail about what she's done?</p>

<p>often they ask for "hours per week" and "weeks per year" in the work experience section. perhaps you just read the first part and ignored the latter.</p>

<p>as for the "positions" she has held, maybe she just formalized what she actually did do. it's not always "lying", but more an art of "selling" what you did do.</p>

9

<p>you really would be making a mistake if you reported her at this point.</p>

10

<p>Don't listen to chriscap. It's not "selling" what you do if you didn't really do that activity in the first place or held those specific positions. It's not "selling" when there's no product. </p>

<p>I think the only right thing to do is to report her. She's taken away a spot from someone who deserved it more. And if she's not going to do it herself (the OP says she expresses no remorse), it is up to you to do it. Let's be fair -- not a lot of people are remorseful about lying on an application when they've won a scholarship they didn't deserve.</p>

11

<p>murkywater, do you have many friends?</p>

<p>Give her a chance. college admissions and scholarship selection are FULL of cheating, unfair advantages, "connections", corruption, etc. This is just another case, and honestly, by the time the report is filed, the case investigated, and the acceptance revoked, no other "qualified candidate" will be offered admission.</p>

<p>Also, for starters, it's good that the friend was honest about (potentially) cheating. Now it's just a matter of snapping the friend into reality. Here's a few conditions which need to be met BEFORE you even consider reporting her.</p>

<p>1) You need to be sure that the cheating was significant. Really, really significant. Not what I mentioned above. Again, there's nothing wrong with glorifying your accomplishments to the extent that they sound good but aren't "selling without a product"
2) You need to have had a few SERIOUS talks with her
3) She must still have not come to the realization that she did something wrong
4) You have to have accepted that this is a common occurrence, and that maybe this "friend" isn't the kind of person you want to be around anymore.</p>

<p>So, I guess if all that holds, then report her.</p>

<p>But again, murkywater, there is NOTHING wrong with formalizing accomplishments. I don't support cheating. Nor did I ever lie or cheat during the college admissions process. But I do think it's more than fair to formalize things to the extent that a "buddy" might not quite understand what you mean when they read your application.</p>

12

<p>If your friend cheated, and you know of this, then it is your responsibility to tell questbridge. Forget being buddies with her... it's simply not fair to others. It doesn't matter anymore if anyone else gets the scholarship. Your friend needs to learn a serious lesson. You'd be doing her a favor in the long run. I'm sure that her first choice university would not want her, if they found out about her dishonesty.</p>

13

<p>"murkywater, do you have many friends?"</p>

<p>Yes, I have quite a few friends! Except none of them have lied on an application for a scholarship. Don't attack me just because I care about ethics and you don't. It's very clear that it's okay for someone to cheat just because "everyone else is doing it". Jump on the bandwagon arguments are silly and are riddled with logical fallacies.</p>

<p>"Give her a chance. college admissions and scholarship selection are FULL of cheating, unfair advantages, "connections", corruption, etc. This is just another case, and honestly, by the time the report is filed, the case investigated, and the acceptance revoked, no other "qualified candidate" will be offered admission."</p>

<p>She doesn't need a chance. She lied in order to get a scholarship. Someone else out there is deprived of a scholarship they could have received just because some girl decided that she was more important than someone else -- so important that she needed to lie about her accomplishments. If she did this in a college application, she could have admission rescinded. Lying in court is called perjury. If she lies in a scholarship application, she should face the consequences. There is no "chance". She lied, sorry!</p>

<p>"Also, for starters, it's good that the friend was honest about (potentially) cheating. Now it's just a matter of snapping the friend into reality. Here's a few conditions which need to be met BEFORE you even consider reporting her."</p>

<p>Sure, you can do this. But if she doesn't listen, then rat her out. It's not fair otherwise.</p>

<p>"1) You need to be sure that the cheating was significant. Really, really significant. Not what I mentioned above. Again, there's nothing wrong with glorifying your accomplishments to the extent that they sound good but aren't "selling without a product"</p>

<p>It doesn't matter if it was significant or not. It doesn't change the fact that she lied. </p>

<p>"2) You need to have had a few SERIOUS talks with her"</p>

<p>I agree with this, but again, if she doesn't listen, contact QuestBridge.</p>

<p>"3) She must still have not come to the realization that she did something wrong"</p>

<p>This may sadly come after she's been ratted out.</p>

<p>"4) You have to have accepted that this is a common occurrence, and that maybe this "friend" isn't the kind of person you want to be around anymore."</p>

<p>Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it's okay for her to do it. QB looks for outstanding applicants and I'm sure they don't want a liar. Don't be friends with her if you want, but don't let her get away with lying on a scholarship that someone else deserved.</p>

<p>"But again, murkywater, there is NOTHING wrong with formalizing accomplishments. I don't support cheating. Nor did I ever lie or cheat during the college admissions process. But I do think it's more than fair to formalize things to the extent that a "buddy" might not quite understand what you mean when they read your application."</p>

<p>Lying is not formalizing. According to the OP, it's clear that the applicant LIED about things. She didn't "package" herself; SHE LIED. I'm not sure you understand the difference between LYING and FORMALIZING. The difference is that she's not telling the truth with one, and the other is that she's essentially telling the truth but perhaps presenting it in a different way. AGAIN, I will repeat, like the OP said, SHE LIED. Read the first post -- you clearly are ignoring what the OP has said.</p>

<p>Anyways, tell on her if you want. Or listen to chriscap, who thinks formalizing = lying. Wow, I didn't know CCers would go to great lengths to defend cheating. Sorry, it's cheating and there's no "nice" way to say it.</p>

14

<p>wow, capitalism at its best.</p>

<p>i'm not gonna argue this any more, it's obvious where both of us stand.</p>

<p>and i don't think it's fair (for either of us, nor the OP) to continue arguing this until we understand how good the friendship is, what the potential is for "talking it out" and how bad the "cheating" was. we're not even sure she cheated.</p>

<p>anyway, time for grey's anatomy. :)</p>

15

<p>report her...don't let her get away with cheating. it's for her own good
although, maybe warn her first..maybe she'll see that it was wrong?</p>

16

<p>Before you do anything, you should be absolutely sure that she cheated. Is there any possibility that some of the "positions" she had were kept private?
I am against cheating as well, but acting without knowing the full story can be dangerous, especially when dealing with something so serious.</p>

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<p>yep fully agreed lhslexingtonorg.</p>

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<p>Wow. So many differing strong opinions. I'm not sure what to do. I don't think telling her I'm disappointed would work because I have told her that in regards to other things, and she doesn't really seem to care. Her sister got into MIT with a little fibbing (I don't know much about everything she put or didn't put), and she says that it doesn't really matter.</p>

<p>I don't know whether or not to tell Questbridge. Truthfully, I never even thought of doing that until you guys mentioned it. I don't know. I guess I have to think about it. </p>

<p>Chriscap - She let me read her application. She actually asked me to. I do agree that she needs to the right thing herself, but will she? I don't know. How would I make a mistake if I reported her? Also, the work experience section was asking for both of those, but asked the person to specify which it was (per week or per year). She specifically put hours per week. She didn't hide it from me, but she didn't say it until I pointed it out. She told me when I pointed out that she put the wrong information...In regards to the positions, I know she is lying. I know because, for instance, she put that she was the Founder and President of a club that I am the Co-Founder and Co-President of. She has never come to one of the meetings (except the first one). It's not like she's lying to me. She told me what she lied on, and I am heavily involved in some of the things she put down, so I know that she is not a part of them. (That's not to say she isn't a part of anything just 3/4 of the things she put down.)</p>

<p>I agree. Someone lost a position that deserved it. What I really don't understand is how she can possibly not care? I mean...I don't understand why people don't care...I would deteriorate. I don't know...</p>

<p>It's a tough decision, and I will keep talking to my friend and explain to her my distaste...and yeah.</p>

<p>Thanks for all of your help. I'll let you guys know what I end up doing (if anything).</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
I agree. Someone lost a position that deserved it. What I really don't understand is how she can possibly not care? I mean...I don't understand why people don't care...I would deteriorate. I don't know...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hobbes: People are inherently evil and money, power and sex motivate them.</p>

<p>Milki: Society makes people more "humane" by creating material connections.</p>

<p>Hobbes + Milki = Definition of Human.</p>

<p>Human - Milki = Hobbes</p>

<p>Human - Milki = Your Friend (and her actions)</p>

<p>Hobbes = Your Friend.</p>

<p>LOL, I just felt like typing stuff in Equation Format.</p>

20

<p>idk, i'm kind of in the same mindset as your friend when it comes to cheating/lying. throughout highschool i've cheated, lied, BS'd conuclers, assistant principals, the principal, sold out others to get ahead(but never snitched on a friend). do i like doing it? i guess not. do i feel even the slightest bit of guilt or remorse? not even close, and would do it exactly the same over again.</p>

<p>"by any means necessary"</p>