<p>pan1956, may I ask if your child is going to a boarding school this year, or do you have one in a BS right now?</p>
<p>With all due respect watertester, how does that information move this discussion forward?</p>
<p>I wanted to know as a parent what you would say to your incoming or current boarding student. That's something I am pondering as a parent.</p>
<p>One completed school and one is on a waitlist. My children know that my love for them is total and that it is their happiness that is of the utmost importance. They know that wherever they go to school, the school bears responsibility for their safety. They know that they are to immediately report any threats to their personal safety, whether the threat is physical or psychological. Above all, their confidence is based upon their firm knowledge that their parents love them.</p>
<p>Pan1956, I don't know if your child that has completed school went to a boarding school, but it sounds to me that you are so concerned about the hazing problem you may never send your child to a boarding school. We didn't apply to Groton, but what's happened there worries me just as much. Do you know in what schools hazing is a particularly bad problem? Your chid didn't apply to Groton did he?</p>
<p>Now I am bickering. I have a son in bs and yes, I count on the school to be a parent in my absence, to keep him safe and to steer him in the right direction. I also have kids in public school, and my expectations are the same, just on a shorter time frame. I am not sure that parents who pay for education are entitled to feel that their kids should be more safeguarded. But in general, I do know what this thread is about, really more about the non-class times.
zp</p>
<p>Watertester,
Adolescents being adolescents, I suspect that "hazing" exists to a greater or lesser extent everywhere. I do not have any hard data pertinent to where it happens more often. I suppose the individual schools are obligated to tell you. And no, we did not apply to Groton. Intuitively, I think the higher the sense of entitlement and privilege among the student body, the lower the level of tolerance for those who are perceived to be different. But that is just my intuition.</p>
<p>There is always a percentage of kids whose predilection is a little Lord of the Flies, but in most cases, if the School REALLY didn't want hazing on their campus, it would disappear.</p>
<p>A few points: </p>
<p>The incident at Groton took place in 2001....the culture that was at the school then may be very different now. </p>
<p>Most legal settlements are confidential....very standard no matter what type of allegation. Also, paying money to settle a case is NOT an admission of guilt. (I have worked at top law firms in NYC, so I do know what I am talking about on this matter.)</p>
<p>Hazing, drugs, sex, etc. will happen at all schools, public or private, boarding or day. The question that parents should be asking is not whether they happen, but how the school responds to them. For example, some students were expelled for drug dealing at the beginning of the school year at Andover. The good part was that (except for keeping names confidential, as required by law) the whole matter was dealt with in a very open way.</p>
<p>Massachusetts has strict state laws against hazing, and they are explained in the Andover rule book that all students and parents are given. I imagine similar descriptions are in the rule books of other schools as well.</p>
<p>I believe a prominent NE prep school expelled the grandson of Senator John Warner (schedued graduation speaker 2008) last winter for some misbehavior. Says somethin about equal treatment</p>
<p>Brooklyn,
Of course, everyone knows that an offer to settle does not constitute a "concession of guilt." Doctors malpractice insurance companies settle on their behalf all the time because that option is less costly than fighting the case. We all know that. But the point here is that a child SUSTAINED REPEATED EPISODES OF FORCED PHYSICAL ABUSE OF A SEXUAL NATURE while under the custody of a school charged with the responsibility for his welfare! Is that not alarming?????</p>
<p>Groton's board of trustees eventually pled guilty "to a charge that they failed to report a teenager's 1999 complaint that fellow students sexually assaulted him." Groton</a> trustees said to OK guilty plea - The Boston Globe. In Groton's defense, I would like to point out that the incidents in question happened a decade ago. Groton has a new headmaster. </p>
<p>At all schools, such things can happen. Some students are not worthy of trust. Scandal</a> at St. Paul's School When such things happen, the school's reaction is important. A bad situation can be made worse.</p>
<p>When it happens at a public school, it doesn't garner as much interest as the same incident would at an "elite prep school." This website lists many hazing incidents: High</a> School History of Hazing 1905-2008. Neither private nor public schools are immune to such incidents. Sports teams are frequently involved. </p>
<p>To put things into perspective, though, two years ago a student at Lincoln-Sudbury High School stabbed a fellow student to death in a bathroom. Public schools are not safer. Look at these figures, for the state of Massachusetts in 2002-2003: Student</a> Exclusions: School Year 200203 Information Services/Statistical Reports. Google "high school student stabbed".</p>
<p>pan1956: Everyone, especially teenagers, does NOT know that an offer to settle is NOT an admission of guilt.</p>
<p>I admit to not reading all the specific details of the incident...Yes, if as described, than it is unacceptable. I was not trying to make light of the incident. However, the first posting was from an article in 2001. It does seem a bit unfair to be judging a school based on what happened eight years ago.</p>
<p>And, as Periwinkle points out...if you Google "[insert name of elite school here] AND scandal" you will find many things.</p>
<p>The difference is that there exists between the parent sending a child to boarding school and the school an implicit agreement that the school will be responsible for the welfare, physical and psychological, of the child while on the premises. And as much as we emphasize the academic aspect of the relationship, it is tertiary to the first two. Without safety there is no learning. THERE IS NO SUCH AGREEMENT WHEN A CHILD IS SENT TO PUBLIC SCHOOL. And furthermore, an alternative interpretation of the data from Massachusetts may merely be that the public schools have gotten very efficient at excluding the bad apples.</p>
<p>And Brooklyn, you mention that "Massachusetts has strict laws against hazing and they are explained in the Andover rule book." Well, Groton is in Mass and those laws and that explanation did not help the kid at Groton.</p>
<p>mpicz an pan....that is just wrong-headed thinking. I have first-hand experience with a child who broke a major school rule (my own older child) who was on pretty much full fa. He was given another chance. There are also kids (from the same school) who are dismissed...including full pays. One of my son's classmates has a building named after him on the campus...sister not admitted.</p>
<p>Actually Pan, there IS such an agreement when children are sent to public school. My children are currently in public school and it lists as the very first student "right" in it's policy manual that children are entitled to "blah blah blah SAFE learning environment blah blah blah." Of course there are all kinds of other "rights", like the right to a rigorous and challenging curriculum based on latest research to are whisked aways as well.</p>
<p>I think one of the reasons so many families are willing to face the financial burden of private school is NOT so their children are free from hazing so much as because private schools tend to do a much better job as living up to their stated academic goals or treating children as individuals and recognizing their own potential.</p>
<p>Groton's board of trustees was charged with failing to file a report. They claim that they filed it orally. Their mistake was not filing a written report. No criminal charges were filed against the alleged perpetrators of the harassment. As everyone knows, my son applied to Groton this fall. My husband and I looked at all of this. The Boston Globe article really shed some light on this particular story. It seems as though this kid had an axe to grind about being DC'd for a practical joke of a homosexual nature. Though the administration may not have done everything that they could have done, my husband and I felt that the fact that they did not prevent this accusor from making his claim during roll call on REVISIT DAY, no less; said a great deal. The other students pleaded with him to not do it, but no one actually prevented him. </p>
<p>Look, there is always so much more to and "scandal" than what we are privvy too. My husband is a teacher. He was once accused of assaulting a student for placing his hand on the student's shoulder from behind, leaning over and telling said student to put away a "naughty" magazine that he was looking at. Of course, all accusations were dropped within 24 hours, but what if the media had gotten wind of the story?</p>
<p>I am not saying that horrible things can't happen at boarding schools or that there was nothing improper in the Groton incident. What every parent needs to do is to instill enough confidence in their children so that they will be less susceptible to "following." When we learned of the Groton incident, we had to decide whether our son would still pursue an application. We were very concerned. Then we did what Periwinkle suggested and found stories from other schools that were even more horrifying. Then....we sat down with our son and had a heart to heart about what he would do if he were a victim of hazing or sexual assault. (Something that every parent should do, even if going to day or public school....actually, ESPECIALLY if going to public because I think it's more common in public). The victim at Groton waited 2 YEARS to report anything. Why? This only allowed for the possibility of more victims, which my son concluded was intensely immoral and cowardly.</p>
<p>There was a case at NMH were a word was CARVED INTO THE SKIN OF A STUDENT!!!!!! I believe that the student was suspected of being homosexual and that was the catalyst. This is pure HATE.</p>
<p>The world has a lot of hate in it. But overall, I still content that there is more tolerance, understanding and openness among the BS crowd than the public. The key is teaching one's children to recognize it, reject it, and CHANGE it.</p>
<p>Since sexual preference emerges during this time period, I think it is especially important that teens feel safe in accepting differences. For all of the ugliness in Groton's scandal 8 years ago, there was also an incident this year that I don't believe got any press. I read about it on their website. It is an example of one of the ways that schools can address these kinds of issues:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Professional Actors Give Performance of 'Bash' in Black Box Theatre </p>
<p>On Wednesday the 22nd of October, professional actors Kelly Van Zile and Kurt Uy gave a performance in Groton School's blackbox theater of Neil LaBute's "A Gaggle of Saints", a one-act play that is part of a trilogy called Bash: Latter Day Plays. In "A Gaggle of Saints", the main characters are two college students named John and Sue. The play is told in a narrative fashion, each character recounting the details of a fancy party which the couple attended. The story seems to be perfectly simple and banal until John, Sue, and their friends run into two gay lovers in Central Park. After that point, the play takes on a much more sinister and darker tone, as John and his other guy friends ultimately return to the park and savagely assault one of the men, ultimately leaving him for dead. </p>
<p>Neil LaBute's "Bash" trilogy examines morality in modern-day America, and raises questions that are perhaps uncomfortable for some to discuss. After the performance was over, the upper school audience was given the opportunity to ask questions and discuss their thoughts on each character's actions and persona. "A Gaggle of Saints" was an extremely thought-provoking and unique performance which should give Groton School students food for thought as they examine the morality of their own actions in their daily lives. Ms. Zile and Mr. Uy also stayed for four days following their performance to lead workshops on performing Shakespeare and techniques of stage combat with the current cast of Groton School's "A Midsummer Night's Dream".
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am sorry that this post is so long and rambling. I have had several people ask me what my "take" was on this and I hope that I have expressed myself clearly (though I doubt I have!) You know, you can fill in the blank with whatever school you want and something horrifying will come up. I still contend that children are less likely to confront hatred in a BS environment than in public school, but feel free to disagree!</p>
<p>The prep school world is small; a problem crops up at one and all are painted with the same brush - which actually does make sense because they all face the same problems: lots of kids together in a pressure-cooker environment. Administrations walking a fine line to let students grow to adult, while guiding, teaching, but allowing appropriate freedom. I do not envy these schools. </p>
<p>As much as school try to follow an even set of rules, punishments for equal crimes do vary. How many examples of staff kids, trustee kids, athletic scholarships kids getting off with a slap on the wrist, while others are suspended! 11 kids were caught on the roof of pre-prep headmaster's house, smoking Maryjane. Punishment ranged from "don't come back" to a leaving early for spring break. Parent negotiation and student being coached to show appropriate contrition seemed key.</p>
<p>But because of the smallness of the BS world, as soon as one has a problem, they all step up prevention. You can count on Groton being very safe for the next 5 years. </p>
<p>PS the school that says it has no problems is the one to worry about - they are resting on laurel or lying. Every school has problem of some kind because they deal with teenagers. Its how they deal with the problems that matters.</p>
<p>Same gung ho attorney who many reasonable people believe wrongly prosecuted the Fells Acre Day Care center people in the late 80' - victims of the era's daycare witch hunts.
Talk about a travesty of justice! The word subterranean comes to mind, at least it is one word that wont get my post deleted!</p>
<p>Well Sadie, when your kid gets sexually molested fifteen times at a school to which you are paying tens of thousands yearly, I guess you just want to get a gung ho attorney. I wonder if other parents under similar circumstances would rather a passive wet paper bag for an attorney.</p>
<p>So I guess you know what happened.</p>